Another build another lack of demonology changes

[Deleted]

I don't want to sound like a doomsayer, but the lack of meaningful demonology changes, build after build, is getting concerning.

And this is for a spec that was specifically mentioned as a "not successful experiment" that Blizzard would rather have us "not play this expansion" and that was getting some "mayor reworks" unlike other "specs". Yet so far, the only spec that's getting major changes with each build is destruction.

Now, I have nothing against that - actually I think it's really great they are trying to make destruction fun again. Destruction, however, fell into the category of specs that "wouldn't receive any major changes" but so far had the most changes of all 3 specs.

What's happening? Is demonology so hard and time-consuming to rework or are we going to end up with another "we don't want you to play this spec - we might fix it next expansion"?

[Mirishka]

"I don't want to sound like a doomsayer but I'm going to make a topic in which I sound like one anyway."

Build after build? Its in alpha, tons of specs haven't seen much change or have missing talents or what have you. So stop acting like what's in the current build is what's going live. FFS.

[Bugg]

Blizzard: keeping the best for last!

[Toastiekins]

Understandable, but we are talking about a spec that was SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED as a failed experiment that is getting MAJOR CHANGES. Now, if one would introduce something completely new to a game, they would want to make sure it gets thoroughly tested from the start (in this case Alpha), but that is not happening yet spec that WEREN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED are getting major changes. How do you justify that mr. "Not a Blizzard defender"?

Holy shit no sweeping insane changes in the first few public builds of alpha the sky is fucking falling. There already have been changes, there will be more to come. You can reserve your gross overreaction for release if they change literally nothing from now until then (which we know they will, because the alpha demo is beyond broken atm).

[ComputerNerd]

Understandable, but we are talking about a spec that was SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED as a failed experiment that is getting MAJOR CHANGES. Now, if one would introduce something completely new to a game, they would want to make sure it gets thoroughly tested from the start (in this case Alpha), but that is not happening yet spec that WEREN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED are getting major changes. How do you justify that mr. "Not a Blizzard defender"?

There is nothing we have to justify.
You made an argument with no proof.
Only a complaint that your arbitrary idea of "progress" is not reflected in something you have no involvement with.
And no evidence that an alpha build is the only work ongoing.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Not seeing something does not mean it is not there.

And did you really have to resort to the childish fanboy accusation based on a single opinion.
You can be better than that.

[Challenge]

"I don't want to sound like a doomsayer but I'm going to make a topic in which I sound like one anyway.".

Nailed it

Also, i want people to stop saying blizzard called demo or survival a massive failed experiment. They said the 2 specs was not entirely successful. Specifically, they said thematically the specs was good and better but the gameplay could be improved. Which are facts. Stop pandering to only what you WANT to hear vs what reality is.

[Deleted]

Just gonna copy and paste my post from the 8.0 discussion.

You do realise thats a positive thing right???

No changes means a significant rework, its quite obvious they are getting the lion share of the destro/afflic changes out of the way as fundamentally those two specs are not really changing much. This and they are still to implement the spell animation changes as well as the casting animations. Once that's done they can give their full attention to demo. It's all about time and resources, so it makes sense to focus on the easy stuff first to free up more of that time and resources to give a concentrated push on actually getting Demo right this time, something they should have done in the first place in Legion.

TL: DR Don't get your titties in a twist just yet, there is still a lot of dev time left to work on demo, just chill and let them get to it in good time.

[Soluna]

I don't want to sound like a doomsayer, but the lack of meaningful demonology changes, build after build, is getting concerning.

And this is for a spec that was specifically mentioned as a "not successful experiment" that Blizzard would rather have us "not play this expansion" and that was getting some "mayor reworks" unlike other "specs". Yet so far, the only spec that's getting major changes with each build is destruction.

Now, I have nothing against that - actually I think it's really great they are trying to make destruction fun again. Destruction, however, fell into the category of specs that "wouldn't receive any major changes" but so far had the most changes of all 3 specs.

What's happening? Is demonology so hard and time-consuming to rework or are we going to end up with another "we don't want you to play this spec - we might fix it next expansion"?

While your concern is understandable considering Legion alpha/beta blizz behaviour, I'd say that you are jumping on the guns a bit too quickly. As you said, Demonology is a failed experiment, thus they are most likely trying to come up with something really good, instead of just make something good on paper, which is extremely bad in gameplay.

Meanwhile, destruction, and affliction to a lesser extend, have more changes because blizzard has a more clear vision of how to make them more fun. Death bolt sounds amazing for affli, removing it's artifact and its insane abilities will most likely bring it in line with other speccs, as well as removal of drain soul. Instead they get fun talents like shadow embrace and nightfall back.

Destro is getting tons of fun abilities too. I don't think you should worry, especially after we saw that 'grimoire of supremacy' is specc specific for destro, meaning that they are planning to make a unique grimoire for each specc. I wouldn't be surprised if Demo gets some new awesome demon

[MisterBigglez]

The spec is getting a compete rework, give it some time, its not going to be complete straight away. That being said, Implosion baselne...yes pls

[Kyoda]

Man, Ion is being all sincere with players. When he said that "we would rather don't want you to play Demo", he is literally saying that. Devs nerfed Demo in order to make players forgetting a bit of Demo and making pace for Demon Hunters. They obviously intended that, they nerfed by 25% decreased damage of all spells! What does that means for you?

When he is saying "not a successful experiment", he is confessing a mistake and agreeing with what players complained about, so that, they're working on it!

Btw, they have enough time for and the team is working faster than we ever had.

[Arainie]

21 September (final date, could come earlier as they mention Summer 2018 but still...) is well over 6 months away. I'd start worrying if there weren't any changes in 4 months.

EDIT:

Oh, and also, let's not forget this gem (it's not related tho this discussion, but still it gives you a good look on the future perspective of demonology)

I mean, you're calling someone out as basically being a blind fanboy and then you go and grab something that's completely out of context, after which Ion goes on and explains what he means by it. Tl;dr demo was too far ahead of the other warlock specs forcing everyone in to playing it even though they didn't want to. Now I wasn't playing warlock at this time and can't really comment on how the gameplay was, but your post is not entirely fair and just as biased as the person you're calling out (but in an opposite way).

[Demoros]

21 September (final date, could come earlier as they mention Summer 2018 but still...) is well over 6 months away. I'd start worrying if there weren't any changes in 4 months.

EDIT:

I mean, you're calling someone out as basically being a blind fanboy and then you go and grab something that's completely out of context, after which Ion goes on and explains what he means by it. Tl;dr demo was too far ahead of the other warlock specs forcing everyone in to playing it even though they didn't want to. Now I wasn't playing warlock at this time and can't really comment on how the gameplay was, but your post is not entirely fair and just as biased as the person you're calling out (but in an opposite way).

Well to be onest, at the begin of wod Demo was incredible OP, but to be OP you needed to play it damn good, 'cause it was easy to screw the rotation (i'm not saying it was the most difficult, but the damage payed the effort of its difficult!), affliction on the other side is not that difficult (the only requirement here is to be lucky) and maybe is stronger than demo was!

[wholol]

Understandable, but we are talking about a spec that was SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED as a failed experiment that is getting MAJOR CHANGES. Now, if one would introduce something completely new to a game, they would want to make sure it gets thoroughly tested from the start (in this case Alpha), but that is not happening yet spec that WEREN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED are getting major changes. How do you justify that mr. "Not a Blizzard defender"?

Blizz always keeps big spec revamp reveals for last, it's rather frustrating but that's how it's been for a few expansions.

[Arainie]

Well to be onest, at the begin of wod Demo was incredible OP, but to be OP you needed to play it damn good, 'cause it was easy to screw the rotation (i'm not saying it was the most difficult, but the damage payed the effort of its difficult!), affliction on the other side is not that difficult (the only requirement here is to be lucky) and maybe is stronger than demo was!

I think "everyone" agrees that Affliction is too strong atm, especially given it's simplicity. On the other hand you could make the same argument for Shadow S2M in early Legion. It was incredibly strong if played well, but your average Joe would simply die too early and end up at the bottom anyway. Being strong only when played to perfection isn't necessarily a good idea since it creates balancing problems that are more or less impossible to solve.

[Mamut]

Understandable, but we are talking about a spec that was SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED as a failed experiment that is getting MAJOR CHANGES.

Demo needs so huge revamp thats will probably be one of the last spec intorduced in the alpha/beta. Keep your doomsaying tho if you enjoy it.

[Rukario]

The end is coming!

HAHAHAHAHA I love that!!!!

"I knew it!"

[Challenge]

NOT ENTIRELY SUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT OK, let's analyses this statement for you since you seem to be unable to comprehend it by yourself. When a Game Director, a.k.a. the most important person in a game development, tells you publicly that a spec was NOT ENTIRELY SUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT that means it was a failed experiment. He won't use the word "massive failed experiment" because he used to be a LAWYER before joining Blizzard, so he knows his way with words. He publicly said the spec failed, but that's obviously not a good enough proof for you that the spec design failed. Oh well. I will stop replying to your comments because you are blindly enamored in the current iteration of demonology and nothing anyone says will make you think differently, so there is no point in replying.

Oh, and also, let's not forget this gem (it's not related tho this discussion, but still it gives you a good look on the future perspective of demonology)

EDIT: I really, really, REALLY wish to be proven wrong. And I hope I will be. But seeing how they handled this spec for the last 2 expansions, I can't really get my hopes high.

Ive already made a post, which you've posted in yourself, with several issues of demonology. I understand there is a lot of room to improve it. If anything that should tell you I'm one of the people most hyped for demo changes.

You made this thread for no other reason than to basically be a doomsayer. Theres literally nothing of value to be gained from this discussion since no one here is a developer and no one can tell you when or even if blizzard will make changes.

This thread is pointless, and is one of the reasons I label you and a few other choice frequent posters as "morons from it comes to anything demonology".

Are you going to make another thread every build there isnt major changes? If so I'll say this now, please dont cause I'd rather not read the same spam threads on the same topic from different posters.

[Drakile]

Whatever demo changes happen happen, it is what it is, but Id like to talk about Aff for a hot second, are we saying Aff has never had a big enough gap in dps between destro and Demo to deserve nerfs, to be told "don't play this spec"? Because I have never heard that phrase come from Blizzard since, nothing even close. Demo is not the worst spec in the game, but to say blizzard doesn't treat it like the red headed stepchild spec would be silly. Not complaining here just putting out numbers, Locks are one of the least played classes, with demo being one of the least played specs of one of the least played class, demo is fraction of a percentage of players, therefore it doesn't take top priority.

[Challenge]

Whatever demo changes happen happen, it is what it is, but Id like to talk about Aff for a hot second, are we saying Aff has never had a big enough gap in dps between destro and Demo to deserve nerfs, to be told "don't play this spec"? Because I have never heard that phrase come from Blizzard since, nothing even close. Demo is not the worst spec in the game, but to say blizzard doesn't treat it like the red headed stepchild spec would be silly. Not complaining here just putting out numbers, Locks are one of the least played classes, with demo being one of the least played specs of one of the least played class, demo is fraction of a percentage of players, therefore it doesn't take top priority.

Demonology has undergone heavy reworks in wotlk, cata, mop, and legion. 4 of 6 expansions. Blizzard doesnt care about the numbers on the least played spec on the least played class. That would be retarded anyways. Survival changes was heavy on the forefront, with good reason even it literally is the least played spec throughout legion.

[Gohzerlock]

Even with the impending rework it'll just be another imp mother spec anyway.