The Fall of Lordaeron can this be true?

[Steampunkette]

...I can't even feel bad for them in that case, when they finally go mad by the whispers.

Kinda, yup! They're flirting with disaster.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

But i'm still not sure how that would impact silvermoon and exodar.

I'm not sure about Exodar but I have faith that Adon will hold the line.

[Deleted]

No one gets Lordaeron, which is a technical victory for Sylvanas.

[Sigxy]

No one gets Lordaeron, which is a technical victory for Sylvanas.

In what way? It wasn't belonging to the Alliance, so they didn't lose anything but some soldiers. Sylvanas not only lost some of her own soldiers, but lost her own capital. '.'

[iamthedevil]

I'm sorry, what? Calia is the rightful heir to Lordaeron. Sylvanas has no claim.

You're no longer the rightful anything when you get conquered. That doesn't really even apply here since forsaken are from Lordaeron, how can you conquer your own land? On top of that, Calia doesn't want anything to do with it.

[Deleted]

In what way? It wasn't belonging to the Alliance, so they didn't lose anything but some soldiers. Sylvanas not only lost some of her own soldiers, but lost her own capital. '.'

I said technical not absolute victory. The Alliance did not get their precious city back. Sylvanas gave them the finger. Anduin will probably have a cry somewhere.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

what we know, the world map will not change for now, if blizz plans doing any changes to the world map (aka cataclysm) its gonna be next expac and dont forget that the horde still has silvermoon in the north so they can still launch a counter attack later on

They are changing it. There's going to be a bronze dragon switch like every other zone that's changed since Cata (bar Vale).

[Steampunkette]

I said technical not absolute victory. The Alliance did not get their precious city back. Sylvanas gave them the finger. Anduin will probably have a cry somewhere.

That's... not really a thing?

What you're looking at is a Pyrrhic Victory for the Alliance. They conquered Undercity, and removed the immediate threat of the Forsaken by pushing their lines back. The supply lines for the force in Silverpine now must reach from Hillsbrad and Andorhal instead of from the Undercity. It was a success for the Alliance, but a costly one with little to show for it, in the end.

Sylvanas destroying the thing the Alliance wanted before letting them have it isn't a victory of any kind, but it could be viewed as a spiteful loss? From what we've seen, though, she used the Plague and the Fighting to get her people in the Undercity proper more time to escape (The headings of the Horde Version of the Scenario). So it wasn't even an issue of Spite so much as setting fire to the bridge you crossed to keep people from following you.

[Sigxy]

I said technical not absolute victory. The Alliance did not get their precious city back. Sylvanas gave them the finger. Anduin will probably have a cry somewhere.

I'm not sure why "Anduin" who was born and raised in Stormwind would feel sad over not getting a city that was... never his.

If anything I think a lot of former citizens of Lordaeron (the living ones that is) are now happy that it's no longer used by the undead.

So it wasn't even an issue of Spite so much as setting fire to the bridge you crossed to keep people from following you.

Sylvanas is pretty good at that stuff apparently, thinking back to Warcraft 3.

[Steampunkette]

I'm not sure why "Anduin" who was born and raised in Stormwind would feel sad over not getting a city that was... never his.

If anything I think a lot of former citizens of Lordaeron (the living ones that is) are now happy that it's no longer used by the undead.



Sylvanas is pretty good at that stuff apparently, thinking back to Warcraft 3.

She REALLY is.

And it's also the latest in my little scrapbook of moments that show Sylvanas lies to everyone, including herself, about how she feels about the Forsaken and the World. She's like Dexter, y'know?

If she didn't care about the Forsaken, saw them only as arrows in her quiver, a shield between herself and death, she wouldn't have been fighting at the wall while evacuating them. She wouldn't have ghosted into the Siege Tower to fight against the Alliance risking life and limb while her people were right there, willing to die for her. She'd have sacrificed as many as was needed while making her own escape.

The CLOSEST example to that ever happening is when Vol'jin dropped. She sounded the retreat, grabbed his dying body, and hauled ass out of the area while her people fought and died to cover her retreat... but it wasn't a retreat to save herself, alone! She was -trying- to save Vol'jin, the Warchief. The man she respected but tells herself she didn't care about. For him she left her people on the Broken Shore, performing a fighting withdrawal to save him.

Unreliable Narrators are the best!

[Raugnaut]

Nope, there are no direct statements about the Ren'dorei's numbers, so don't invent numbers please.

If anything, given the fact that there are several Sin'dorei Scholars and Quel'dorei Wayfarers in Telogrus willing to go through the transformation process to become Ren'dorei, it would seem that their faction is actually rising in numbers.

No matter what though, the total numbers the Ren'dorei can field won't EVER be what the Sin'dorei could.

The number of Quel'dorei is naturally smaller then the number of Sin'dorei. Those willing to become Void Elves will be an even smaller minority.

As for the Sin'dorei? Given how the Horde/Alliance are getting ready to go to war, the number of Sin'dorei willing to become Ren'dorei will DRASTICALLY shrink, considering that at the time, they would become traitors to the Sin'dorei, rather then the current situation of them being curious, and searching for a different source of mana besides the Sunwell.

In terms of overall war potential, the Alliance REALLY got the short-end of the stick with the allied races.

Horde - Highmountain Tauren, consisting of several larger tribes. Includes the Drogbar, unless they remove themselves from the Highmountain Alliance. Basically, a decently size nation, who have excellent physical characteristics to allow them to dominate the frontline compared to other races. In addition, they have access to the entirety of Highmountain, and all the resources in it. They ARE a completely new faction for the Horde.

Nightbourne (Or, if you want to be all fancy, Shal'dorei) are pretty damn advanced magically, with powerful constructs, and access to numerous leylines. While they DID let the Nightwell die, the making of a new one, or a lesser one, is a pretty solid possibility. They have, however, just got out of a civil war, so they can't afford the manpower that Highmountain can. Also, complete access to Suramar, and all of it's mana-rich resources. Also a completely new faction.

The alliance?

Lightforged Draenei - Extremely experienced warriors, with access to a military-based Naaru vessel. However, their overall numbers are small, and they can only recruit from other Draenei - We have no clue whether or not Lightforged Draenei give birth to lightforged children, or if they are just regular Draenei. Thus, they can be considered as a HIGHLY elite strike force, and a threat to be worried about, but they can't provide the raw resources and manpower that is neccessary to win prolonged wars.

And then, we have, the Ren'dorei. Who are BOTH a double-edged sword, since having to keep the void under control is NOT a one-time deal, but a continual effort, AND, like the Lightforged, do not provide any raw resources/manpower that the Alliance does not have access to. Unlike the Lightforged, however, the Ren'dorei have NOT experienced tens of thousands of years of warfare, NOR do they have access to an amazing, flying, mobile warfortress.


So, yea. The alliance got the short-end of the stick in terms of allied races. Lightforged Draenei, which are great. Void Elves, which are... lacking. Dark Iron, which are... already a part of the alliance? So they just get the Vindicaar, and badass fighters.

Horde? Two LARGE, developed factions, both of whom have just got done experiencing warfare. The northern AND southern portions of the Broken Isles. Unless the Alliance can recruit the cursed Night Elven spirits (Unknown if they can venture out of Azshara), or the Valajar (Given Sylvanas's actions in Stormhiem, if the Vrykul are going to join anyone, they will join the Alliance), the Horde basically gets almost an entire continent.

Not counting the Zandalari, one of the oldest empires in Azeroth, and all the resources they hold.

Here's to hoping the Alliance get Kul'tirans quick.

[Kithelle]

Does this really mean we take back lordaeron, i mean from what the map showed it really looks like we cut the horde off right in the middle. meaning there will be no way for them too get "lore wase" supply or troops too that place.

Nope...devs cock tease the Alliance then fucks them up the ass.

They take the city but Sylvanas dumps the plague and escapes like a cartoon villain, but Horde takes it back because like I said, the devs like to fuck over the Alliance.

[Steampunkette]

Nope...devs cock tease the Alliance then fucks them up the ass.

They take the city but Sylvanas dumps the plague and escapes like a cartoon villain, but Horde takes it back because like I said, the devs like to fuck over the Alliance.

The Horde doesn't take it back.

It's not a player city after BFA Launches. It's a wasteland.

NEITHER side gets it.

Maybe by the end of BFA the Horde will get it back, or Calia will step up and lead the efforts to cleanse and claim it for the Alliance and lead a second Human Kingdom in the Alliance (Before she marries Anduin to unite them).

But the Horde doesn't get it back. They'll probably be able to talk to a Bronze Dragon for time-traveling to the Old zone but... that's about it.

[Raugnaut]

Sure... But are they refugees who are living in Stormwind some 20 years later, or have they taken up citizenship in Stormwind?

If the latter, they forgo claim to their homes in Lordaeron, having chosen to bend the knee to a distant king.

Of course, if they joined Calia Menethil in a march on Lordaeron to take the city, history would remember them as heroes reclaiming what was stolen from them. But if they died fighting the Forsaken they'd be labeled dissidents attempting to overthrow the "True" queen of Lordaeron.

It's all a lovely mess!

Which, going by Blizzard, won't be addressed for another 2 expansions, if at all.

Blizz may be good at designing games, but their storytelling, especially attention to detail? Anything but.

[Kithelle]

I said technical not absolute victory. The Alliance did not get their precious city back. Sylvanas gave them the finger. Anduin will probably have a cry somewhere.

You must really have the hots for Anduin the way you're trying to portray him as a sensitive emotional man when he never shed a single tear. I bet you really want to hold him, kiss him, and tell him everything will be alright.

[8bithamster]

Ok, but i would stop people to pull stupid numbers like '10' or '20' out of nowhere. I will agree that the Ren'dorei's population is 'small' (but it's rising, actually). But that doesn't mean that they are just 10, that's just ridiculous and defamatory.

Defamatory... About pixels. Are you sure? And please provide your numbers. Because if you can't your statements are equally as silly.

Also.. Treating them like they're a real race. Lol

[Kithelle]

The Horde doesn't take it back.

It's not a player city after BFA Launches. It's a wasteland.

NEITHER side gets it.

Maybe by the end of BFA the Horde will get it back, or Calia will step up and lead the efforts to cleanse and claim it for the Alliance and lead a second Human Kingdom in the Alliance (Before she marries Anduin to unite them).

But the Horde doesn't get it back. They'll probably be able to talk to a Bronze Dragon for time-traveling to the Old zone but... that's about it.

Then why has everyone been so insistent that for months the Horde will get it back? You do know that the Undead can still survive there?

The Alliance loses it...and are forced to fall back...they lose it...they get nothing...unlike the Horde.

[Varodoc]

Defamatory... About pixels. Are you sure?

Then why are you even discussing the population numbers of miserable pixels?

And please provide your numbers.

I can't, as I have not provided any number at all.

However, there can't be only 10 Ren'dorei, that is factually false, you can just count the number of Ren'dorei NPCs in Telogrus, which is more than 10.

[Deleted]

But is it known yet where the Forsaken will go when the Undercity is lost/gone?

[Steampunkette]

Then why has everyone been so insistent that for months the Horde will get it back? You do know that the Undead can still survive there?

The Alliance loses it...and are forced to fall back...they lose it...they get nothing...unlike the Horde.

The Alliance loses Darnassus and then kicks the Forsaken out of Undercity. No one lives in either location after the destruction.

The Alliance RECLAIMS Gilneas. Or at least uses it as a staging point for the Arathi Warfront (It was mentioned in passing during Blizzcon).

People are adamant the Horde will retake Lordaeron for 2 reasons:

1) Faction Pride. Alliance Fanboys think the Horde is favored so they'll get to reclaim their things and leave the Alliance with nothing boo hoo. While Horde fanboys think they'll make a big startling sweep to change the balance of power and take Lordaeron back to update it into a true horde city. With Spikes.

2) The Forsaken are capable of living in the Blighted Lands.

But. Big huge smelly but: It's indefensible. Unless Arathi falls to the Horde there's no reasonable way they could rebuild Lordaeron's defenses and retake it while under Alliance Attack. This is not speculation: This is what the Devs have said.

The Alliance loses Darnassus, the Horde loses Undercity. The Alliance uses Gilneas to reinforce Stromgarde to keep the Horde from pushing their forces South.

Now in the last line of your post, you say that the Horde gains something... what does the Horde Gain?

- - - Updated - - -

But is it known yet where the Forsaken will go when the Undercity is lost/gone?

Nope. Nor where the Nelves go when Darnassus burns.