Tinker Class Concept 2018 (long)

[Projectmars]

So how do you ride in a mount if you're already in a mech?

[Broken Fox]

[Deleted]

Appreciate your effort but no. The whole tinker possibility is just meh, no matter the approach.

[Teriz]

Tank talents are complete. Go to this website and scroll down to user-made talent grids and click Siegecrafter Tinker Talents.

BTW: My vision of the Siegebreaker talent:

So how do you ride in a mount if you're already in a mech?

Pilot mode, Ejector seat.

However, you can also use the mech as a mount if you wish.

[Softbottom]

This thread won me over the moment I saw the commitment to a Goblin/Gnome only class.

Preach brother. I only play gnomes and only have since launch. We are pretty much the forgotten race lol.

[Tarba]

Engineering already covers this theme. What we need is something completely new, not something based off a profession.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hds9tFMuU8o

How does fuel work?
Coming soon....

I liked the heat system from swtor bounty hunter.

[Teriz]

How does that fit into raiding and pvp?

Blizzard has already established that Gelbin Mekkatorque's Warframe can be used indoors:

http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/wp-c...017_180301.jpg

[Teriz]

Preach brother. I only play gnomes and only have since launch. We are pretty much the forgotten race lol.

Yeah, this is why I restricted it to Goblin and Gnomes. They deserve the attention.

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I liked the heat system from swtor bounty hunter.

Yeah, I was actually considering that as a possible model.

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How old are you?

What? Did I not answer your question?

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I thought this was amazing first tinker thread ive wanted to finish, really well thought out, would love for this to gain benifits from the engineering profession. well done man ignore the haters

Thanks man. I appreciate the kind words.

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Appreciate your effort but no. The whole tinker possibility is just meh, no matter the approach.

Sorry you feel that way.

[Dayon]

Yeah, this is why I restricted it to Goblin and Gnomes. They deserve the attention.

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Yeah, I was actually considering that as a possible model.

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What? Did I not answer your question?

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Thanks man. I appreciate the kind words.

My buddies and I were looking at the percentages each race held in the player community. Gnomes and Goblins are near the bottom. So there are two schools of thought:

1) Gnomes and Goblins are not popular enough, so building a class around just them is not feasible because it wouldn't convince players to roll them.
2) Gnomes and Goblins are not popular enough, so give them an exclusive class to give them more appeal.

At this point I could see it going either way.

[Teriz]

They do. They're still a melee class, and melee range is required to execute the rotation. That alone is going to differentiate it from any Lich-based Necromancer spec.

You mean outside of their Lich-based abilities?

Chains of Ice, and Death and Decay, while Lich spells, aren't required for a Lich class.

So what's the point of having a Lich if they don't get Chains of Ice or Death and Decay? Every iteration of Lich in WC-related media has those abilities.

Blending minion sacrifice, Lich Transformation, Soul-based abilities, ghosts, etc. in with shadowfrost abilities is one of the more common avenues I've seen for differentiating a Lich spec from both Frosts.

And then we run into Warlock and Shadow Priest territory.

The secondary resource isn't irrelevant though. As I've told you countless times, people are sick of mechanical homogeneity. A different secondary resource changes the class dramatically.

If "Another spell caster with frost spells" is something you're seriously worried about (You're not, you're just arguing in bad faith), then there's zero reason for Fire and Destruction to coexist. Honestly, if we're boiling things down to that level, things like Holy Priests and Holy Paladins start blurring together.

Again, that's just two specs. You're talking about adding a third Frost spec that is already ability gimped because it can't have iconic Lich abilities. Don't you think that's a bit redundant?

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My buddies and I were looking at the percentages each race held in the player community. Gnomes and Goblins are near the bottom. So there are two schools of thought:

1) Gnomes and Goblins are not popular enough, so building a class around just them is not feasible because it wouldn't convince players to roll them.
2) Gnomes and Goblins are not popular enough, so give them an exclusive class to give them more appeal.

At this point I could see it going either way.

I'm definitely going with point #2. Goblins and Gnomes need something that everyone wants to play as. Part of the problem is that their versions of every class is either taken as goofy or ironic. Mekkatorque in the mech however looks perfectly natural and makes sense.

[Rhamses]

Tank talents are complete. Go to this website and scroll down to user-made talent grids and click Siegecrafter Tinker Talents.

BTW: My vision of the Siegebreaker talent:

Thanks for putting up that pic, it really brings home how awesome that talent is. Definitely my favorite ability you've created so far.

[Wildberry]

You mean outside of their Lich-based abilities?

Considering that mechanical differentiation is what people are asking for? Yes. You keep trying to weasel away from this fact.

So what's the point of having a Lich if they don't get Chains of Ice or Death and Decay? Every iteration of Lich in WC-related media has those abilities.

The fantasy isn't, and can't be, thoroughly explored by Frost Death Knights.

With regard to your point about Liches in Warcraft-related media, no actually. Those abilities haven't appeared in the following examples:
-Kel'Thuzad (Naxxramas)
-Amnennar the Coldbringer (Razorfen Downs)
-Instructor Chillheart
-Novos the Summoner
-Ras Frostwhisper
-Araj the Summoner

The following don't have Chains of Ice:
-Lich (Warcraft III)
-Lady Deathwhisper
-Rage Winterchill

So, unless by "Every iteration of Lich in WC-related media" you mean "Kel'Thuzad in Heroes of the Storm" then no.

And then we run into Warlock and Shadow Priest territory.

GoSac isn't rotational minion sacrifice. Lich Transformation is missing entirely from Warlocks and Spriests. Affliction can survive a soul-based ability being added to another class. etc.

Honestly, the arbitrary standards you trot out for Necromancer would sink most existing classes.

Again, that's just two specs. You're talking about adding a third Frost spec that is already ability gimped because it can't have iconic Lich abilities. Don't you think that's a bit redundant?

Not at all. Additionally, you said:

"Another spell caster with frost spells"

Death Knights are not, nor will they ever be, a caster. So again, we're in Destro/Fire territory.

[Darktbs]

There's plenty of things popular outside of Warcraft. That has no bearing on whether or not it'll actually appear in Warcraft, and it shouldn't be used as a basis to create a nonexistent difference between two similar concepts.

Not a basis but to expand upon the already existing concept.

Your argument is akin to advocating for Blizzard to create another monk class because our Monk class only deals with Pandarern monks and not Blood Elf monks like Brightblaze, or the Scarlet Crusade Monks.

Im sorry but who is the guy advocating for a engineering class because they don't like how the profession work?Tip:You.

You have no ground to speak about this.

Sounds pretty silly doesn't it?

Your lazy concept?Yes.

Because it isn't Warcraft.

Its called taking inspiration.You should try, it would make your concept alot better.

Irrelevant. You can expand on a concept as long as the core is intact. There was no Monk class, and the Brewmaster core was unique in the class lineup, so its expansion beyond that was a non-issue. The problem with the Necromancer is that the core is compromised so you're purposely trying to expand it to create a difference that doesn't really exist.

No, its irrelevant to you because of your double standards.You are excusing this concepts from expanding from the original idea but is condeming Necromancers from trying to do so.

[A dot Ham]

Engineering already covers this theme. What we need is something completely new, not something based off a profession.

On paper maybe. In functionality no.

If you gave back everything fun that was taken away, or made useless for the Engineering profession, over the years... you'd have a loose framework for a new class.

I supposed you could make Engineering useful again. But then everyone would want their respective professions to be equally useful. But then you fall back into the issue of making specific professions mandatory for specific classes/specs/roles.

It definitely requires some thought though (not that adding any other new class didn't). But perhaps we could get a profession rework AND a new class?

[DotEleven]

Nah, I have to disagree with you there. Only allowing it to gnomes and goblins would be a shame, but we don't need another monk. The monks are much too broad and some of them don't even make sense.
For tinkers: Night elf tinkers would be flat-out bullshit. Same, but less, with tauren, trolls, all elves, ...
Imo possible would be:
Alliance
Gnomes - Obviously
Dwarves - As described in the RPG ages ago, but also looking at their knack with siege weapons and guns.
Draenei - We have Romuul for that, so why not. If they can build spaceships, why not mechs?
Horde
Goblins - Obviously
Orcs - I don't like it, because of the lack of INT :P But for faction balance and considering their weapon craftsmanship why not
Uh... - Sat here for like 5 minutes and I have no idea for a third one. Tauren and trolls don't show technical interest. The elves are more magic-based, undead are alchemists and not tinkers, hmmm...
Vulpera - I mean, they at least look like they could fit in.



Yeah, sry, not a native speaker. :P
It's also a very strong warcraft archetype. The technological progress of Azeroth is kind of unique in the grand scheme of fantasy worlds.

I mean, I can see both sides of the argument. Definitely the most tinker-like races are Goblins and Gnomes and I kind of like the idea of single class/race combos (like how druids were initially just tauren and night elf or how right now only Night Elves and Blood Elves can be Demon Hunters). However we can kind of see it as Tinker is very similar to the engineering profession and I know that no professions are race locked but it does show any race can be technologically aware some are just much more suitable.

That being said, I am for the Gnome/Goblin only like I said, I like the idea of single class/race combos. Not to mention that Gnomes/Goblins are small and fit the pilot seats so unless we're making even bigger warframes for the other races they wouldn't.

[Teriz]

Considering that mechanical differentiation is what people are asking for? Yes. You keep trying to weasel away from this fact.

The fantasy isn't, and can't be, thoroughly explored by Frost Death Knights.

If that's the case, then which ability showcased by those Lichs you listed wouldn't fit in either the DK or Mage classes?

GoSac isn't rotational minion sacrifice. Lich Transformation is missing entirely from Warlocks and Spriests. Affliction can survive a soul-based ability being added to another class. etc.

To be fair, we haven't seen Demonology in BfA yet. However, I'm not surprised you're fine with taking more abilities from existing classes.

Not at all. Additionally, you said:

Death Knights are not, nor will they ever be, a caster. So again, we're in Destro/Fire territory.

Well again, which Lich abilities from those NPC Lichs wouldn't fit in the DK class?

[Sting]

I thought this dead horse was beaten to pulp by now

[Teriz]

Im sorry but who is the guy advocating for a engineering class because they don't like how the profession work?Tip:You.

Actually I like the profession just fine. I want a class that uses the technology theme that obviously in the game, but cannot be recreated because of the limitations of
the profession. I find it bizarre that you seem unable to tell the difference between a class and a profession in WoW.

Here, maybe this will help:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/profession/
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/classes

No, its irrelevant to you because of your double standards.You are excusing this concepts from expanding from the original idea but is condeming Necromancers from trying to do so.

Yeah, because the Tinker concept hasn't been explored by any class. The Necromancer concept currently exists almost completely in DKs, and partially in Mages and Warlocks. Blizzard themselves said that they incorporated the Necromancer into the DK class. For some reason, that's a fact you guys just can't accept.

[Thimagryn]

I'm definitely going with point #2. Goblins and Gnomes need something that everyone wants to play as. Part of the problem is that their versions of every class is either taken as goofy or ironic. Mekkatorque in the mech however looks perfectly natural and makes sense.

It makes sense, but things that make sense aren't always the option to go for.

Blood (High) Elves on the Alliance would have made sense too, but it would have continued to skew the faction populations because of the lack of a pretty race on the Horde side. While a Tinker is appealing, being Goblin and Gnome exclusive can have the adverse effect of simply making the class unpopular and rarely played. Honestly, that's the last thing I'd want to see out of a Tinker, considering the concept has a lot of potential for other races.

[Wildberry]

If that's the case, then which ability showcased by those Lichs you listed wouldn't fit in either the DK or Mage classes?

Where did I say those Liches encompass the entirety of the fantasy? My only point was that the overwhelming majority of Liches in Warcraft don't have both Death and Decay and Chains of Ice. A point you were objectively wrong on, which you're now trying to gloss over.

Beyond that, there are plenty of spells among the listed Liches that could fit inside of Frost Death Knights and Frost Mages. I don't know why you're under the impression it's a "killing blow here." First of all, there's the question of whether or not either Frost spec needs more abilities. While something could theoretically fit inside of a class thematically, it really doesn't matter if the class already functions well. Speaking as a Frost Death Knight, we don't need more things, we just need our current things put in focus. Beyond unnecessarily bloating classes as a gotcha to new classes, it's worth pointing out that a chunk of Monk and Demon Hunter abilities could have easily been put into other classes.

To be fair, we haven't seen Demonology in BfA yet. However, I'm not surprised you're fine with taking more abilities from existing classes.

Mind pointing me to where I've said I wanted to take abilities from existing classes in this discussion? Giving a new spell, that could have theoretically gone to Affliction, isn't "taking" anything. That shouldn't be a hard concept.

Well again, which Lich abilities from those NPC Lichs wouldn't fit in the DK class?

Again, even though you really want to get away from this now, you wanted to boil things down to "spell caster, casting frost spells" Are Death Knights casters, yes or no? If they're not, we're in Destro/Fire territory.