Who's idea was it to make new races tied to the boring argus rep?

[Ringthane]

Title.

How are we supposed to get rep from argus factions when they all come from world quests? Argus is the worst zone of all that Blizzard has ever done, not only can't you fly there, the zone is also packed so it seems like you can't take 2 steps before agroing 20 mobs that won't let you mount up unless you kill them all .

0 logic behind it, at least give us the ability to grind rep by kiiling those said mobs

Whose idea was it?

Well, it's Blizzard's game, so I'm going to have to go with...

Blizzard.

[Sorrior]

you get 2000 charity rep with each of the two factions for free every week. And then probably 3000+ from each per week from Order Hall missions. It takes no time at all, especially given the huge buff to rep gain.

You are assuming you even GET these factions this often.

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It's a one time, account wide thing.

Aren't all the requirements for the Allied Races pretty much equal?
Imagine you're a fresh account. Unlocking Highmountain and Nightborne will take just as much time if not more to unlock with the rep grind and the meta achievement requirements.

Maybe Lightforged Draenei actually having it easer since the Argus campaign is pretty straightforward.

Yeah but argussian reach is a massive pita and rng 0lsys FAR too large a part imo.

Give us an actual non rng way to farm.

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- Argus has been out for a long time now.
- There's tons of rep from WQ that offer BoA rep tokens (yes Bind on Account by default) = 500 rep
(Mail your tokens to your desired character, or save up tokens for darkmoon faire or human buffs)

- Order hall board missions that offer 250+750 rep = 1000 rep
- Emmisary - 1500 rep
- Weekly quests - Recently buffed to 1000
- BoA rep tokens from invasion bosses (7.3.5)
- Argus Rare Elite WQ offer both reps now (7.3.5)

Almost all are either rng meets timegate however. How about letting us ACTUALLY farn rep old school by killing shit and turning in items or sonesuch. Like say 100 demon guts for 100-200 rep. Elites/rares drop more and raids drop far more varying by difficulty

Working for it but grindable

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And my counter is that Nightfallen was significantly nerfed after 7.2 when they allowed for a massive amount of their WQs to be completed without progressing the story. My counter is that you can start HM tauren rep at level 100.

It's not really that difficult to notice the differences between the Horde and Alliance unlock processes. They are far from equal right now, even if you are a fresh character. Another notable difference is Kirin Tor day, but everyone likes to pretend that doesn't exist anyway.

Tyey did add the argus rep to this one.

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I find it funny people still bitching that they still have to put a modicum of effort into a game to get a reward..

Uh huh...Watching your garrison and wq like a hawk is "effort" now huh? More like blizz trying to keep people busy longer between patches

[Lord Pebbleton]

Tying the subraces to certain requirements is an awesome idea.
It goes to show that your own character is in good terms with a certain race, and not only your main faction. The requirements could vary to make things more interesting. For example, to unlock dark iron dwarven, you could have to kill Thaurissan and Ragnaros, get exalted with the thorium brotherhood, and then have a little scenario where it shows that Moira has forgiven you for killing her lover since his ways would have been endless war, considers your standpoint since you killed Rag, and then the thorium brotherhood comes in and they say you're the best dude ever. Then she's convinced that you are a worthy ally and you unlock the subrace.

[Sastank]

Doing new content to unlock new content. Wah. Muh entitlement. These threads are really old and boring.

[Sorrior]

I came back maybe a month ago and I gotta say I absolutely hate how the system works.

It's not the rep grinding that bothers me, it's how that grind is done via an RNG-based system. Whereas before it took usually about 21 days to hit max reputation with a faction, now you've just got either hope you get the luck of the draw and get tokens from questing, invasions, or getting missions. While there are three sources, -all- of them are based on RNG. I haven't seen Army of Light emissaries roll around in about two weeks, meanwhile I see the reps that don't really give an allied race roll around all the time. By far, the easiest reputation to complete at the moment is Nightfallen because just the questing gets you almost to exalted, whereas most of the others dump you off, at most, midway through honored.

A few solutions to the RNG issues would just be having the allied race emissaries always up once every day and they don't give a cache, but give rep. Or at least having them be up at the beginning of each week independent of the daily emissary, or allowing their emissary to give more reputation than other emissaries. Or even Blizzard could fix the other reputations to work more like Nightfallen, where you're a little more than midway through revered when Suramar and Insurrection is done. Plus, the rep is supplemented by a guaranteed daily that lets you earn rep tokens.

It means I'm not just sitting on my hands for potentially several weeks waiting for the emissary I need to roll around. I do still complete class hall missions and keep my eyes peeled for the BoA token world quests, but I'm not especially lucky with them. :x (I do have a feeling they increased the chance for class hall rep tokens pop up though, since I saw about three HM missions, one Nightfallen, and two AoL / Argussian Reach token missions). Point is, if I'm earning the race, I do really want to feel like I'm actively earning it instead of pointlessly waiting for a chance to earn it.

SO MUCH THIS

Also my fix is add a drop to adds we can farm and turn in for rep old school. Raids obviously drop more but that way everything we do helps.or tabard system brought back i guests

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This is perhaps the most keen and straight-forward thing I've ever read on these forums. *grand applause*



My wife and I did play casually for around 4 months and have yet to gain exalted reputation with the factions. I disagree that grinding is an integral part of an MMORPG.

I purchased Legion to get my main to 110 and enjoy the core storyline, not to grind the same content over and over again. It's fair play that Blizz compels us to complete a storyline or series of quests relating to the respective factions but to also demand we grind content until we vomit from sheer repetition just so they can get that extra month or two of subbing out of us is pure unedited bullshit.

In summary, people play Wow in a variety of ways (some love the grind, some enjoy the core storyline only) which is the beauty of it all. So don't go force players to play in a specific way by locking races behind these very time-consuming and (IMO) obnoxious ways. You're fucked if you skipped Legion and want to start a fresh with these allied races but don't fancy doing the grind now that you've already paid for the new expansion.

Honestly is this even grinding? It is an rng based timegate. Since when is THAT grindong. Killong a few thousand mobs sure. Spending hours actually playing sure

Bit as is if your goal is the races. Log in log out bam done watch your phone. It is bullshit with ni way to actually progress outside the rng timegate.

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It's really not such a big issue. I have all factions at exalted across 3 characters and I'm a lazy player. I'm pretty much only doing class hall missions and the weekly quests because I want the shards.

From the countless threads that I read on the wow forums and here, those that complain are trying to get the rep needed in a single day or something. It's not going to happen. Instead, take a deep breath and play casually. You will get the rep in time.

Dailies and rewards locked behind rep was always a thing. Suddenly when it involves races (that should be considered as a reward for reaching exalted, like a mount or a tabard) ,people go mad.

If I was a returning player and I wanted to play as one of these races, it would suck, sure. I however, will just quest and get the rep needed untill I get it eventually.

When I started playing the game, I wanted the netherwing mounts, even though it belonged to the previous expansion (and was a long grind). Guess what? I actually did it instead of going on the forums and complaining that it takes some effort.

So how long would that be, exactly? Realistically, if you do everything you can daily?

No way to know due to rng and how many alts have argus fully unlocked.

Daily quests and mission table play a very big part as do the wq drops. Those make it night impossible to calculate

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It's really not such a big issue. I have all factions at exalted across 3 characters and I'm a lazy player. I'm pretty much only doing class hall missions and the weekly quests because I want the shards.

From the countless threads that I read on the wow forums and here, those that complain are trying to get the rep needed in a single day or something. It's not going to happen. Instead, take a deep breath and play casually. You will get the rep in time.

Dailies and rewards locked behind rep was always a thing. Suddenly when it involves races (that should be considered as a reward for reaching exalted, like a mount or a tabard) ,people go mad.

If I was a returning player and I wanted to play as one of these races, it would suck, sure. I however, will just quest and get the rep needed untill I get it eventually.

When I started playing the game, I wanted the netherwing mounts, even though it belonged to the previous expansion (and was a long grind). Guess what? I actually did it instead of going on the forums and complaining that it takes some effort.

from what?

Probably been answered but the weekly quest from illidan and turalyon

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It's really not such a big issue. I have all factions at exalted across 3 characters and I'm a lazy player. I'm pretty much only doing class hall missions and the weekly quests because I want the shards.

From the countless threads that I read on the wow forums and here, those that complain are trying to get the rep needed in a single day or something. It's not going to happen. Instead, take a deep breath and play casually. You will get the rep in time.

Dailies and rewards locked behind rep was always a thing. Suddenly when it involves races (that should be considered as a reward for reaching exalted, like a mount or a tabard) ,people go mad.

If I was a returning player and I wanted to play as one of these races, it would suck, sure. I however, will just quest and get the rep needed untill I get it eventually.

When I started playing the game, I wanted the netherwing mounts, even though it belonged to the previous expansion (and was a long grind). Guess what? I actually did it instead of going on the forums and complaining that it takes some effort.

Whose idea was it? Blizzards and their idiotic new Time Played metric. Instead of making content fun and actually enjoyable they are now making it take as long as possible so they can get their new Metric up to keep Investors happy.

Irony is this will probably do more harm then good.

A quality game has people playing a VERY long time just because it is thst good

A heavy dose of time gating and making people feel pressured to play leads to burnout and lower numbers long run.

Old blizz did quakity new blizz not so much

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It's really not such a big issue. I have all factions at exalted across 3 characters and I'm a lazy player. I'm pretty much only doing class hall missions and the weekly quests because I want the shards.

From the countless threads that I read on the wow forums and here, those that complain are trying to get the rep needed in a single day or something. It's not going to happen. Instead, take a deep breath and play casually. You will get the rep in time.

Dailies and rewards locked behind rep was always a thing. Suddenly when it involves races (that should be considered as a reward for reaching exalted, like a mount or a tabard) ,people go mad.

If I was a returning player and I wanted to play as one of these races, it would suck, sure. I however, will just quest and get the rep needed untill I get it eventually.

When I started playing the game, I wanted the netherwing mounts, even though it belonged to the previous expansion (and was a long grind). Guess what? I actually did it instead of going on the forums and complaining that it takes some effort.

The problem is not the Rep grind.
Its that Blizzard dictates how much grinding you can do, and how often.
The Highmountain at least has one way to farm it, by spamming Neltharion's Lair.

But other things? No. You're bound to a routine chore. X dailies per day. Every day. For months.

For example it took me 2 months to get pathfinder draenor.
Why? Cause you can only do it via dailies. A set amount of those.
Still grinding for Shieldwall Rep for that gryphon.
I would grind that shit in two days, but no. Dailies! Like a good obedient robot.

EXACTLY less us ACTUALLY GRIND not timegate us add in rng and so much worse

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It's really not such a big issue. I have all factions at exalted across 3 characters and I'm a lazy player. I'm pretty much only doing class hall missions and the weekly quests because I want the shards.

From the countless threads that I read on the wow forums and here, those that complain are trying to get the rep needed in a single day or something. It's not going to happen. Instead, take a deep breath and play casually. You will get the rep in time.

Dailies and rewards locked behind rep was always a thing. Suddenly when it involves races (that should be considered as a reward for reaching exalted, like a mount or a tabard) ,people go mad.

If I was a returning player and I wanted to play as one of these races, it would suck, sure. I however, will just quest and get the rep needed untill I get it eventually.

When I started playing the game, I wanted the netherwing mounts, even though it belonged to the previous expansion (and was a long grind). Guess what? I actually did it instead of going on the forums and complaining that it takes some effort.

This is very dirty move. Even more dirty, than gating flying behind 8 months of time and all this rep grinds. Logic is very simple: all, who hate current content, but plan to return in BFA to use it's major feature, i.e. Allied Races, have to pre-order and resub now, i.e. pay extra sub fees for obsoleted content, that actually was a reason of their unsub - i.e. for nothing. Game should be in disastrous state, if Blizzard start to use such F2Pish moves, as charging players for early access, gated behind obsoleted content.

As I've already said, if Allied Races are gated behind Legion content - then Blizzard shouldn't require pre-order to unlock them, as I have to pay sub fee for current content to unlock them. If this content is released now and requires current content to be unlocked - then, guess what? It's part of current content, not next xpack! How can they sell them twice? Otherwise they should remove rep requirements.

Honestly blizz should just go f2p at this point or b2p they are using emough mechanics and tricks those do

[blobbydan]

Title.

...not only can't you fly there...

Stopped reading here. Opinion discarded.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

someone that never played Timeless Isle in MOP lol

Timeless isle had no rep per day gating though you could just go ham and I loved it.

[ReleaseDay]

I only spent time with LEG for about 3 months and I got exalted with all factions. Can't see how this is an issue to anyone who played Legion tbh.

[Deleted]

So much story doing all those dailies, so much quest texts. Definitely agree.

First, there is a questline for each zone. Plenty of story. Second - it's an ongoing war against the Legion. This is best simulated by objectives which pop up now and then. Technically, for your character the war only stops when this character clears the Antorus raid for the first time. But since it's an MMO and different people / characters have different progress, these objectives have to be there even if you are done with the campaign and raid. Go figure.

[vsb]

First, there is a questline for each zone. Plenty of story.

Plenty of story to complete for one day and plenty of dailies to complete for next few monthes. I don't think that many people would complain if requirements were tied to quest chains instead of reputation.

Second - it's an ongoing war against the Legion. This is best simulated by objectives which pop up now and then. Technically, for your character the war only stops when this character clears the Antorus raid for the first time. But since it's an MMO and different people / characters have different progress, these objectives have to be there even if you are done with the campaign and raid. Go figure.

I don't feel any war, sorry. Developers failed to implement this feeling in the game. All I feel is AFK portal and boring zergfests.

[Vatheil]

Title.

How are we supposed to get rep from argus factions when they all come from world quests? Argus is the worst zone of all that Blizzard has ever done, not only can't you fly there, the zone is also packed so it seems like you can't take 2 steps before agroing 20 mobs that won't let you mount up unless you kill them all .

0 logic behind it, at least give us the ability to grind rep by kiiling those said mobs

must not have done all the content because there is other way to get Argus rep *womp womp*

[tyrlaan]

If you're complaining about needing rep to get Allied Races, then your actual problem is with the MMO treadmill and maybe you should stop playing the game.

[ryoko89]

I'm tired of seeing people say:

"Oh, you have to play the game! Oh no!"
"It takes literally a month"
"I already did it, so you should have to too."
"Blizzard doesn't owe you anything."

I completed the rep grind and I hated it. I didn't have fun. Rep grind was never fun for me, but I did it to get things like mounts and tabards.
I shouldn't have had to do it to play new races that start at level 20 and are features of the expansion. I paid for the expansion.
I did not want to pay an extra $50 for more legion content.

New races are a feature and they always have been. Just like new classes. Needing a character at a certain level is not the same thing as having to grind the same thing over and over for two months. I didn't need rep to play worgen, pandaren, blood elfs, or draenei. They did it to stretch out legion, which is fine. But give me the choice to pay or work.

Why can you people that want to grind to unlock features not want the rest of us not to?
So many people here yelling about selfish people wanting handouts when you are just as stubborn saying we should be forced to play exactly like you.

My friends want to play the new races. We want to level together. But they stopped playing when Argus came out and they will not play again if it means they have to jump on their old toons, grind gear, and grind optional gated quests to be able to make a new character.

I have a 9 to 5 that only allows me to play a couple of hours every Saturday. Same for them.

You can be shitty and tell me to get new friends or justify why we don't deserve to have the new races after paying for them because we aren't willing to put extra work into a game, which itself is completely asinine because games are meant to be fun, which is subjective, but to portray those of us that do not want to grind rep or think that the allied races should be playable from the start if you pay for the expansion as irrational/lazy is being completely obtuse.

I don't care if I have seven months to unlock them. My friends will not take time out of their lives to "work" in a game to unlock the fun part, and I don't blame them.
Your version of fun is different. That's fine. But you shouldn't blame them either.

Get rid of the rep requirement.

[ryoko89]

I'm tired of seeing people say:

"Oh, you have to play the game! Oh no!"
"It takes literally a month"
"I already did it, so you should have to too."
"Blizzard doesn't owe you anything."

I completed the rep grind and I hated it. I didn't have fun. Rep grind was never fun for me, but I did it to get things like mounts and tabards.
I shouldn't have had to do it to play new races that start at level 20 and are features of the expansion. I paid for the expansion.
I did not want to pay an extra $50 for more legion content.

New races are a feature and they always have been. Just like new classes. Needing a character at a certain level is not the same thing as having to grind the same thing over and over for two months. I didn't need rep to play worgen, pandaren, blood elfs, or draenei. They did it to stretch out legion, which is fine. But give me the choice to pay or work.

Why can't you people that want to grind to unlock features not fathom the idea of the rest of us not having to?
So many people here yelling about selfish people wanting handouts when you are just as stubborn saying we should be forced to play exactly like you.

My friends want to play the new races. We want to level together. But they stopped playing when Argus came out and they will not play again if it means they have to jump on their old toons, grind gear, and grind optional gated quests to be able to make a new character.

I have a 9 to 5 that only allows me to play a couple of hours every Saturday. Same for them.

You can be shitty and tell me to get new friends or justify why we don't deserve to have the new races after paying for them because we aren't willing to put extra work into a game, which itself is completely asinine because games are meant to be fun, which is subjective, but to portray those of us that do not want to grind rep or think that the allied races should be playable from the start if you pay for the expansion as irrational/lazy is being completely obtuse.

I don't care if I have seven months to unlock them. My friends will not take time out of their lives to "work" in a game to unlock the fun part, and I don't blame them.
Your version of fun is different. That's fine. But you shouldn't blame them either.

Get rid of the rep requirement.

[Lychee3000]

I'm tired of seeing people say:

"Oh, you have to play the game! Oh no!"
"It takes literally a month"
"I already did it, so you should have to too."
"Blizzard doesn't owe you anything."

I completed the rep grind and I hated it. I didn't have fun. Rep grind was never fun for me, but I did it to get things like mounts and tabards.
I shouldn't have had to do it to play new races that start at level 20 and are features of the expansion. I paid for the expansion.
I did not want to pay an extra $50 for more legion content.

New races are a feature and they always have been. Just like new classes. Needing a character at a certain level is not the same thing as having to grind the same thing over and over for two months. I didn't need rep to play worgen, pandaren, blood elfs, or draenei. They did it to stretch out legion, which is fine. But give me the choice to pay or work.

Why can't you people that want to grind to unlock features not fathom the idea of the rest of us not having to?
So many people here yelling about selfish people wanting handouts when you are just as stubborn saying we should be forced to play exactly like you.

My friends want to play the new races. We want to level together. But they stopped playing when Argus came out and they will not play again if it means they have to jump on their old toons, grind gear, and grind optional gated quests to be able to make a new character.

I have a 9 to 5 that only allows me to play a couple of hours every Saturday. Same for them.

You can be shitty and tell me to get new friends or justify why we don't deserve to have the new races after paying for them because we aren't willing to put extra work into a game, which itself is completely asinine because games are meant to be fun, which is subjective, but to portray those of us that do not want to grind rep or think that the allied races should be playable from the start if you pay for the expansion as irrational/lazy is being completely obtuse.

I don't care if I have seven months to unlock them. My friends will not take time out of their lives to "work" in a game to unlock the fun part, and I don't blame them.
Your version of fun is different. That's fine. But you shouldn't blame them either.

Get rid of the rep requirement.

It's Blizzard's game. They can do whatever they want with their game. If they want reps to be tied to allied races, then that's their prerogative. They create the fun, not us. And fun is subjective. We do get to give feedback or suggestions but in the end, Blizzard decides on what to do with it. They can do exactly what the player is asking. Or they can alter whatever a player is asking by a bit so it can go in line with their vision for the game. Or they will completely disregard the feedback/suggestion because it does not go with their vision of the game.
I personally liked the rep grind. It made me realize that I have something to look forward to at the end.

This is how the game is. You accept it or leave it. You can give your constructive feedback/suggestions but that's all you can do.

And for the part where you said that why Blizzard is attaching rep grinds to allied races when there weren't any attached to the new races we get with the expansions... Blizzard can "change" their game in how they see it fit. They changed their minds on how they want the allied races to be accessed. Also, they are "allied" races and not new races so both of them have different criteria and requirement because that is what Blizzard has deemed it so.

[ryoko89]

It's Blizzard's game. They can do whatever they want with their game. If they want reps to be tied to allied races, then that's their prerogative. They create the fun, not us. And fun is subjective. We do get to give feedback or suggestions but in the end, Blizzard decides on what to do with it. They can do exactly what the player is asking. Or they can alter whatever a player is asking by a bit so it can go in line with their vision for the game. Or they will completely disregard the feedback/suggestion because it does not go with their vision of the game.
I personally liked the rep grind. It made me realize that I have something to look forward to at the end.

This is how the game is. You accept it or leave it. You can give your constructive feedback/suggestions but that's all you can do.

And for the part where you said that why Blizzard is attaching rep grinds to allied races when there weren't any attached to the new races we get with the expansions... Blizzard can "change" their game in how they see it fit. They changed their minds on how they want the allied races to be accessed. Also, they are "allied" races and not new races so both of them have different criteria and requirement because that is what Blizzard has deemed it so.

I will never understand people that feel the need to defend multi billion corporations like EA and Blizzard.

Like Paul Newman said, "Them poor old bosses need all the help they can get"

[ryoko89]

Completely missed my point to jump at the defense of Blizzard.

Blizzard does not need your help, and people like me who do not enjoy certain aspects of the game that you do enjoy are not trying to take your fun away. You would lose nothing if the rep requirement was there while the option to make the playable race a paid feature as it has always been was there for us as well. Meanwhile, I lose the ability to play with my friends who, again, are not interested in the same type of fun you are. I dont leave work to hop on a computer and do more work at home. I do not get satisfaction from "working towards something". I do that already and it is called a paycheck and a gym membership.

We are voicing our displeasure about the rep lock and all of you are shitting on us for it.

You and so many people keep missing the point to defend Blizzard.

I will never understand multi billionaire white-knights.

[ryoko89]

It's Blizzard's game. They can do whatever they want with their game. If they want reps to be tied to allied races, then that's their prerogative. They create the fun, not us. And fun is subjective. We do get to give feedback or suggestions but in the end, Blizzard decides on what to do with it. They can do exactly what the player is asking. Or they can alter whatever a player is asking by a bit so it can go in line with their vision for the game. Or they will completely disregard the feedback/suggestion because it does not go with their vision of the game.
I personally liked the rep grind. It made me realize that I have something to look forward to at the end.

This is how the game is. You accept it or leave it. You can give your constructive feedback/suggestions but that's all you can do.

And for the part where you said that why Blizzard is attaching rep grinds to allied races when there weren't any attached to the new races we get with the expansions... Blizzard can "change" their game in how they see it fit. They changed their minds on how they want the allied races to be accessed. Also, they are "allied" races and not new races so both of them have different criteria and requirement because that is what Blizzard has deemed it so.

What is the point of this reply other than for more Blizzard defense?
We are literally voicing our displeasure and you literally say we can voice our displeasure.

We know who makes the game lol.

[Deleted]

Meh I'm exalted on two characters by casually farming Argus when it released.