Missing the 10 man Raids

[Deleted]

Bespoke 10 man content needs adding to the game, not 10 and 20 man raiding of the same instance. Not getting rid of 20 man raiding to make it 10 man.

Blizzard has turned away from trying to be the protecting hand, no longer really trying to stop players who want to push excessively hard from being able to do so. It'd be nice to have more content to turn your hand at.

Unless its a part of their design philosophy going forward (such as losing both 10 and 25 in order to have 20 man raiding) no one is losing content they enjoy, Blizzard spends its time looking for new content to add that players will enjoy. With procedural generation, there's no reason why some new content could not be developed with a new niche that is the challenge 10 man mythic would be.

I much prefer 20 man over 10 man, but I'm not a fan of saying "suck it up you've gotta get used to 20 man" because it doesn't help. I don't oppose 10 man content, if there was 10 man content in the game on the odd weekend here and there no doubt I'd smash through it with some friends as well. I still miss that during the weekends of ICC we'd have a small group from our 25 man raids who would usually go and do late night Ulduar 10/Trial 10 raids.

[Deleted]

My guild has 6 solid players that are waiting for 10 man mythics to return, i'm not recruiting 25-30 people again after i done so in SoO it's too hard to please them all. There's always a couple of slackers and no shows that just destroy the raids being so unreliable....

would love a return to 10 man raiding

[klaps_05]

My guild has 6 solid players that are waiting for 10 man mythics to return, i'm not recruiting 25-30 people again after i done so in SoO it's too hard to please them all. There's always a couple of slackers and no shows that just destroy the raids being so unreliable....

would love a return to 10 man raiding

A guild roster is only as good as its management.

[Deleted]

I liked 10man more but I understand why they went with 20. I wish 10man highest difficulty content would return; we'd have an insane roster with full psychosis for that shit just waiting to be unleashed. It's just too hard to find 20players that
1) can and want to raid together
2) prioritize guild over themselves
3) aren't absolute fucking grandmas when it comes to actually playing the game
4) don't have legit autism and/or the mental maturity of a 14 year old rebellious teen

[Tipton]

Have you seen the class buff changes in BfA. 10 man is not only dead and buried, they're building a discotheque on the grave site.

[Nitros14]

Have you seen the class buff changes in BfA. 10 man is not only dead and buried, they're building a discotheque on the grave site.

Glorious. I'd like to see a sign on top that says "Haha fuck you" too but that's probably out of reach.

[turlockmike]

Dude, I was literally just saying this and came to the forums to petition blizzard. 10 mans are amazing. Please bring them back. I don't care if the rewards are 5 or even 10 ilvls lower, I care about progressing on mythic with close friends and not having to bring strangers.

[ComputerNerd]

Why is tight balancing (which, lets be real, only applies to about 10 guilds) is more important than the ease and inclusion that flex mythic will bring to the table? Right now you're forced to have a larger than 20 roster and end up benching people every single night. Or someone can't make it and bam, 19 other players have nothing to do.
It doesn't even have to be 10-30. Just give some leeway from the strict 20 and only 20 version. It's an outdated concept at this point. Basically, the relelvant-to-100-people WF race is taking precedence over offering a better experience to thousands of mythic guilds.

Because then it isn't consistent.
Simple as that.
The problem is NOT the size of mythic, but that it is different.
Something which you could and should say is equally wrong with other formats.

Anything that isn't a fixed size for Mythic isn't going to be comparable or fair.
There will always be an easier route should there be different options.
That is unavoidable.
And that destroys the meaning of mythic as meaning something.

[HyperJay]

Eonar is a 10 min snoozefest and could easily be redesigned into something more intresting so thats a rather poor example. Having absolute balance beteen different raid sizes might be hard but who cares? ToS was easiers with 5+ rogues, should we also put an aboslute value on number of classes allowed inside the raid?

I'm not sure what you mean with that last sentence but I'm fairly certain that the game would be better off with a flex system.

If you changed Eonar for 10 man mythic heres your options.
Option 1) Make the energy per add a LOT more, reduce the final doom casts to 2 and therefor make EVERYONE only do 10 man ever and never 20 because it would take less time.
Option 2) Make the final doom casts require two people with 4 casts with an increased energy amount or reduced ad amount.

Again. Bosses arent just "reduce the damage done and damage the boss takes before dying ez". Some bosses need to be fundementally changed for mythic and thats expecting way to much from a 77 day schedule they seem to want to adopt.

[Aggrophobic]

If you changed Eonar for 10 man mythic heres your options.
Option 1) Make the energy per add a LOT more, reduce the final doom casts to 2 and therefor make EVERYONE only do 10 man ever and never 20 because it would take less time.
Option 2) Make the final doom casts require two people with 4 casts with an increased energy amount or reduced ad amount.

Again. Bosses arent just "reduce the damage done and damage the boss takes before dying ez". Some bosses need to be fundementally changed for mythic and thats expecting way to much from a 77 day schedule they seem to want to adopt.

Yeah or just make another boss fight. Eonar is a poor example as the boss is a walkover on any difficulty and just a poorly designed "boss" overall.
I also highly doubt that the design the entire raid within thoes "77" days you speak of.

[ydraw]

10 man raiding was great because you took the best 10 players of your 25 man roster and smashed face.

And that was the problem.

[fallenangel-succ]

Because then it isn't consistent.
Simple as that.
The problem is NOT the size of mythic, but that it is different.
Something which you could and should say is equally wrong with other formats.

Anything that isn't a fixed size for Mythic isn't going to be comparable or fair.
There will always be an easier route should there be different options.
That is unavoidable.
And that destroys the meaning of mythic as meaning something.

So is bringing 0 melee and 5 affliction locks to Coven. There are already easier and harder modes to mythic raiding. If it was all about balance, we'd have raids with templated setups and gear.
Think outside of the box for a second and understand there are other considerations rather than a rather-imaginary sense of balance. It's a game, it's not meant to be a job. The sense of accomplishment won't diminish because you killed a boss with 18 or 21, the same as it doesn't when you sit your melee or bring in 4 rogues for ToS.

[Rioo]

10 man raiding was great because you took the best 10 players of your 25 man roster and smashed face.

And that was the problem.

I liked 10-man more because what I did mattered more. When I learned when to save and when to pop my CDs on a particular boss I would notice the difference not only on my personal DPS, but the success of the whole try. As a raid group you also had to deal with more mechanics, as the tactic on 25-man for most things were "stack and pop raid CDs" (giving everyone a raid CD is a separate topic, I know, but it made 25-man a lot less fun).

A counter-argument I often hear is "Why not have 5/3/1-man raids then heuheu", but when I was still raiding hardcore I liked having a co-tank, a small healing team or other druids to discuss role/class specific tactics with between tries.

[Nitros14]

First the 20-man raiders destroyed 40-man. Then the 10-man raiders destroyed 25-man. Now you guys want to destroy 20-man too? Can't you just go away? Blizzard finally realized you guys were wrecking the raiding game. About time too.

[SpikeySquad]

Wish we had the ability to do mythics with 10 people as well as 20. It's crazy how hard it is these days to get a steady 20 to raid enough to really progress.
Anyone else desire the small raid size options for those guilds that just can't seem to reach that magic 20.

I am sure it has been mentioned before i just know we currently sit on 10-15 people at most that can raid together and its hard to pug on mythics on same server.

Just a few thoughts let me know how you feel thanks.

For 4 expacs now my raiding guilds have collapsed as on a low pop server we haven't been able to recruit faster than we lose people. It is so frustrating.

[Vestig3]

Im a great believer that for the hardest content there should only be one difficulty, im fine with it if they bring 10man back but then make it easier and less rewarding then 20man otherwise it gets in the way to much.

[Deleted]

I miss 10 man as well. It was so much more fun than this 20 man mythic garbage that we have now.

Yeah 10 man in cata was great, if you haven't got class x for a certain fight it was gg.

[Deleted]

Do I miss 10 man raiding yeah based purely on the fact it's easier to make a tight knit group of 10 then it is 20 however can i see it coming back anytime soon no, so i just got used to 20-man.

[fallenangel-succ]

Yeah 10 man in cata was great, if you haven't got class x for a certain fight it was gg.

[ydraw]

Im a great believer that for the hardest content there should only be one difficulty, im fine with it if they bring 10man back but then make it easier and less rewarding then 20man otherwise it gets in the way to much.

It was already easier and less rewarding (10 man heroic awarded same ilvl loot as 25 man normal). But it started to break guilds. Because what inevitably happened is that the best 10 players would form a 10-man team on off nights and this led to a lot of guild drama.

A similar thing happens now with M+ cliques in guilds, but 5 people having a run to themselves is not as big of a problem as 10 people doing it.