Why is Anduin putting his trust in these people? (Minor BfA Spoilers)

[gcsmith]

Him trusting Genn in battle makes sense. Genn would want to win more than anyone.

[dd614]

Anduin is Justin Trudeau of Warcraft

There are no alliance races. Just peoplekind.

[Aerisot]

The alliance doesn't have just one king, it has several, they are the leaders of those nations, that came together to form the alliance, they all have a common goal, but not one of them are considered the leader, Genn is watching out for Manduin since he has known him since he was a child, but doesn't mean he has to listen to his command.

[cparle87]

I'm still confused as to why exactly Anduin is trusting certain people to accomplish his ultimate goal of peace.

When he sent Genn to Stormheim to recover the Aegis of Aggramar, Genn blatantly disobeyed his direct order not to engage the Horde and ended up reigniting the faction war on the Broken Isles. (I know the rogue order hall campaign tries to explain that Anduin was deceived by Detheroc disguised as Mathias Shaw into attacking the Horde, but that directly conflicts with the Stormheim introduction which directly states otherwise; and since the rogue storyline is seen by 1 class as opposed to Stormheim which is seen by all of them, I'm inclined to believe the latter is canon.)

Anduin then goes on to basically make Genn his second-in-command during the Battle for Lordaeron. Why? Genn's already shown proof of insubordination in the short time that Anduin's been king. If it's a matter of having a combat veteran with battle experience, why not take Turalyon instead? He's been fighting the Legion for a thousand years. Alleria's already there too, so why not him?

After the Broken Shore, Jaina ditches Anduin and the rest of Azeroth during the entirety of Legion, then shows up just in time to lay waste to the Horde because apparently the events of War Crimes didn't happen and she hasn't healed at all and is still a bloodthirsty warmonger who wants to see the Horde destroyed (despite the fact that, regarding the Horde, only Garrosh and Aethas ever did her any wrong, the former being dead and the latter hardly having a say in any current Horde matters).

Now Anduin's trusting her with diplomatic efforts in Kul Tiras? I get that it's Jaina's homeland and, if anything, she'll be able to negotiate the nation's aid moreso than someone who isn't from there, but why? He knows she's still hellbent on destroying the Horde, as evidenced by him verbally expressing his concern that "she'll do anything to defeat them." If the Horde were to show up in Kul Tiras themselves, it would just be Stormheim all over again, with Jaina placing their destruction before all other priorities.

I get that Anduin's a trusting character, even gullible in some cases, but why is he just blatantly tasking these people - people whose goals and aims directly conflict with his own - with such important matters when he knows it will only further the idea that the Alliance are the aggressors?

Genn doesn't want peace. Jaina doesn't want peace. They want the destruction of the Horde.

Anduin has the title of High King. He has all the authority he could need. I honestly wish he'd utilize it to keep people like these two in check.

Bad thing (Theramore) happens, she hates the Horde. Good thing happens (War Crimes), she gets over it. Another bad thing (Broken Shore/Varian's death) happens, and she hates the Horde again. I always get confused when people gloss over War Crimes or say that it's ignored and she goes from hating to hating with no change.

[Nnyco]

anduin only keeps genn around because he always wanted a puppy

[cparle87]

1) Anduin is a weak king and he relies upon Genn's guidance. He is being manipulated.

2) Turalyon executing Alleria's sister might be a bit much for him.

3) Regarding Jaina, Blizz likes to render the books non-canon whenever they like. See: Illidan novel.

4) Again, Anduin is a weak king surrounded by more senior leaders/commanders who represent key factions within his Alliance. He wants to keep the peace within the Alliance moreso than keep the peace with the Horde. If there's any kind of competent, deep writing going on here, it's that the Alliance has a number of factions within it seriously at risk of quitting and striking out on their own.

I'm not sure what you mean about point 3. What in the Illidan novel did they retcon?

[MrDragon]

Honestly, I feel like Blizzard is really phoning it in with the Alliance. The WHOLE POINT is that it is an "alliance", mutually beneficial to all races, but each embracing their own culture.

Instead, Blizzard has dropped that, instead making the Horde into the supposed "cultural melting pot", even though it's supposed to be the polar opposite. Warchief rules ALL; he (or she) requires no council, and does whatever the hell they want until someone usurps the mantle of Warchief for themselves. Meanwhile, the Alliance's races and leaders should be free to act however they please. It seriously pisses me off that Night Elves -- who were painted in WC3 as being somewhat vicious -- basically cease to exist in WoW. "The Human Alliance" is all that exists, with zero regard to individual culture.

The whole idea of having a "High King" is fucking stupid. That would be like the UN electing a "Super President" who gets to overrule any nation's actual leader.

If anything, I'd like to see Tyrande go on the offensive, and when Anduin tries to scold her, her respond "Or what? What will you do?"

The Alliance seems like it has much more room for political intrigue than the Horde does, and it's just another reason I honestly call serious favoritism.

While I disagree with the favoritism thing as to me it's still patently absurd there would be Horde favoritism if you look at the patch history of classic WoW and the general amount of time and effort the design team puts into Alliance zones, quests and assets even up to WoD.... Narratively, most likely due to my own bias but perhaps there is genuine Horde favoritism there... at least the Horde story moves. More often than not in directions that I don't approve of... but it moves while the Alliance does indeed seem rather static.

And I'll loudly echo that I too feel the Nightelves got shafted HARD in the transition from WC3 to WoW. A transition which appears to have seriously de-fanged and de-clawed them of any real cultural distinction from any traditional boring fantasy wood-elves. In WC3 they were wild amazonian warriors and their men turn into literal beasts to even match that ferocity. They marched with dryads, giants, chimeras, ancient treants and faerie-dragons on their side. Where the FUUUUUDGE did THOSE night elves go?

(I know I'll get yelled at for this, but when WoW was first announced and they revealed they'd split races back into the old Horde vs Alliance setup, as opposed to WC3's 4 faction setup. I thought the Night Elves might actually join the Horde with their shared veneration of nature spirits and having in bulk what the horde needed: Timber. Something the Horde was not going to get with how the elves showed they were more than capable of protecting their forest were it not for Tich and Manny's little blood scheme.
In Hindsight, glad I was wrong cus WoW's Night Elves are complete wimps compared to their WC3 counterparts.)

[Bigby]

While I disagree with the favoritism thing as to me it's still patently absurd there would be Horde favoritism if you look at the patch history of classic WoW and the general amount of time and effort the design team puts into Alliance zones, quests and assets even up to WoD.... Narratively, most likely due to my own bias but perhaps there is genuine Horde favoritism there... at least the Horde story moves. More often than not in directions that I don't approve of... but it moves while the Alliance does indeed seem rather static.

Cataclysm was horrendously in favour of the Horde. I'm not even talking about the way Alliance loses far more to them in the Faction War, but in how their zones were so, so much more incomplete with entire storylines that just abruptly ended, had no real climax, bugginess and lack of phasing/effort.

- - - Updated - - -

Genn and Jaina are the only two major Alliance characters with a spine. He now recognises that with the Horde's obvious disregard for peace and willingness to commit/condone atrocities even after they claim they're the 'real' victim, the only way to attain said peace is to make sure the Horde's put down. In other words, doing what his father said he would at the end of SoO.

[Phuongvi]

Because Anduin he's a millenial emo liberal and he think everyone deserve a chance even if you're psychotic and you have nuke

[Leodok]

Genn doesn't want peace. Jaina doesn't want peace. They want the destruction of the Horde.

I wonder why anyone would task this kind of people with fighting the Horde.

[Spartin]

I wonder why anyone would task this kind of people with fighting the Horde.

Unless you are interested in genocide, those two are not qualified to advise on any path to peace. Which is what Anduin has been about since day 1. Capable combatants yes. Both are so tunneled into their own thing (Killing Sylvanas and Destroying the Horde), that they will not stop trying to achieve these regardless of whatever price needs to be paid. This road has been trod before in Warcraft history many times over.

[Deleted]

Isnt he like 17 years old?

That answers all other questions really.

[Claymore]

While I disagree with the favoritism thing as to me it's still patently absurd there would be Horde favoritism if you look at the patch history of classic WoW and the general amount of time and effort the design team puts into Alliance zones, quests and assets even up to WoD.... Narratively, most likely due to my own bias but perhaps there is genuine Horde favoritism there... at least the Horde story moves. More often than not in directions that I don't approve of... but it moves while the Alliance does indeed seem rather static.

And I'll loudly echo that I too feel the Nightelves got shafted HARD in the transition from WC3 to WoW. A transition which appears to have seriously de-fanged and de-clawed them of any real cultural distinction from any traditional boring fantasy wood-elves. In WC3 they were wild amazonian warriors and their men turn into literal beasts to even match that ferocity. They marched with dryads, giants, chimeras, ancient treants and faerie-dragons on their side. Where the FUUUUUDGE did THOSE night elves go?

(I know I'll get yelled at for this, but when WoW was first announced and they revealed they'd split races back into the old Horde vs Alliance setup, as opposed to WC3's 4 faction setup. I thought the Night Elves might actually join the Horde with their shared veneration of nature spirits and having in bulk what the horde needed: Timber. Something the Horde was not going to get with how the elves showed they were more than capable of protecting their forest were it not for Tich and Manny's little blood scheme.
In Hindsight, glad I was wrong cus WoW's Night Elves are complete wimps compared to their WC3 counterparts.)

I completely agree, and I also concur that even I had wondered at first if Night Elves might've gone towards the Horde. In a lot of ways, I actually think that might have been better for them in the long run, because their culture is basically absent in "the Alliance".

I think Blizzard just needs to "retire" Stormwind for a while. Have their soldiers preoccupied with rebuilding the neighboring lands (god, I want Westfall to go back to normal), and really give the other races not just a time to shine, but a time to LEAD. Dwarves should be more than just "comic-relief", their culture should exhibit real depth, and even sadness for some of the things their people have gone through. Night Elves, as you said, used to be vicious Amazonian women with bestial druids at their side, not just a bunch of tree-huggers. I would set the Worgen, as a whole, to be more in line with Night Elves, than Humans.

[alt-ithist]

Unless you are interested in genocide, those two are not qualified to advise on any path to peace. Which is what Anduin has been about since day 1. Capable combatants yes. Both are so tunneled into their own thing (Killing Sylvanas and Destroying the Horde), that they will not stop trying to achieve these regardless of whatever price needs to be paid. This road has been trod before in Warcraft history many times over.

Trying to achieve peace with people who are trying to exterminate you is idiotic, Jaina was peaceful when thrall was in charge of the horde and he didn’t want the blood of the alliance. Since thrall left we’ve had either Garrosh actively trying to wipe out the alliance, voljin took over but the horde were in fear of retaliation from the alliance about Garrosh so they got really jumpy and started shit in asheran. Now we have sylvanas that want to wipe out stormwind.

Anduin as the leader of the alliance right now is suicide for them. I still regret They didn’t have Garrosh kill varian in from him in WoD after he saved garrosh’s life during the trial.

[Eon Drache]

Sure if you completely ignore the fact that Varian died because the Horde offered no support to their allies which then they ran away safely with their tails between there legs, yeah then Genn looks like he has no justification at all.

Rather easy to justify something when you're so slanted, isn't it?

You should completely ignore that, though. Anduin knows first hand that it was an agent of the Legion that lied to the Alliance that caused the events on the broken shore. You should look into the Rogue campaign and the alliance story. Anduin is told after the fact that the legion planned the ambush and lied to the alliance to force the alliance to think the horde abandoned them. Let us note btw if the Horde hadn't sounded the horn we would have lost that day and there wouldn't be a patch 7.1 or 7.2 or 8.0.

If anything being ambushed is the alliance's fault and from Horde side you could say that the alliance plotted to have the Horde ended that day.

[Clone]

If that's true, that's even more evidence to support the already very well-known fact that Sylvannas didn't just abandon the Alliance on the Broken Shore, and that Varian's death isn't even remotely her fault. If Detheroc was discovered as the one who lured both the Alliance and the Horde into a trap, then that absolves the Horde of any guilt for having to quit the field to save themselves from being decimated.

But I have these same general questions about Genn and stuff as well. Why would Anduin so blatantly abandon his quest for peace - a goal that his entire character has been centered on up until this point, a goal that he eventually convinced his father was a worthy thing to strive for, a goal that his father even wrote in his last letter to Anduin to not give up on - and turn his back on all of that to join up with Gilneas to storm Lorderon, re-igniting the faction war?

It's blatantly obvious that Genn is laser-focused on destroying Sylvannas and his judgement is extremely biased and clouded due to the death of his son. Him blaming Sylvannas for Varian's death is just a convenience for him, even when it's logically absurd. For Anduin to trust him after all the things he's done shows VERY poor leadership and decision making.

My guess is that Anduin has no choice but to go along. As a leader he can't ignore the burning down of Teldrassil and Horde aggression.

[Castrum]

I'm not sure what you mean about point 3. What in the Illidan novel did they retcon?

They retconned almost all of it. No Vandel, no trip to Nathreza for the Sargerite Keystone. All major plot-points were retconned.

EDIT: Ah, I see Vandel was added in 7.2 as a barebones NPC. Oh well. The Keystone angle is still retconned.

[cparle87]

They retconned almost all of it. No Vandel, no trip to Nathreza for the Sargerite Keystone. All major plot-points were retconned.

EDIT: Ah, I see Vandel was added in 7.2 as a barebones NPC. Oh well. The Keystone angle is still retconned.

Considering the demon hunters have a quest chain to go get it, Illidan uses it aboard Kil'jaeden's ship to open the portal to Argus, and Portal Keeper even refers to Nathreza's decimation during her fight, I'm not sure where you've coming from.

[Flarelaine]

Lets remember Genn is the only reason Sylvanas is not able to create more valkyr.

If Sylvanas was able to do that, we would be dead.

In fact, we would be undead.

[Deleted]

1. Genn was part of the original Alliance so he brings a lot of experience even if he made many mistakes he's learned a lot since. He's one of the few active living leaders from that era. The only living leaders from the OG Alliance still alive are: Genn, Magni and Turalyon. And the last 2 have kinda been busy.

Genn never wanted to join the Alliance in the first place and only offered a token support. Basically, Gilneas wasn't part of the Second War. Furthermore, Genn left the Alliance as soon he could and ordered to build the Wall.

2. Genn is a King and has been for many many years. He's probably been a King longer than any other Human in Warcraft history. I don't even think King Terenas was as old as Genn is now. Also, both Genn and Anduin are Human. So he and Anduin have a lot in common. In fact, they are the only 2 Human Kings on Azeroth right now currently.

A King that divided his own kingdom with a wall and started a civil war? Great leadership there.

Genn is part of the current Alliance for one reason only, revenge.

- - - Updated - - -

Anduin no longer has a goal of peace. The Horde is experimenting with the very lifeblood of the planet and using it to make weapons of mass destruction

So is the Alliance. There aren't "good guys" in BfA.