Goddamnit not again.
Goddamnit not again.
The Human Rights convention is strange, they act like its some universal mandate from Heaven, handed down on stone tablets from Mt. Sinai or something, edicts from a burning bush or whatnot. Not the intermittenly enforced and followed document created by the victorious powers after a bloody war and rarely if ever followed by those powers.
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
Some people just shouldn't be allowed to live due to the acts they commit.
It wouldn't be doing the same things that they did back to them in any capacity.
You keep using words you have no idea what they mean. Civilized world does not mean no death penalty.
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
And from the point of view of the victims and their families, they wouldn't have had the justice they felt they deserved and the retribution they felt she deserved.
If the deciding factor for whether or not we have the death penalty, in your opinion, is people's feelings... Then I vote the victim's feelings.
What's the fix for killing someone you later discover is innocent? Pretty sure it's vastly superior to have to wrestle with how you compensate someone for wrongfully imprisoning them, which there's tons of court cases on if you actually are interested, than it is to have zero recourse because someone was murdered after spending years in prison. What she's going to do is hopefully be compensated enough to enjoy the remainder of her life outside of prison with the help of friend's and family. But more importantly not be dead because she was wrongfully convicted. Seriously unless you're just wondering out loud this was a horribly stupid point to bring up in response.
Not to mention because of the possibility of killing an innocent person/the appeals process Death Row prisoner's are quite expensive and iirc much more so than life in prison. There's literally no upside to killing someone except to satiate the petty vengeance some people have. And I say that fully believing there are crimes that deserve death as a punishment but because of the aforementioned cost and I'd much rather let a few jerks rot in prison than wrongfully kill a single person it's a pointless practice that needs to be abolished.
The victim in this hypothetical is the person who was wrongfully imprisoned. You do know that right? You're voting we should risk killing innocent people not for justice but for feels.
I personally prefer a system where you're innocent before proven guilty and where wrongfully punishing innocents is worse than letting a guilty person walk. You seem to take the opposite approach where as long as we get the guilty people who cares if innocent people get caught in the crossfire! Long as it's not you eh.
Also what is with people and this attitude that life in prison is some magical paradise? Prison sucks pretty hard in the US.
Last edited by shimerra; 2018-02-10 at 10:37 PM.
“Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
"Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
Ambrose Bierce
The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
I never made such an argument.
And some crimes deserve a death penalty. That's the end of my opinion. If you rape and murder someone, if you murder a police office, if you murder children, if you murder multiple people, if you are a terrorist, etc... You deserve to die. Its that simple in my opinion.
I trust the modern legal system. Its 2018. They can't lock you in an interrogation room for 48 hours and coerce an incoherent confession out of you and then drudge up a shaky eyewitness and have those two things alone be enough for a conviction like they could back in the day. Not only is the burden of proof itself beyond a reasonable doubt, but to get the death penalty today the crime requires aggravating factors which also have their own burdens of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And there are so many civil/human rights groups watching the justice system's every move, so much media, both social and mainstream, etc., watching. Everything is scrutinized to such an extent that I genuinely believe it is nearly impossible for someone to be wrongfully sentenced to death in this day and age in the US.
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
With regard to bold, in the last decade or two? Zero. If you are one of the .00001% of people wrongfully sentenced to death, you need only write one of the 20 different justice projects and they will bend over backwards to prove your innocence and hold you up as an example of why we should abolish the death penalty.
And it is, as you put it, economical, if you believe as I believe that there is a negligible risk to the innocent in this day and age. Your argument would be valid in the 50s. It would be valid in the 70s. It would be valid even in the 90s. It is not valid today, in my opinion.
Aggravated murderers/terrorist/etc., do not deserve a long, healthy, and comfortable life in a jail cell; that is not adequate punishment, once again, in my opinion.
In what way?
Three meals a day, a bed, heating and cooling, medical care, recreation activity, protection from other inmates, etc., etc... Not providing all of these things is considered cruel and unusual punishment today.
They will live a better life than most people in the world... And a hell of a lot better life than the life/lives they took.
Because you literally fucking brought it up...
Also let me get this straight?
Your entire argument hinges on protecting the innocent, yet you are ok with sending them to prison to be raped and abused?
By your logic that you are applying to the death penalty, we shouldn't send anyone to prison at all because innocent people would suffer there.