Alliance Players DID NOT Save Suramar

[Enkrypt]

And that's shit writing.

Look, let's say I'm hiking in and I find you stranded in the wilderness, starving, without water and sick from something. I help you to safety over a period of days or weeks... feeding you, giving you water, treating you for a disease you'd caught and eventually finding you a cure and getting you to a place where you were OK. Then, someone else from my party is rude to you. You're REALLY going to turn around and ignore everything that I did because of that one incident? One instance of rudeness is more important than days or weeks of me saving your life?

Yeah, no. No one would act like that.

So, did you just like... forget that there was two sides to this? Two people came to the rescue of this hypothetical person. One was an asshole, and one was empathetic to their situation. One didn't trust the stranded person, the other trusted and knew what it was like to be stranded.

Do any Alliance players at all ever accept blame, or do you guys just write that shit off? First it was Sylvanas' fault that Varian killed himself, now it's Horde's fault that Tyrande was a cunt? Are you just not willing to be accountable for anything your faction leaders do or don't do?

[Alvito]

I understand why the Highmountain and Lightforged joined their respective factions. Of course you'll join your kin over people who are actively at war with them. it makes sense for the Highmountain to want to join up with other Tauren, and it makes even more sense for a band of Draenei to want to join up with the other only band of non-Manar'i Draenei out there.

It's like me being Greek, for example. Of course I'd join a Greek organization or group over, say, a Turkish one. One is made by people I have so much in common with; the other is people who have, or could easily start, killing those same people.

From that perspective the void elves make even less sense. They are blood elves that end up being void touched. Blood elves that Allaria hasn't had any interaction with for a very long time, yet they decide to drop everything and join up with her and switch sides. Really all the plot/story lines behind the allied races is just nonsense and Blizzard trying really hard to make a square peg fit in a round hole.

[Alex86el]

So my dwarf hunter did not become best friends, almost family, with the highmountain, and helped them immensely. It was a Bloodhoof hunter in cannon?? OK.

As for the Nightborn, if i remember correctly, there were equal numbers of Nightelf and Bloodelf forces fighting to free the city. Why would the "champion" matter when there were both, Tyrande with her army, and Liadrin with hers, there? Not to mention Khadgar.

Anyway, enjoy having those coward junkies in your Horde.

[Deleted]

Alliance did help, We had Tyrande there and she did what se did. No discussion there tbh. The thing is nobody from the alliance approvhed them. The quests for unlocking the races always have a emmisarry to the new allied race...

So its not who helped and who didint. Cannon is nobody from the alliance cared about nightborne joining. And it could have been only Tyrande.

[Deleted]

Anyway, enjoy having those coward junkies in your Horde.

I thought the Void Elves joined the Alliance?

[schwarzkopf]

I don't think that the Nightfallen deny the Alliance helped, I think the Nightfallen just feel that the Alliance is a little too close to the 'monarchy' that they just escaped.

Seems like a very WWII style story line, where the West & Russia defeated Hitler and if Germany had been given the choice it would have decided for the West going forward - not because it denied Russia's help but because it saw itself a better fit in with the west.

[Mjolknerd]

There's that one saying...."Every little bit helps." You kind of lost your own argument with your own words.

That saying does not apply to wars and diplomacy that takes place after when a new regime is installed. In reality what happened actually makes total sense, regardless if the alliance helped. What they did not do is make any diplomatic effort and the Horde did, beside the fact that Blood Elves were literally willing to die to help the Nightfallen and the Night Elves weren't. That is pretty much stated in actual in-game quests.

See the difference in the Alliance and Horde bulletin world-quest in particular, Lady Liadrin wants you to put bulletins out in the city to let the Nightfallen know that the Blood Elves totally have their back, and Tyrande wants you to put bulletins out to convince the Nightfallen to simply fight for them self (like that was even really possible in Nazi Germany without great person risk and most likely getting the shit killed out of you and your whole family, and this was analogous to that for a fantasy game) so that less of her people would die.

I'll admit, it's a damn janky experience game-play wise because Alliance players did as much as any Horde player physically playing the game to get their reps and so on, but the story wasn't even in question from the get go.

As many others are saying, you as a player are not even set out to help them at the behest of your faction, but instead Dalaran and your Order Hall which are neutral in Legion.

Who cares anyways? Playable Nightborne look terrible and their racials are garbage. Half the Nightborne class options are pure physical damage and so don't benefit from 1% magic dmg racial, Arcane Pulse is basically completely useless because the slow is not strong enough and has an extremely limited range, and the ability does very little damage. Then to add insult to injury they have a racial mailbox summon, which is a kind of thing that literally everyone can get as a toy by doing a quest that drops randomly at mailboxes in Dalaran. It costs like 20k gold to buy the quest item from AH to start it on my server, in case you're never lucky to find it in game, and that's by far the best part of Nightborne, as you don't have to be engineering to get mail anywhere in the game, except that toy exists and so does the old Moll-E if you're engineering, so fuck it why even bother?

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I don't think that the Nightfallen deny the Alliance helped, I think the Nightfallen just feel that the Alliance is a little too close to the 'monarchy' that they just escaped.

Seems like a very WWII style story line, where the West & Russia defeated Hitler and if Germany had been given the choice it would have decided for the West going forward - not because it denied Russia's help but because it saw itself a better fit in with the west.

Pretty much that^

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There isn't an in-game timetable given on Dalaran's neutrality so there's no reason to assume it was temporary until we're given more information?

Does it create a bad narrative to constantly have nations and characters flip-flopping on their most fundamental beliefs for the sake of gameplay? Yes.

But if you want good story, read a book. Gameplay is always going to supersede lore; it's just something we need to get used to.

That's not what happened here tho, literally the opposite of that is what actually happened. :|

If you played through the main story quest in MOP for your faction up to the part where Jaina drives the Horde out of Dalaran and becomes the new leader of the Kirin Tor, and you also played the Legion pre-patch where Khadgar and his pals vote her out, you would understand that Khadgar was pretty much never down with Jaina kicking out the Sunreavers from Dalaran in the first place. He will be neutral in BFA too, btw.

[Mjolknerd]

So my dwarf hunter did not become best friends, almost family, with the highmountain, and helped them immensely. It was a Bloodhoof hunter in cannon?? OK.

As for the Nightborn, if i remember correctly, there were equal numbers of Nightelf and Bloodelf forces fighting to free the city. Why would the "champion" matter when there were both, Tyrande with her army, and Liadrin with hers, there? Not to mention Khadgar.

Anyway, enjoy having those coward junkies in your Horde.

Did you even read any of the quest text when you were becoming best friends on your Dwarf Hunter with the Nightfallen? They are cured of their magic addiction with the Arcandor fruit and later they destroy the Nightwell.

Not surprised that someone who didn't even pay attention is mad about this tho.

[InfiniteCharger]

The elves saved suramar according to the inssurrection storyline, with help from the kirin tor.
Tyrande was representing the Night Elves as a race of elves with the Blood Ellves and High Elves and Nightfallen elves.

Factions had nothing to do with it. But instead of the elves reunifying as a result of the legion defeat and liberating Suramar they go back to dumb factions.

You as the champion was just a representative of the anonymous hero class hall.

[Kraddark]

They wanted the Horde to gain nightelf models and they wanted the Alliance to gain blood elf models. They couldn't think of a way to give the Horde another legitimate elven race so they hand waved it.

The truth is these two races were terrible choices for starting allied races. The first set of allied races should've been races that have an obvious relationship to their future faction (Dark Iron Dwarf, Lightforged Draenei, Zandalari Trolls, Highmountain Tauren, etc). Then they could've taken the time to flesh out the less obvious races (Void elf, nightborne) throughout the first patch before ultimately adding them in.

It would've been fine if they approached the situation with an ounce of foresight and baked in more confrontation between Tyrande and Thalyssrsa.

[Mic_128]

From that perspective the void elves make even less sense. They are blood elves that end up being void touched. Blood elves that Allaria hasn't had any interaction with for a very long time, yet they decide to drop everything and join up with her and switch sides.

That's not what happened.

The Blood elves were messing with void magic. They got kicked out of Silvermoon. Alleria went looking for them, worried because the void is bad news. She finds them after folling them to "the fragments of an ancient world, one teetering on the brink of the Void itself." They recognise her from tales of what happened to her on Argus. They do dumb stuff, Alleria saves them, they agree to take her tutelage.

They did not go "Oh hey, you're cool, we'll swap sides now."

[Deleted]

I been seeing this over and over and over..... All the allied race threads, BFA lore threads..... Alliance players keep saying "well I saved suramar" talking about the Nightborne or Thalyssra.

SO I thought I'd clear it up: What is reflected in-game does not always portray the cannon story that is the back-bone this 20+ year franchise.
WHEN AN EVENT HAPPENS IN GAME THAT BOTH FACTION PLAYERS PLAY THROUGH IT'S FOR GAMEPLAY SAKE. BOTH Alliance and Horde Player-Characters get an equal game-play experience for a customer based product. SO for GAME-PLAY sake we all get the experience.

A small investigation in to the story and lore will give you context. Sometimes its Horde cannon sometimes its Alliance cannon... In this case.....

According to cannon lore it was a "Horde Champion" that did what our player character did.

So Alliance players you DID NOT save Suramar. Your faction partially helped along side the Horde, while the Horde champion was the one to do the player character action......

That combined with the haughty pride of the Night Elves pushed Suramar to the Horde. Alliance stop acting like you're the pride of suramar now a enemy...

I agree. "Alliance players" did not save Suramar, as it's an imaginary place in a video game? How could they save it?

[vsb]

In-game lore is what matters over canon lore in-game.

My alliance toons were in Suramar. They were fighting demons and keeping the Nightborne faction leader alive by the skin of her teeth. Now she is joining the opposite faction and killing people in mine.

You're wrong. I saved Suramar. I saw Lady Liadrin, but you - I didn't see any alliance korijenkinses around. So no, you have no place in Suramar.

[Kytara]

This thread made my Saturday Morning! Thank you! #hilarious!

[Alex86el]

Did you even read any of the quest text when you were becoming best friends on your Dwarf Hunter with the Nightfallen? They are cured of their magic addiction with the Arcandor fruit and later they destroy the Nightwell.

Not surprised that someone who didn't even pay attention is mad about this tho.

Yes, i know the story. I know they (suposedly) are not jukies any more.
This is just friendly trashtalk, to make fun of them. Dont take things so literally.

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I thought the Void Elves joined the Alliance?

Please dont remind me of those Edgy-Emo-Weeb magnets.
Two lines of lore, made on the spot. Even Sylvanas is less edgy than those jokes.

[Mjolknerd]

Yes, i know the story. I know they (suposedly) are not jukies any more.
This is just friendly trashtalk, to make fun of them. Dont take things so literally.

Okay, but you're not really saying anything different than everybody that insists on whining about this.

[DarthMonk79]

I'm really trying to figure out why people are complaining and fighting over this. I mean could you imagine if 2 out of the 3 starting "allied races" for alliance were Elves?! I mean WTF, then of course people would complain and whine about that. WoW chose Nightborne as Horde, get over it.

[Peacemoon]

The nightborne saved themselves, with a little help from their friends.

How many nightborne died for the resistance? Alliance and Horde just helped them get to a winning threshold at the end.

[kary]

Players of all factions saved suramar
Thalyssra had a better rapport with liadrin than tyrande
she chose liadrin.

Very simple.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I mean... if we're talking about in-game lore, they're not wrong. Alliance had a huge part in it.

Ok... so by that logic Horde should also get Lightforged Dran and Void elves since the Horde also had a huge part in that.