Saurfang and Anduin [Spoilers-Speculation?]

[Friendlyimmolation]

And why would he order them to observe?

If anything is makes the idea that the Alliance part is canon because, Anduin would know that the Horde is up to something and is convinced that it would be better to keep an eye on the them.

Why would he order them to observe if he knew what Sylvanas had planned?

His ignorance of what Sylvanas planned makes me think that no, the Alliance were not the canon ones to find the journal, unless that part was cut out of Stormheim like apparently other things were.

[Darktbs]

Varok is a close friend of Thrall and he seems to be on good terms with Baine... I don’t like the idea of another uprising, but if Saurfang goes against Sylvanas then he has people to back him up...

True, but it would be interesting for me to see characters question their actions.

[Frontenac]

The faction conflict is so retarded at this point... The Alliance is headed by Anduin, a peace-lover, why would he fight people he knows aren't evil like Saurfang and especially Baine (with whom he has had special contact)?

Yeah... Because wars are always fought because the other side is evil...

[Darktbs]

Why would he order them to observe if he knew what Sylvanas had planned?

Because the book miss certain information, it tells Sylvanas is searching for a power, but what power?And having more information is vital to take action.Thing Roger should know but hey...thats the price you pay when your commander put vendettas ahead of her duty.

[ello]

Lol. Do you hear yourself talking ?!?! The fleet was there for a stroll!?!?! Sylvanas is the boss of the fleet. They know ( its in the freaking cinimatics) that she is up to no good there. And she is there to enslave a people.

Genn, by his own admission, didn't know what Sylvanas' forces were doing in Stormheim

For the hord yes. For the alliance nope. And next to that. You just said that the fleet was there for peace. And not to help sylvanas and now you are contradicting yourself?!

I said the fleet was there to help the Horde player get the Aegis, and I proved it. Sylvanas went after her own b-plot, but the fleet was there for the Aegis.

Not the ingame info the alliance have. Again we are not talking about what we experience. Its about the ingame lore and reasons why Saurfang might hate/dislike the new warchief.

Actually I was talking to @Qualia about Genn's attack in Stormheim. He said it was minor, I said it was a major attack on an unprovoked fleet that had no intention of attacking the Alliance.

>>this is canon<<

But he did loose his army and was captured after a rebel forsaken used the blight to kills his army.

He wasn't captured. He died BEFORE Putress attacked because he ran into the Lich King like a dum-dum.

[dd614]

I think Saurfang is the kind of Orc who tries to avoid war and talk with the enemy, but if everything goes south he is the guy you can count among the frontlines.

He says as much in Borean Tundra. He comments to Garrosh that he remembers the slaughter he took part in previously and it haunts him.

[ello]

They're not killing off Sylvanas, it ain't happening and it's already been confirmed by like 3 devs that they're not killing off more horde faction leaders, could it be that they force her off the throne? Sure, but when BfA is on it's final patch, you still won't see a perma-dead Sylvanas.

Got a source? Just curious.

[VyersReaver]

Given that Saurfang only meets with Anduin during the escape as a means to give the Horde Champion, Rokhan, and Thalyssra a means to rescue Talanji and Zul I'd wager his loyalty remains to the Horde.

That's what he's doubting. I saw the scenario, and seeing as Anduin, Genn and even Jaina are onto our asses as soon as we leave the stockades is pretty suspicious. I am not really saying Saurfang betrays the Horde, but I am saying that he's full of shit, why else the hell would he REFUSE to run away with us?

[ello]

It would be interesting.

I imagine him being like:"I gave everything i had for the Horde and everything i have to show is a dead son, traumas of war and now my Warchief abandoned me to the mercy of a boy king"

- - - Updated - - -


They did.

Azsuna(before the scaling) is the first zone the players went to Level and there they can get the http://www.wowhead.com/item=122570/c...ueens-reprisal.

The Alliance knew Sylvanas was up to something

Genn didn't know what Sylvanas' forces were doing in Stormheim and he admits it.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post48858649

The quest you are talking about had no pertinent information and it could've happened after Stormheim for all we know.

Additionally, the Forsaken fleet had nothing to do with going after Eyir. It was explicitly sent to help the Horde PC retrieve the Aegis.

[Schattenlied]

Given that Saurfang only meets with Anduin during the escape as a means to give the Horde Champion, Rokhan, and Thalyssra a means to rescue Talanji and Zul I'd wager his loyalty remains to the Horde.

Or so he says.


Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn.

[Aucald]

Or so he says.


Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn.

Well, we do have to go by what he says lacking any other information. *Could* Saurfang have some kind of ulterior agenda? Sure, that's possible, but it still seems unlikely given what we know of his character.

That's what he's doubting. I saw the scenario, and seeing as Anduin, Genn and even Jaina are onto our asses as soon as we leave the stockades is pretty suspicious. I am not really saying Saurfang betrays the Horde, but I am saying that he's full of shit, why else the hell would he REFUSE to run away with us?

I don't think Saurfang would've turned traitor to those who offered to rescue him, though; that's not in keeping with his character. Besides, those who escorted Saurfang to Anduin also saw us in the Stockades - and given the carrying on and commotion inside the prison I don't think Saurfang would've even needed to sound the alarm to Anduin. It's pretty obvious from the context that the proverbial jig is up by the time Talanji and Zul are freed and are on way to the docks.

[Schattenlied]

Well, we do have to go by what he says lacking any other information. *Could* Saurfang have some kind of ulterior agenda? Sure, that's possible, but it still seems unlikely given what we know of his character.

His character is precisely why I believe he would... He is honorable to a fault, that is what he holds above all else, and if he feels that Sylvanas has gone off the deep end, that she is without honor and is not upholding what he feels is best for the Horde, he would turn on her just like he did Garrosh.

[vipers]

The faction conflict is so retarded at this point... The Alliance is headed by Anduin, a peace-lover, why would he fight people he knows aren't evil like Saurfang and especially Baine (with whom he has had special contact)?

Maybe we need to first know why and how the war started before we can see is it retared or not

[Darktbs]

Genn didn't know what Sylvanas' forces were doing in Stormheim and he admits it.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post48858649

The quest you are talking about had no pertinent information and it could've happened after Stormheim for all we know.

Additionally, the Forsaken fleet had nothing to do with going after Eyir. It was explicitly sent to help the Horde PC retrieve the Aegis.

Like i said, the book misses certain information, it says Sylvanas is going to take power from V...

Valarjar, Vrykul, Val'kyr, Something the alliance doesn't know but the Horde does?

There is a difference between:

-I Know you're doing something

and

-I know what you're doing.

[omeomorfismo]

or it coul be the most logical thing. he take the imprisonment personally as humiliation and want go to "speak" (read duel) to the death

[Deleted]

Yeah... Because wars are always fought because the other side is evil...

It is pretty much the case in Warcraft... First war? Demonic orcs. Second war? Slightly less demonic orcs. Third war? Zombies and demons.

Anduin and Saurfang should know from MoP that this isn't going to lead to any meaningful changes

[Biotec]

I wonder, is there any indication that Anduin ever finds out about Azurite's true nature, or if Saurfang knows?

Perhaps we could see a neutral effort from both parties to help purge their respective forces of those who intended to use Azeroth's blood for nefarious purposes. So maybe we are starting to see the pushback against the currently invisible third force of this expansion with Saurfang and Anduin rather than a MoP style rebellion

[Vladier]

I think Saurfang might actually choose to conspire against Sylvanas rather than challenge her to Mak'gora. Sure, he would challenge Garrosh but the thing is, Garrosh actually respected the rite of Mak'gora. If he thinks that Sylvanas is too dishonorable to properly participate (and, to be honets, she is), challenging her would be a death sentence. Although he would probably conspire within the Horde, he might also be afraid of Sylvanas having spies and assassins on every corner (Garrosh almost managed to assassinate Vil'jin and she is probably more skilled in intrigue) or he just doesn't want to sully the honor of his friends and would rather take the hit himself.

Or maybe Anduin has already talked to him and pointed out that the Alliance has an armed spaceship in orbit which can probably be configured to utilize Azerite in its systems for better effect. Sure, it would kill Horde civilians, and that is why he, Anduin, really doesn't want to use such a weapon, so why not help him depose Sylvanas? This is, admittedly, a very far-fetched theory as I can't see Anduin playing the part of a Bond villain, even the one who is morally good.

Another thing I want to point out is that the scenario stage featuring Saurfang and his desire to talk to Anduin is called "Honor and Loyalty". Sure, there is talk of honor but why loyalty? No one's loyalty is questioned in that exchange. Maybe it's a subtle narrative clue that the "end" in the name is implicit "or". Or that Saurfang's loyalty is to the Horde's and his honor and with doubts over the former's honor he only has his own to be loyal to. While there is no voiceover, he doesn't seem too happy that the group is actually sent to rescue Talanji and Zul. He explicitly refers to them as "the ones you are after" and after that goes to speak to Anduin over protests of the others. Later, Rokhan says that someone ratted them out when they fall into Genn's ambush, again implying that there is a traitor in their midst (sure, there is Zul, but he didn't yet betray them, and his actual loyalties aren't to the Alliance).

[ello]

Like i said, the book misses certain information, it says Sylvanas is going to take power from V...

Valarjar, Vrykul, Val'kyr, Something the alliance doesn't know but the Horde does?

There is a difference between:

-I Know you're doing something

and

-I know what you're doing.

@Friendlyimmolation said "The Alliance did not know Sylvanas's goals.", and you said :

They did.

By Genn's own admission, you were wrong. The only thing they knew is that she was there and looking for something that started with the letter "v". At the very beginning it's obvious Genn and rodgers are looking for a reason to fight

Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: I strongly suspect the situation will demand it.
Genn Greymane says: It had better.
Genn Greymane says: I am not in the habit of tracking prey unless I intend on killing it.

They even went against orders to do so.

[Aucald]

His character is precisely why I believe he would... He is honorable to a fault, that is what he holds above all else, and if he feels that Sylvanas has gone off the deep end, that she is without honor and is not upholding what he feels is best for the Horde, he would turn on her just like he did Garrosh.

I would agree, but Saurfang feeling as though Sylvanas has gone off the deep end isn't in evidence from anything we've seen or heard thus far. He fights for her at the Undercity siege, rallies to her cries of "For the Horde," and generally conducts himself with strong Horde loyalty until taken prisoner by Anduin (up to and including his request to be killed on the battlefield). Your argument implies things that might be possible but aren't in evidence yet - so with that in mind, I'm of the opinion Saurfang retains his original loyalties and his behavior in the Stockades was part of the ploy to get Zul and Talanji free (e.g. the "prize" he knows Sylvanas would be interested in). His reasons for remaining, for the time being, are simply his own.