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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I'm a raid logger. Legion is awful.

    AP, Legiondaries and titanforging are the absolute worst. Cancerous game design.
    Exactly what Im saying.
    All those things you said plus rng is what I like, best design ever, for me ofc.
    Safe to say there is no “what playerbase wants” like some want to input Blizzard for “not listening to playerbase”.

  2. #42
    The near endless M+ grind for AP at the beginning of Legion and falling behind my guildies due to not being able to grind said AP all day due to work etc. killed it for me and for the first time since I started playing/raiding in BC I unsubbed and have been since Emerald Nightmare, not to mention the whole legendary and rng on top of rng introduced.

    I can't comment for others but for me personally Legion was somewhat of a failure and i'm not holding my breath for BFA to be any better.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakatashi View Post
    Mythic+ adds fantastic life to the game for a solo player
    I approve. I can't do progress raiding anymore, so I can't participate in my guild mythic raids, but for those few hours I can play on weekdays, I do 1-2 M+ runs, nowadays mostly to improve my score. I plan to hit 2.8k today (on raider.io), my goal is 3k or wherever I feel it's enough.

  4. #44
    There was a lot of focus on appearances and fun ways to obtain them, I think that is a big part of the success of Legion. Farming mounts, transmogs and artifact appearances is content that a large portion of the playerbase enjoy doing. Things like the mage tower and the hidden mounts are amazing in this regard, not just things you unlock by looting an item or grinding rep.

  5. #45
    It’s not a popular opinion, I’m sure, but I’m a big fan of AP. I’m talking about the small jumps in power after attaining all of your important skills. What it boils down to, is at the end of a nights play, you can say to yourself hey, I didn’t get any items that would increase my power. But I did get this ap.... now I will ever so slightly more powerful next time.

    Contrast this to the RNG circle jerk that blizz is going for and it’s more like hey, I didn’t get any items tonight. I feel bad. Maybe I will get something tomorrow. Maybe not. Le sigh.

    I know which I prefer.

    #bringbackvalor

  6. #46
    Change blows when it comes in the form of completely reinventing a spec you have loved since 2004 for no justifiable reason at all.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by justinhalfout View Post
    The near endless M+ grind for AP at the beginning of Legion and falling behind my guildies due to not being able to grind said AP all day due to work etc. killed it for me and for the first time since I started playing/raiding in BC I unsubbed and have been since Emerald Nightmare, not to mention the whole legendary and rng on top of rng introduced.

    I can't comment for others but for me personally Legion was somewhat of a failure and i'm not holding my breath for BFA to be any better.
    It was the same for me with my mage. I couldn't even decide which spec should I invest AP and time into, because I like frost, but it was utterly broken at start, so I had to go with fire to be competitive. I had a break after ToV and ~50% progress in hc NH (I didn't get curve) for 3 months, then I came back to my good old warrior (my original main) and started tanking again. I like M+ since then and I plan to stick to this warrior as main, for the rest of my WoW time.

  8. #48
    This expansion was crazy fun and good until the end for me.

    Only gripe I have is the RNG Legendary thing. I actually stopped playing because of getting discouraged by it (had a guild member with lower ilvl and same class doing 20% more DPS than me because of legendaries). The Leggo system simply made the AP grind meaningless.

  9. #49
    Herald of the Titans Nutri's Avatar
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    I found Cata really boring, and Dragon Soul was just an abomination of an final raid (T11&12 where actually pretty nice). Where was that awesome showdown with Deathwing? The massive dragon that terrorised the world on so many occasions. The doom and gloom he put onto the world. And then we got to fight on his back and hit a few tentacles. Such a missed opportunity. His human form was only showed on the boxart I believe? I didn't really want a Nefarian 2.0 (well 3.0) kinda fight but a dragon as huge as Deathwing deserved a lot more than he eventually got. It was just dismissive to the character. The unlocking of all the zones in a one-way fashion felt pretty co-cumbersome. Towards the end I didn't even bother anymore and just leveled my toons through dungeons. The tabard rep system was good tho.

    WoD was just... Even more boring than Cata. I hopped on and off throughout it's course but I just did not enjoy playing at all. The horrendous lengths of both the Cata and WoD final patch was also really bad.

    What made Legion so good for me personally was the addition of World Quests, Emissary Quests and Mythic+. This keeps a lot of the stuff relevant and simply put, keeps me playing. Also, the patch pacing was a lot better than previous xpacs. Stuff never really felt going stale. There's still hopping on and off but not out of sheer boredom of the content. Just playing some other stuff in between from time to time.
    Last edited by Nutri; 2018-02-08 at 08:09 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Frandaero View Post
    This expansion was crazy fun and good until the end for me.

    Only gripe I have is the RNG Legendary thing. I actually stopped playing because of getting discouraged by it (had a guild member with lower ilvl and same class doing 20% more DPS than me because of legendaries). The Leggo system simply made the AP grind meaningless.
    The Legendaries was a system that was suboptimal. The gameplay additions that they brought were great. I love swapping between them in M+, its like talent swaps you can do mid encounter at the touch of a button. However, the way you needed to aquire them sucked hard. They were too important an d core to the game-play for many specs to leave that part open to low chance RNG.

  11. #51
    Mechagnome Piesor's Avatar
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    Legion was the best expansion so far regarding the amount of new or improved features and the delivery of fresh content. I feel with all the mythic raiders though, because you could get the best gear outside raids without much effort.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by foofoocuddlypoopz View Post
    They have at the end of every expansion and it's not vague at all.
    It's really fun when you people read those and build your own imaginary narratives about what they said. Amusing.

  13. #53
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
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    WQs, M+ saved the day. Artifact grind was also a great addition, especially that you can acquire AP in many different ways. This basically means the game will continously reward you with little powerups for playing the game regardless of what you do. The exponential curve and the AK system also made sure that the AP gap between super HC and casual players isn't prohibitively big.
    As far as I see Blizzard is aware of this, they are moving forward with this AP modell under new name (Azurite) and keeping WQs/M+

  14. #54
    I don't think it was "so well received", but it wasn't a disaster. There obviously were many points of contention, legendaries, AP grind before tiers, EN and ToS overall, M+ difficulty disparity, titanforging.. I could go on.

    Despite all of that, it was a game that you could play for most of its lifespan. You could log on for 30 minutes and do some WQ, run a random hc, or whatever and feel like you've done something useful for your char. Or you could play for 16 hours a day and feel like you are not completely wasting time (albeit an illusion). That was really good about Legion, not much else.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Subs keep setting new lows with every xpac after Wrath until they just stopped reporting it.
    Except from small amount of insider info we have, subs were at like 9-10million level early into Argus release. Legion has been a success, WoW looked at FF14 and then did it better. Lots of content for casual players outside of raiding.

  16. #56
    I really want to know what you guys are smoking.

    By Blizzards own admission, "Legion was slightly more successful than WoD" as in, it was a trainwreck, but less of a trainwreck.

    OP's post...man..i don't know how anyone could genuinely write that non-ironically; i really can't.

    Most players quit late TLK (2009) because of the changes they didn't like, such as LFG that destroyed world grouping, and achievements which felt like something like Halo or Call of Duty.

    Nothing was bad about these things at the time, but man, it wasn't comforting, there was something on the horizon, and it wasn't good content, someone was whizzing in the sunwell. this was not the "content" many players had come to expect from Blizzard, who before then would give really meaty substantial content.

    By the time the Cataclysm beta was hitting and the access to information people had, you could tell that a lot of players started to see that the spark was going away, blizzards content was starting to be lacking, and it wasn't due to lack of change, but massive changes nobody really wanted, new content just felt weaker and had a massive lack of player-respect thing going on, players have wanted content and features and fixes for a decade and have been shut down and let down by new content that doesn't fix a problem, but sometimes makes it worse! A lot of people still to this day want the Cataclysm changes reverted and the old world restored, many players STILL, TO THIS DAY see TLK as the peak of WoW and the "end" of the game.

    To think that "these millions of player don't know why they left WoW" is absolutely ludicrous and absurd, and this mentality that Blizzard can do no wrong at all, that Blizzard cannot make a single horrible decision or change, or HASN'T CHANGED THE GAME IRREVERSIBLY IN BAD WAYS (only in restrospect can blizz do wrong, like WoD, which even some people STILL DEFEND) is absolutely insane.

    Cataclysm was really, seriously meh.
    MoP was weird and in some ways it improved from cata, other ways it fucked it up harder.
    WoD sucked major ass because of farmville.
    Legion sucked slightly less ass because blizzard pumped in every loose end story line, but at expense to the integrity of the lore and the games future. admittedly in my own opinion, Ion is trying VERY HARD to turn this trainwreck around, because man, Tom Chilton the egotistical and out-of-touch dictator of WoW for the last 5 years ruled over the ashes of a dead game.

    and you guys are going to see how irrelevant your game is when those millions of players (yes, millions) play vanilla WoW, the game they fell in love with, before Blizzard ruined the game with unnecessary changes fueled by business, tactical and downright stupid practices, ideas and decisions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Netherblood View Post
    Except from small amount of insider info we have, subs were at like 9-10million level early into Argus release. Legion has been a success, WoW looked at FF14 and then did it better. Lots of content for casual players outside of raiding.
    even logging in to any server would show that this is a complete, undefendable and outrageous lie on your part.

    subs are clearly in the 2-4m range.
    Last edited by JohnnyMccrum; 2018-02-08 at 08:38 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorice View Post
    To me, Legion was a success.
    Played through whole Expansion and never did I have "Nothing to do"
    Perhaps, the exact reason you kept playing was because you had nothing else to do.

    /deep

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Piesor View Post
    I feel with all the mythic raiders though, because you could get the best gear outside raids without much effort.
    Have you tried that? The effort/reward for getting that 'gear outside raids' is orders of magnitude higher than just getting drops from raids. Someone doing a relaxed 2 hour clear of HC will have a much higher chance of getting an upgrade than his friend spamming M+15's for 10 hours a day all week.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Subs keep setting new lows with every xpac after Wrath until they just stopped reporting it.
    Do u got sub numbers? Because they haven't be reported since early WOD.

    Also once again WoW still has millions playing and blizzard is still making money each quarter than the one before it. You realize a MMO can be successful without millions of subs right?
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.
    My Gaming PC: MSI Trident 3 - i7-10700F - RTX 4060 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 1TB M.2SSD

  20. #60
    Deleted
    The world quest system in the start was great. DO whatever quests you wanted for whatever reward you wanted.

    Sadly Argus is such a shitty zone(s) that it tends to ruin the system for a lot of people that i know. They(and me) find it so annoying that when we finally get to fly all the content we can fly in is outdated, the old world quests are basicly useless(close to at least) and the new zones are some of the most annoying to navigate that we ever had.

    TLDR: World quests great idea and implementation - Argus a huge stepback and a good way of showing how not to do anything moving forward.

    Mythic plus is the best addition to the game since... well... dungeons? idk. Best addition since vanilla at last. Sadly it was overshadowed by the extremely, EXTREMELY bad handleing of legendaries and the new gearing system which basicly just randomizes how you get gear 100%. Meaning a new hard dungeon system that rewards you better gear becomes less rewarding.

    The new gearing system also took a lot away from raids.


    My message to Blizzard - There is nothing wrong with having a pre-raid - BiS list and a raid BiS list. Nothing. There is nothing wrong with some of the cool sustein and utility passives from the legendaries. But the extra stats and the dps additions are downright stupid(sorry) on top of an already completely random gearing system.

    I dont play Legion and i havent for months. I am gonna resub soon to level the new races and i am looking forward to this with the new system(however i loathe having to grind the new argus shitty world quests to unlock it).

    We can learn a lot from Legion but the downsides sadly outweight the upsides

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