8.0 Warlock changes from Beta

[Duckz0rs]

Looking forwards to having old sacrifice back, especially getting the demon's ability again. Reminds me of back in TBC where you'd take 5/5 Bane and sacrifice your succubus for shadowbolt damage, huge single damage numbers.

Will be nice to have the damage self-baked as a flat % boost instead of the aoe-only option we have now, fun to try make CB go as high as it can.
Will be especially nice to be able to sacrifice different pets to get different abilities - I never have an interrupt as destro since we need to use our imp, at least with this talent we can take spell lock or singe magic into our kit.

It's already been reverted back to an RPPM proc, but you DO keep your sacced demon's ability.

[Xanatas]

https://gfycat.com/AncientImmediateKob

new animations update, now incinerate looks better with fire&brimstone but need more fire for me...

green fire must be very very cool with this new animation


another link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItVLYhZIT0

[Deleted]

I really wish they would stop fucking around with sacrifice and just make it a flat damage increase like is USED to be and the SAME as they gave to hunters and frost mages.

They always seen to give the cool stuff we had away then give us some overcplicated shitter version of what they took away. Let it be even and just a choice of how you want to play. Some want demons, some don't. Just make the choice really close to pick what you enjoy

My only other concern is hellfire, taking damage, burning shards and having to run into melee range aswell as it being channelled so you can't cast anything else, it's going to have to be crazy hard hitting to compete with fnb and cataclysm. I still don't see how those to talents will be chosen over fnb. 1 has a cd and the other has many issues ������

They could even make sac hit your main target for x% and then have it hit nearby targets for less to stop it pulling away in aoe for people who want to play with a demon

[Dastey]

I feel like they want GoSaC to be a single target option, which is the reasoning behind the latest change.

However I don't just understand why they don't make it "Increases the damage of your single target spells by 15%". I'm fairly certain it was on incinerate, chaos bolt and shadowburn once upon a time anyways. So just make it immolate, incinerate, chaos bolt, conflagrate, soul fire and shadowburn (may have forgot some).

I do realize this would cause some issues with FnB and Cataclysm but I think those would be minimal issues and if that is really a problem they could just remove immolate from the equation and disable it on the additional incinerates.

[Gohzerlock]

It's a shame they already reverted sac. It's literally a damage increase even for other pet classes like hunter from what I remember.

[kaid]

Two spells missing? What is MISSING from Demonology?

Personally, if Demonic Empowerment were a cooldown and instant cast (think Bestial Wrath) then I would be Demonology 100% of the time.

Instant cast and preferably something that buffs you that you radiate to the pets instead of the pets directly. That way it would be both easier to monitor without needing weak auras and not have to be recast every god damn time a new pet shows up.

[bio347]

I feel like they want GoSaC to be a single target option, which is the reasoning behind the latest change.

However I don't just understand why they don't make it "Increases the damage of your single target spells by 15%". I'm fairly certain it was on incinerate, chaos bolt and shadowburn once upon a time anyways. So just make it immolate, incinerate, chaos bolt, conflagrate, soul fire and shadowburn (may have forgot some).

I do realize this would cause some issues with FnB and Cataclysm but I think those would be minimal issues and if that is really a problem they could just remove immolate from the equation and disable it on the additional incinerates.

Speaking to the past, the major issue* with percentage-based GoSac is that it scales with mastery and pets don't. This means that as your gear gets better, Sac gets further and further ahead of the other options (and also that there's probably an annoying crossover point at which the other talents are better because you don't have enough mastery). It also has a smaller problem with Havoc and multi-DoT Immolate, because those are "single target spells" that it's enhancing which the pet options can't account for.

On the other hand a fixed-damage Sac, so long as it continues to be single-target in a single-target talent row, is fairly trivial to balance. "Oh, the imp does X damage and the other talent options contribute about Y damage, so Sac does X+Y."


*obviously not seen as an issue to those who prefer it

[Deleted]

They need to just make GoSac a flat % increase to only your direct ST nukes so leave out incinerate and immolate so we dont have silly FnB/Cata scaling issues and balance it accordingly.

That way if also fits thematically by further buffing you massive nukes spells, which according to the water cooler, is what destro should be about.

There fixed, i now have a ST option to play without a demon and if Havoc fights are going to be an issue, don't let the GoSac % apply to spells that are copied by havoc so ppl like challenge dont ride to the forums on the back of his fel hunter(he probably lets dispell peanut butter off his nuts) pitch fork in hand screaming about pet equality!!

[Dastey]

Speaking to the past, the major issue* with percentage-based GoSac is that it scales with mastery and pets don't. This means that as your gear gets better, Sac gets further and further ahead of the other options (and also that there's probably an annoying crossover point at which the other talents are better because you don't have enough mastery). It also has a smaller problem with Havoc and multi-DoT Immolate, because those are "single target spells" that it's enhancing which the pet options can't account for.

On the other hand a fixed-damage Sac, so long as it continues to be single-target in a single-target talent row, is fairly trivial to balance. "Oh, the imp does X damage and the other talent options contribute about Y damage, so Sac does X+Y."


*obviously not seen as an issue to those who prefer it

True but the gear was also very different back then.
In Legion the secondary stats were changed drastically to the point where we started with a lot more than we regularly do, and in return the increase of secondary stats on gear has been minimal through the expansion.
So if that was the only issue I would say it has basically been fixed at this point.

The Havoc part will be true, however it seems they want us to be really strong on cleave and quite bad on AoE, so I think they would be gucci with that

[lummiuster]

All 3 lock specs currently in pvp are viable with the lowest mobility in the game. Defensive wise we have literally the exact same abilities are we do in the live build, only destro is going back to the non artifact 3 minute unending resolve version instead of a 1 minute version. Which speaking of, I think its a bad design for pvp, shield wall and kick immunity for 8 seconds every 1 minute lol. Rather they find a more creative and less crude way to make destro playable in pvp.

But anyway has there ever been a pvp season where warlocks didnt have at LEAST 1 top tier pvp spec? I can only think of S5 which was a shitshow regardless. Warlocks have always been good and I'm sure we'll be more than fine.

- - - Updated - - -
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The issue is that the most important is to compare us with other classes that can be seen as a "replacement". Shadow priest in pvp especially in RBGs perform much much better than any warlock spec.

[Xorn]

It's a shame they already reverted sac. It's literally a damage increase even for other pet classes like hunter from what I remember.

It is. MM hunters and Frost Mages get a flat damage increase to either all or some of their abilities for not having their pets. I don't know why we can't have nice things...

Oh right, people bitched about getting trucked by Chaos Bolts in pvp.

[Netherspark]

I feel like they want GoSaC to be a single target option, which is the reasoning behind the latest change.

However I don't just understand why they don't make it "Increases the damage of your single target spells by 15%". I'm fairly certain it was on incinerate, chaos bolt and shadowburn once upon a time anyways. So just make it immolate, incinerate, chaos bolt, conflagrate, soul fire and shadowburn (may have forgot some)

The problem was that it scales too well with Chaos Bolt. Not only does it lead to GoSac beating out the other talents by a huge margin but it also leads to Destruction being heavily overpowered.

[Xorn]

The problem was that it scales too well with Chaos Bolt. Not only does it lead to GoSac beating out the other talents by a huge margin but it also leads to Destruction being heavily overpowered.

I feel like that's a cop out on the dev's part. Just look at Lonely Winter, or Lone Wolf. Both of those are flat damage increases, but they don't seem to have any issues keeping Frost or MM in line. If it gets out of hand, fix the scaling of it. If 15% is too much, try 10% or something. Instead they gave us a crap talent that was completely worthless that was beat out by the other two by a huge margin.

Additionally, LW/LW both beat out the other talents in their rows by quite a bit, and yet they don't seem to have any issues with those.

Hell, they made Lone Wolf a core PASSIVE that increases MM damage by 18% when they don't have a pet out. I'd kill for Sac to be a baseline spell for Aff/Destro that increases our damage by x% for saccing our pet, that way we can CHOOSE whether to use a pet or not, regardless of talent spec.

[bio347]

Hell, they made Lone Wolf a core PASSIVE that increases MM damage by 18% when they don't have a pet out. I'd kill for Sac to be a baseline spell for Aff/Destro that increases our damage by x% for saccing our pet, that way we can CHOOSE whether to use a pet or not, regardless of talent spec.

You can call it choice, but according the guides I've looked at both MM and Frost take their LW talents because they're better than the other options. Which means it's not a choice, for the most part. Not really. The same has gone for Sac whenever it's been a percentage increase.

And that's fine, I guess. But you can't argue for both "choice" and "percentage damage increase" in the same argument because they are, and always have been, mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

You can call it choice, but according the guides I've looked at both MM and Frost take their LW talents because they're better than the other options. Which means it's not a choice, for the most part. Not really. The same has gone for Sac whenever it's been a percentage increase.

And that's fine, I guess. But you can't argue for both "choice" and "percentage damage increase" in the same argument because they are, and always have been, mutually exclusive.

Well the point is the overwhelming answer from the majority of destro players is they want the choice, regardless of however they have to tune things to deliver it i don't care, just make it viable to play without the pet please.

[Kagthul]

Just off the top of my head without even looking anything up, demonic empowerment changed quite a few times from being a charge based cooldown to being spamable.

Soul conduit replaced servitude, servitude replaced old supremacy

old aff artifact would summon actual attackable souls you had to tab target to get your souls from

soul harvest used to instantly generate 5 shards instead of the DPS cd it is now

A number change but infernal was MASSIVELY buffed from only being usable as a pvp stun/+10 target CD to being very strong in 3 target situations

You realize all of those were changed before the first Alpha build that was actually available to outsiders to test? As in, Blizzard had already changed a bunch of those things internally before the "actual" playable Alpha started.

oh.. no?

Right. Glad you're so good at this.

I'd look up the alpha notes and give you all exact changes but honestly its a lot of effort from my side to appease a frothing chimp whos going to play no matter what they do in BFA so I dont care that much.

Oh, look, a shitty attempt at ad-hominem to cap off how utterly wrong you are. Cant win the argument on the facts? Attempt to insult the other person.

Hate to break it to you, but you made a really shit ASSumption there. Hell, i'm barely putting in 70 minutes a week in WoW right now.. because i can make a million gold a month to pay for OTHER things on battle.net.

Keep on trying, kiddo. Enjoy ignore, too. Done with your drivel.

[Xorn]

You can call it choice, but according the guides I've looked at both MM and Frost take their LW talents because they're better than the other options. Which means it's not a choice, for the most part. Not really. The same has gone for Sac whenever it's been a percentage increase.

And that's fine, I guess. But you can't argue for both "choice" and "percentage damage increase" in the same argument because they are, and always have been, mutually exclusive.

Right, but I'd be all for Sac to be a baseline and have talent that have nothing to do with pets. If I want pet based abilities or talents, I'll play Demo or BM.

[Gohzerlock]

They should make sac viable for at least one spec, the scenario where sac is intended "where pet pathing isn't optimal" is just awful.

[Challenge]

You realize all of those were changed before the first Alpha build that was actually available to outsiders to test? As in, Blizzard had already changed a bunch of those things internally before the "actual" playable Alpha started.

oh.. no?

Right. Glad you're so good at this.

I'm easily baited. Luckily this only took 1 minute of my time to search "affliction artifact alpha"

51:07



Good luck in your safe space seclusion bubble where you "lalala" your way through BFA alpha once more as you inevitably buy the game(which you probally already pre ordered) regardless of what changes, if any they do to the warlock class. I'm sure you'll find comfort in other equally ignorant and delusional players here.

[Xanatas]

I've seen on twitch the Alpha:

affliction:
-Death bolt hit like a truck
-nightfall proc is very high ATM

Destro:
-Shadowburn 2 charge is a great talent
-Soulfire hit like a chaos bolt but have 4 sec cast time, pointless talent atm
-new infernal is great

Demonology is almost the same ATM

Shadowfury 1.5 sec cast time is bad, and the talent darkfury to reduce 15 sec CD is almost pointless for me. They have nerf shield/dark pact/UR? Give us shadowfury istant to compensate