Hardcore casuals ruined leveling

[SirCowdog]

I disagree, and think the level ranges should have been smaller.

Scaling is never going to make for an equal experience at all levels.
Because the difficulty goes though a progression beyond just bigger numbers.
The abilities of mobs, and the content of a zone is aimed at the original level.
A player at 60 has vastly more tools than a player at level 10 and so their experience in the same zone isn't going to be equalised by any number scaling.

Then maybe set minimum levels like there are now, but make it so they all scale up to 100? That way a person could continue to play in whatever expansion they want. Because right now there's no way you'll finish all the zones in an expansion before having to move on.

For instance, why couldn't I continue to level up on Azeroth instead of being forced to jump off to TBC or WotLK after lvl 62 or so(that's the level where exp takes a nosedive)?

[Mifuyne]

What is a hardcore casual?
A casual that is hardcore or a hardcore player that is casual.

[Akachan]

Annnnnnnd now you're being stupid again. Lol. My complaint was not about how long it takes to level up. It was to point out the disparity in power between questing and dungeon lfd with regards to experience gain and how one was adversely affecting the other. The fact that you posted a guide showing how to level is completely irrelevant to the argument. It doesn't address what I said at all. My position has always been that one should be able to, if he chooses, level up as fast using the lfd system as he does with zone questing. And the fact that you could with the previous system and can not with the current system shows that something is broken with the current system. How does showing a guide that lists PRIMARILY different zones to quest in COUNTER what I said?

Have you had enough logic and debate for one day? Okay bud, take it easy.

[SirCowdog]

Annnnnnnd now you're being stupid again. Lol. My complaint was not about how long it takes to level up. It was to point out the disparity in power between questing and dungeon lfd with regards to experience gain and how one was adversely affecting the other. The fact that you posted a guide showing how to level is completely irrelevant to the argument. It doesn't address what I said at all. My position has always been that one should be able to, if he chooses, level up as fast using the lfd system as he does with zone questing. And the fact that you could with the previous system and can not with the current system shows that something is broken with the current system. How does showing a guide that lists PRIMARILY different zones to quest in COUNTER what I said?

Have you had enough logic and debate for one day? Okay bud, take it easy.

Whatever "logic and debate" you think has merit is completely wasted when you open by calling the person you're arguing with "stupid".

You want to use LFD, what does the guide say to do? Read it again. It says to queue up using LFD. The writer even points out that he was DPS, and that a tank or healer would have had a better time of it, and it would make up the majority of the leveling.

As I've said before: The solutions and options are there. You just don't want to recognize them and admit that your point of view is unreasonable.

[Banquetto]

If the forums are to be believed, leveling from 1-110 takes up to 42 hours of /played in 7.3.5. My anecdotal evidence suggest that it takes 28 hours, but that's using optimal leveling paths and popping XP potions all the way from 1-85.

Yeah, and it used to take way over a hundred hours to level from 1-60. I remember when someone announced a "world record" of 4 days 20 hours /played, and nobody stepped up to claim that they'd done it faster.

Please, put a sock in your ridiculous hyperbole about how slow leveling is now. I am leveling a void elf and a lightforged right now, and it is lightning fast compared to almost the entirety of the games 13+ year history.

[hulkgor]

If the forums are to be believed, leveling from 1-110 takes up to 42 hours of /played in 7.3.5. My anecdotal evidence suggest that it takes 28 hours, but that's using optimal leveling paths and popping XP potions all the way from 1-85.

In 42 hours you can also do one or more of the following:

• Participate in 14 standard raid nights (enough to clear heroic and be anywhere from halfway to 2/3 into clearing mythic)
• Bring a freshly dinged level 110 character from 800 ilvl to 930 and beyond
• Achieve 2k+ rating in PvP
• Complete all meta raid achievements
• Push a M+ key enough to appear on the leaderboards
• Watch 20 movies or finish 2 AAA games

As of 7.3.5, leveling is by far the MOST obnoxious grind in this game. You get to slog through 6 expansions' worth of outdated content at a snail's pace just to reach endgame. Getting your new alt raid-ready is a joke in comparison. People seem to misunderstand why leveling was so fast prior to 7.3.5. When you have an endgame-centered MMO, you can't force people to play through ALL of the outdated content. That's just too big of an investment to unlock the endgame.

Making zones scale was a step in the right direction, nuking heirlooms and other XP-enhancing items was 10 steps back. I'm not someone who gets discouraged easily; I wiped 500+ times on mythic Kil'Jaeden before killing him. Slogging through outdated content broke me. Listening to hardcore casuals who have the time to level 24/7 but can't play endgame for x reason is BAD. Making leveling 1-110 take 2x or even 3x longer was a dumb decision.

Such an hardcore raider like yourself should already have every class at 110! Why would this leveling change affect you, sir?

Also, watching 20 movies whilst leveling is amazing! \o/

[Dormie]

All this fuss is a result of them nerfing leveling to the ground to begin with. Remove the value of max level toons and impatient people will just see the leveling process as a chore.

[Ojocuervo]

Yeah, and it used to take way over a hundred hours to level from 1-60. I remember when someone announced a "world record" of 4 days 20 hours /played, and nobody stepped up to claim that they'd done it faster.

Please, put a sock in your ridiculous hyperbole about how slow leveling is now. I am leveling a void elf and a lightforged right now, and it is lightning fast compared to almost the entirety of the games 13+ year history.

First of all, leveling 1-60 was slow cause you had no mount and most quest lines were broken, forcing you to travel throw the whole map for 2 quest WALKING IT.
Also, that was the NEW content.

I'm shocked 100-110 can go in a couple of hours without getting bored even if I've done it 6 times. But leveling 20-60 it's a nightmare; EVEN if I bought every single heirloom my character still feels like does NO damage at all.

If you want to level up like ogaboga 1-60, go to a pirate server and enjoy your broken experience.

[tratra]

tbh OP might be coming off strong, but he is right.

They should have increased the experience needed to lvlup to what they have it now, but they should also have had heirlooms having their % increased to reflect a much faster experience.

That way you could just choose if you want to go slow or fast and do it on your own pace. People that love fast leveling would just equip their heirlooms and people that want to enjoy storylines and explore all the zones etc would just not use them.

[Boogieknight]

Well I hate to say it, but people asked for this for like 6 years. You all say they never listen to the community. I think this patch is a clear example of the problems within that topic.

I think Cataclysm was the first shot fired on that front. After years of "but I liked it when a heroic dungeon took over an hour and required coordinated CC to complete" on the forums we got crap like Halls of Origination and Grim Batol (that was so disliked several players flat out refused to find the entrance to the dungeon so that it was never unlocked for them to get as a result in LFD.) Every so often Blizzard looks at the demands and caters to them exactly like they want and it blows up in their face spectacularly.

On topic though I'd say "hardcore casual" is more a description of players that don't participate in end game (either because they don't have the ability or they can't meet the time commitments) so they use every other aspect of the game as a filler for them like level every class on both factions, collect every pet, complete transmog appearance collections, collect all the mounts, complete all the achievements you can, etc.

[Donald Hellscream]

You have an interesting definition of ruined.

[tratra]

Yeah, these people would never survive Classic. 15 days /played. 24 to 70 for a new person (and admittedly I screwed around a lot). In TBC and LK I would plan on about half a level per night (couple of hours each night).

Now... I get that what's fine the first time through is less fine the second and annoying the 12th... but at some point leveling you Nth alt becomes your burden, not the game's. I actually think that when leveling and gearing alts became so easy in Wrath, that it hurt the game as people expected to be able to easily have an army of alts all viable for endgame stuff. Mind you having 2 or 3? Yeah, that's reasonable. Expecting to have 10+? That's mental.

you can't compare classic to the abomination that this game has become.

Also leveling in classic was fun. You needed easily 150+ hours of playtime to reach max level if you were a speedmonster for other people they needed easily 200+ hours
That said during classic leveling was quite different, endgame and leveling wasn't so far apart. Heck getting BiS pre-bwl gear running maraudon at lvl 50 was good stuff.

Can't compare todays leveling at all. First of all there aren't other people around you with that stupid sharding, you see a few guys here and there but feels so disconnected. Same applies to running dungeons... people don't even say hi to each other, no friendships made.

Really I made around 5 close good friends in vanilla. Since then i'd say i kept in touch with only 1 of them. Other than that after cata i'd say i never even met someone to hang out in game with, its just a very disconnected environment i feel.

[Lumineus]

What is a hardcore casual?
A casual that is hardcore or a hardcore player that is casual.

I would presume it's someone who plays casually (little to no endgame participation) in a "hardcore" manner (50 alts, Ironman challenge, AH tycoon, etc)

[thealmightymoo]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

Is that someone who plays two hours a day whilst high five-ing his bros drinking red bull?

[ComputerNerd]

Then maybe set minimum levels like there are now, but make it so they all scale up to 100? That way a person could continue to play in whatever expansion they want. Because right now there's no way you'll finish all the zones in an expansion before having to move on.

For instance, why couldn't I continue to level up on Azeroth instead of being forced to jump off to TBC or WotLK after lvl 62 or so(that's the level where exp takes a nosedive)?

My issue is the upper limits largely, but as you point out the minimum also has issues.
Dun Morogh is not going to offer an equal experience at level 5 and level 60.

I felt an extension of their level ranges upwards was enough in many cases.

[SirCowdog]

Yeah, and it used to take way over a hundred hours to level from 1-60. I remember when someone announced a "world record" of 4 days 20 hours /played, and nobody stepped up to claim that they'd done it faster.

Please, put a sock in your ridiculous hyperbole about how slow leveling is now. I am leveling a void elf and a lightforged right now, and it is lightning fast compared to almost the entirety of the games 13+ year history.

Exactly. I think my fastest time to 60 in vanilla was a hair under 7 days /played. That's ~160 hours.

Compared to now, where even a slowish level up process is about 50-60 hours, with MANY faster methods of around 24 hours? Yeah, it's not slow at all. People are just spoiled.

- - - Updated - - -

Also leveling in classic was fun.

Fun is highly subjective.

As for the social aspects, the entire gaming community has changed. Gamers 10 years ago were a different demographic entirely. You can't simply point at how the game has changed without also acknowledging how the community has changed as well.

- - - Updated - - -

My issue is the upper limits largely, but as you point out the minimum also has issues.
Dun Morogh is not going to offer an equal experience at level 5 and level 60.

I felt an extension of their level ranges upwards was enough in many cases.

Hmm...I tend to agree with the point about Dun Morogh. But on the other hand, as many people have made the case: "Players should be able to choose where and how they level up".

I wouldn't have a problem with someone sticking around in starter zones if that was their jam. After all, there are other methods of leveling more quickly, which are far more boring(using a 110 to powerlevel, for instance).

I don't really see the issue.

[Gforcez]

If you can't be arsed with leveling.. buy a boost. It's why they exist in the first place.

[Okatan]

If only there was a service you can buy to boost your new character to max level...

[chiddie]

Yep. I can't believe we live in a world of video games where 42 hours is "too long" compared to the 30 days-2 months it could take in MMOs before WoW. And hell the month it could take in Vanilla if you were slow.

My installation must have some problems , I miss the part where every time i reroll quests and maps change like in Diablo.

What? They don’t change? Then after the third reroll every hour wasted on levelling is, in fact, wasted.

[chiddie]

If you can't be arsed with leveling.. buy a boost. It's why they exist in the first place.

And what if 1-110 would normally take 10 hours and you should be forced to buy a gimp in order to slower it to 40-50 hours?

Why it’s us that would like things as they were before be the one that have to pay?