[spoiler] Sylvanas and Saurfang relationship

[Dr Assbandit]

She knows that Saurfang is daddy AF and that is the highest qualifier to save someone.

[Highwhale]

As much as I want to believe you, I would love some proof.

Well. I can't confirm it but isn't Anduins says that Varian said to him Varok is the best what Horde represents? Aside from ICC i don't remember when Saurfang and Varian cross their paths...

[Mistaziggla]

Well. I can't confirm it but isn't Anduins says that Varian said to him Varok is the best what Horde represents? Aside from ICC i don't remember when Saurfang and Varian cross their paths...

Yeah I'm not too sure tbh I tried looking around, but couldn't find anything definitive either way. I obviously play horde though so I got a little bias going on lmao.

[Ash123]

To be honest I think it's actually for Talanji and Zul, infact, Sylvanas says something of the sort on her quest text, she says that some ship was suppose to land on Bladefist Bay and it never arrived and it was informed to be taken by the Alliance.

How would she or anyone even know if Saurfang is alive if he stays behind to hold off the Alliance at SoL? We just kinda find him there, and he himself says that he'll buy time so we get to our objective, he must have known of said mission OR we tell him in the missing cutscene that he has.

I'm still super miffed about the implications of his ''words'' with Anduin but we'll see, I've got a horrible feeling about it, but It'd be early still in the expansion's timeline.

One weird issue here is, Talanji and Zul did not behave like they were planned to sail to Bladefist Bay. Right after they boarded the ship, Talanji said something like "I do not care your Warchief, we are going to home".

[Dartz1979]

I think it's interesting that in the cinematic, Saurfang was so eager to fight for Sylvannas and in the leak it seems that Sylvannas would even instruct Thalysra, Rokhan and us to extract him from the Stockade.


How much does Sylvannas value Saurfang? Or is it just to make the Orcs like her more?

I always imagined her more of a lesbian kind of type.

[bufferunderrun]

I think it's interesting that in the cinematic, Saurfang was so eager to fight for Sylvannas and in the leak it seems that Sylvannas would even instruct Thalysra, Rokhan and us to extract him from the Stockade.


How much does Sylvannas value Saurfang? Or is it just to make the Orcs like her more?

My 2 cent, sylvanas don't care about Saurfang but he is the orcs leader and a brother of thrall leaving him as pow in stormwind could damage her leadership; as for Saurfang in the legion ending he seem suspicious of both Gallawix and Sylvanas how much he and Baine know about her plans still a mystery imho blizzard is preparing the soil for another insurrection.

[Rosalynda]

I might be an alliance fan, but i have to admit i really like the idea of Saurfang leading a rebellion against Sylvanas in an effort to put a recently revived Vol'jin (speculation, but still likely) back on the throne, even going so far as to get the alliance's help in the matter.

That and it might allow the forsaken to get some actual development, she holds them back quite a bit.

[Deleted]

I find it strange that they get sent to Stormwind to find some 'info' that got lost while it was on it's way to Bladefist Bay. Which is all that Sylvanas says (so far) about it when she sends the player. She does not send them to rescue Saurfang. He is not mentioned with a single word and Rokhan says, it wasn't his orders to drag Saurfang back, when he volunteers to buy them time.

I don't think Sylvanas would send anyone to Stormwind, without telling them to rescue Saurfang, if she knew he was there. Not because I have faith in her good heart^^, but because she must know they may stumble upon him and if word of that gets out and she didn't do anything about it, she's going to be so screwed.
So my guess is she actually doesn't know he is there.

And Saurfang won't sell out the Horde because he talks to Anduin. He may listen to some of his reasoning, maybe they can even clear up some things, but I refuse to believe that Saurfang would put the interests of the Horde in danger or sell them out.
There's lots of things we don't know yet and I can imagine some things Saurfang may not yet know because Sylvanas kept them hidden, maybe she didn't really tell anyone else what Azerite really is and Anduin tells him or something like that. But even then, Saurfang isn't just going to turn on the Horde. He may want to 'talk' to Sylvanas about this then, but that doesn't mean he screws the Horde over.

And, remember, we also do not have the cutscenes yet, maybe some things get explained there too.

[Aucald]

Having watched the cut-scenes and scenario, I'm pretty confident Sylvanas did not send the PC and their cohort to Stormwind to rescue Saurfang. Firstly, they're sent because an expected ship didn't arrive in Bladefist Bay, and the ship you find in Stormwind's dock is a Zandalari Troll ship ultimately belonging to Talanji. Sylvanas refers to this ship (presumably its passenger(s)) as her "prize," which seems like very odd terminology if she were referring to Saurfang. It seems more likely that they were sent to rescue Talanji and Zul, and that Saurfang was if anything a possible bonus objective of the mission, though he elects to remain to cover for the Champion's escape with the two Zandalari dignitaries.

[Deleted]

The question also remains if Sylvanas even knew at this point, that Saurfang is still alive. Most in the Horde probably didn't expect the alliance to let him live.

So as of now, we don't know if Sylvanas would have wanted to rescue him or not. She is certainly not stupid and would know, what kind of signal it would sent to the other leaders of the Horde, if she lets the leader of the Orcs rot in a Stormwind Dungeon willingly.

[Flurryfang]

Saurfang is probably a highly valued warrior to the Horde, whether Sylvanas likes him or not doesnt matter, he's too important to let the Alliance have.

Not just highly, i think he is pretty much thé highest valued warrior in the Horde right now, since he is the one linking the current orc faction to the horde faction overall. IF he is lost, the orcs are leaderless and since they already are a bunch of different clans, they would be hard to keep under manage.

Outside of that, he is the champion and protector of the Horde so he is a grand figurehead for the strength and culture of the Horde faction.

[Dalheim]

Not just highly, i think he is pretty much thé highest valued warrior in the Horde right now, since he is the one linking the current orc faction to the horde faction overall. IF he is lost, the orcs are leaderless and since they already are a bunch of different clans, they would be hard to keep under manage.

Outside of that, he is the champion and protector of the Horde so he is a grand figurehead for the strength and culture of the Horde faction.

Perfectly put.

[Duckz0rs]

Too early and incomplete to call, but the whole Saurfang going to talk to Anduin does give me a nagging "MoP rehash" feeling...

[Traveler Voltin]

Too early and incomplete to call, but the whole Saurfang going to talk to Anduin does give me a nagging "MoP rehash" feeling...

I said that yesterday.
“Lets distract the horde with all this troll lore as we repeat MoP for them.”

[Shampro]

The question also remains if Sylvanas even knew at this point, that Saurfang is still alive. Most in the Horde probably didn't expect the alliance to let him live.

So as of now, we don't know if Sylvanas would have wanted to rescue him or not. She is certainly not stupid and would know, what kind of signal it would sent to the other leaders of the Horde, if she lets the leader of the Orcs rot in a Stormwind Dungeon willingly.

I doubt she'd expect Saurfang to be alive after buying the Horde time to escape in the battle for Lordaeron, that was his intention, dying in battle to buy us time. Instead they took him prisoner, there's no way Sylvanas or anyone would really know. We see Rokhan asking to come as if he kinda knew him being there, but I honestly think it was coincidance, Blizzard is setting something up, that I can't say I totally like.

[Snes]

Plus I think she knows he's a famous hero orcs follow. Lose him, and lose the orc-vote

lol when's the last time a leader was elected in WoW

[Claymore]

No doubt, breaking him out just suits a lot of needs.

For one, he's a military genius by all accounts, and was able to not only rally the horde, but also the Alliance behind him in Silithis. Military commanders are invaluable.

Secondly, yeah, she'd be facing a full revolt from the Horde if she left him to rot. Unless the Alliance executed him -- which would still be a major loss -- she'd probably have Orcs and Trolls, and maybe even Tauren, resentful towards her.

Finally, yeah, there's every possibility that she fears that the Alliance might be able to form a peace treaty with Saurfang.

[Skeletov]

As Nathanos is killed off for another cheep shock, Syvanas realizes what he meant to her and now needs to fill the void he left behind. Umbric wasn't available so that left her with few other options.

[H-72]

Orcs can be a very fickle lot and many will turn at the drop of a hat on those they perceive as weak. Just like they did to Thrall. Saurfang got caught, that's weakness. Sylvanas freeing him is a display of her power, this weakens Saurfang's position in the Orc hierarchy all the while bolstering her own. Bonus points, the Orcs that value loyalty over power will also see this as strong display of her dedication to the Horde.

[Stooned]

Saurfang is too important to the Horde on several fronts to allow him to languish in the Stockades, where he could be tortured for (or mind-controlled into giving) information that he would be privy to as a long-standing veteran Horde commander, the leader of the orcs, and Sylvanas's left hand after her ascension to Warchief as well as his familiarity with all five previous Warchiefs (Blackhand, Doomhammer, Thrall, Garrosh, and Vol'jin). Leaving him there or killing him would cause unrest in the Horde at large, cause outrage among the orcs, and could allow the more outspoken against her reign to ignite another coup attempt.

That being said, of the current Horde leaders he also has the most experience working peacefully with the Alliance, tied with Lor'themar, thanks to the Might of Kalimdor and the Third War before it (Baine's brief friendship with Jaina and Anduin puts him in third place, as Vol'jin is currently busy being a jar of dirt and Thrall is having his midlife crisis, and the only time Sylvanas worked with the Alliance before the Broken Shore, she fed Garithos to Varimathras and some ghouls). He knows a wasteful war when he sees one, even if his loyalty to the Horde dictates he serve the Warchief faithfully and fight for the Horde when the Horde calls for his aid. If he felt he could convince Anduin to back off and get the Alliance out of Horde lands (or lands the Horde decided was theirs for the taking) without losing brave Horde warriors, he'd take the chance--and as Cucultian noted, Saurfang may feel a debt of honor to Anduin, since he was unable to repay Varian for said debt in allowing him to collect his son's body and put him to rest at Icecrown Citadel.

This is a great analysis and spot on.

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This.

If there's one thing Sylvanas can count on, it's Saurfang following her into the abyss. (So long as she doesn't overstep her boundaries, which thus far she's been careful not to do.) He's loyal to the Warchief - She is the Warchief.

He's one of the most well known and well respected warriors of the Horde that has ever lived. And he even makes an appearance in the Warrior Class Hall as the most skilled and powerful axe user on Azeroth. It'd be silly if Sylvanas didn't value his loyalty.

That said, Saurfang doesn't like Sylvanas. He won't let that get in the way of his loyalty, but he's definitely watching her closely and waiting for the moment she steps out of line. She also knows this.

Yeah - he's the embodiment of "respect the position, not the person".