Alliance Players DID NOT Save Suramar

[RobertMugabe]

During the Thalyssra introductory cinematic you can hear the music from Nordrassil (Cata) playing. That's some irony right there since she later is involved in burning down Teldrassil.... traitor.

And for what? Some snarky comment from Tyrande. Oh please.

Oh do we know that already?

[Deleted]

I been seeing this over and over and over..... All the allied race threads, BFA lore threads..... Alliance players keep saying "well I saved suramar" talking about the Nightborne or Thalyssra.

SO I thought I'd clear it up: What is reflected in-game does not always portray the cannon story that is the back-bone this 20+ year franchise.
WHEN AN EVENT HAPPENS IN GAME THAT BOTH FACTION PLAYERS PLAY THROUGH IT'S FOR GAMEPLAY SAKE. BOTH Alliance and Horde Player-Characters get an equal game-play experience for a customer based product. SO for GAME-PLAY sake we all get the experience.

A small investigation in to the story and lore will give you context. Sometimes its Horde cannon sometimes its Alliance cannon... In this case.....

According to cannon lore it was a "Horde Champion" that did what our player character did.

So Alliance players you DID NOT save Suramar. Your faction partially helped along side the Horde, while the Horde champion was the one to do the player character action......

That combined with the haughty pride of the Night Elves pushed Suramar to the Horde. Alliance stop acting like you're the pride of suramar now a enemy...

Everyone may dream a pleasant dream in a dream my friend.

[Ulthane]

It really is pretty simple people always talk shit about how this dsnt make sense or how can bad diplomacy exist. Fkn lol look at the past 100 years of our own human history fucking stranger things have happened in our real world politically than they have in WoW.

^This, exactly. If you actually do both Horde and Alliance stories and have the time for you, you will see this is the case exactly.

[madokbro]

The whole "adventurer" thing doesn't really happen in the story. Adventurers do exist, but do you really believe the Lich King was defeated by some loot whores?

What we do in the game is really done by named faction champions in the lore, if not professional troops. You didn't clear Zul'Aman, the Darkspear Siame-Quashi did.

No one is entitled to a certain race for something their character did, this is not a single player rpg.

[Powerogue]

It's still hard to swallow as a night elf, especially with the Nightborne having Val'sharah refugees and members of the Moon Guard in Shal'aran, AND a night elf druid being the one to help them blossom the Arcan'dor which saved their race. Even without my personal involvement in the story they're certainly not given much reason to hate the night elves.

Then again the blood elves don't really have a reason to fight the draenei either ever since Velen helped them rejuvinate the Sunwell.

We just have to accept that, out of two benevolent factions that helped them in their time of need, one stayed behind to assist in the rebuilding effort and related to their struggles, and one was rigidly duty-bound and left when the job was done.

[Deleted]

The whole "adventurer" thing doesn't really happen in the story. Adventurers do exist, but do you really believe the Lich King was defeated by some loot whores?

No, he was defeated by Tirion and the Argent Champions. Adventurers are part of the lore, they are even used on the books.

[madokbro]

No, he was defeated by Tirion and the Argent Champions. Adventurers are part of the lore, they are even used on the books.

They are, but not in the sense of the legendary Death Knight "pwnzhordenabz" befriending the Alliance Expedition, building a motorcycle with their schematics, plowing his way through the Icecrown Citadel with it and killing the Lich King with his 24 other Human/Nelf Female buddies.

Staying true to the setting, the "adventurers" are named champions of factions, representatives of the military arms of various orders and mercenaries. They are almost never named to avoid QQ from players feeling a rather emotional attachment to the opposing faction, and to not devalue the in-game accomplishments of player groups. However, lorewise, there aren't a mysterious and godlike group of individuals that suddenly appeared during Vanilla, killing every world-ending threat while the armies of the world, not just the Horde and the Alliance, stand and watch on the sidelines.

"Adventurer" is PR speak for "We don't wanna hurt your feelings", and player-controlled narrative is almost never representative of lore in an MMO. Again, this is not a single player rpg.

[tru]

Pretty sure my human saved the woman that now wants to kill me. Some allied races should have been neutral others absolutely not. Nightborne were equal in both factions in the suramar story. I don't want them to be honest seeing what they look like now lol. But hey Ally got dark blood elves now.

[Logwyn]

Honestly, it probably should have been handled as a pandaren-style situation, with characters being free to choose which faction to side with.

After Elisande forced their people to side with the Legion, I can't see why Thalyssra would want to do the same.

Blizzard should have been bold and went with three factions.... One with the lunatics that Genn and company that are pro-Alliance...... another with all the lunatics on the Pro-Horde or die Sylvanas or die company...... Then another faction Thrall and Anduin led that looks at the other three and goes you guys are morons and this war thing is stupid.

But hey what do I know. Forced Horde vs. Alliance war is the greatest thing since sliced bread...

[Bladed0]

Both alliance and horde saved suramar. Nightfallen joined horde... just because.

No elf should ever be horde in the first place anyway, even blood elves being horde makes no sense.

Also Tyrande has a point, Suramar did infact side with the Burning Legion.

[Cassidin]

Amusing thread to be honest. A classic case of "My brother is bigger than your brother" etc. The Nightborne joined the Horde for one reason. It is exactly the same reason why the Void Elves joined the Alliance...... Blizzard wanted to give the Alliance a "Blood Elf" like allied race and wanted to give the Horde a "Night Elf" like allied race. That is ALL there is to it. All this talk about cannon this and cannot this - is irrelevant. Sure both Horde and Alliance both helped in Suramar (and I don't care which race secured the outskirts and which race went into the heart of the cite - they both helped), just like both helped Highmountain. Tyrande may have been a bit stuck up - but you do not make political alliances based on one person being stuck up. Of course this is what Blizzard have gone with - Tyrande was unfriendly - the Alliance was too walled in etc etc, but its bad writing to get around a situation they would not have been in if they had thought this out in advance better.

A faction that both help - should never be playable by one faction. That includes really ALL FOUR of the currently playable Allied Races. If they wanted to give the Horde a Nelf and the Alliance a Belf they should have done this to races that had NOT be major factions EVERYONE had been made to farm for a whole expansion. They should have at least made them a "shoot" of that faction. When they introduced the Goblins as a playable race - alliance had been building rep with goblins too - they had been a neutral faction. They got around this by making the Horde Goblins an offshoot - not the same goblins as the Steamweedle Cartel. That made it ok. They could have had an offshoot of Nightfallen that joined the Horde - but NOT Thalyssra and co.

Or they could have done what has been suggested. Make them neutral. Maybe make them like Pandaran - neutral till a certain level then you have to choose a faction even (although not sure that would work well either).

Quite simply, they should not have made playable races out of factions we ALL grind rep with.

In the end though - the REASON why they joined the horde - is not one of lore. It's a matter of gameplay: Blizzard wanted horde to have nelf and alliance to have belfs.

[xpose]

I been seeing this over and over and over..... All the allied race threads, BFA lore threads..... Alliance players keep saying "well I saved suramar" talking about the Nightborne or Thalyssra.

SO I thought I'd clear it up: What is reflected in-game does not always portray the cannon story that is the back-bone this 20+ year franchise.
WHEN AN EVENT HAPPENS IN GAME THAT BOTH FACTION PLAYERS PLAY THROUGH IT'S FOR GAMEPLAY SAKE. BOTH Alliance and Horde Player-Characters get an equal game-play experience for a customer based product. SO for GAME-PLAY sake we all get the experience.

A small investigation in to the story and lore will give you context. Sometimes its Horde cannon sometimes its Alliance cannon... In this case.....

According to cannon lore it was a "Horde Champion" that did what our player character did.

So Alliance players you DID NOT save Suramar. Your faction partially helped along side the Horde, while the Horde champion was the one to do the player character action......

That combined with the haughty pride of the Night Elves pushed Suramar to the Horde. Alliance stop acting like you're the pride of suramar now a enemy...

Actually Alliance did help but there was no trust from both sides so they went with horde. This was shown when doing the unlocking quest....


The stupid thing is that blizzard continues to divide races by making them all horde or alliance when we know its not black and white and there were people mixed in from both factions helping each other. One day I hope they make it so all players can be whatever they want.

[Deleted]

Amusing thread to be honest. A classic case of "My brother is bigger than your brother" etc. The Nightborne joined the Horde for one reason. It is exactly the same reason why the Void Elves joined the Alliance...... Blizzard wanted to give the Alliance a "Blood Elf" like allied race and wanted to give the Horde a "Night Elf" like allied race. That is ALL there is to it. All this talk about cannon this and cannot this - is irrelevant. Sure both Horde and Alliance both helped in Suramar (and I don't care which race secured the outskirts and which race went into the heart of the cite - they both helped), just like both helped Highmountain. Tyrande may have been a bit stuck up - but you do not make political alliances based on one person being stuck up. Of course this is what Blizzard have gone with - Tyrande was unfriendly - the Alliance was too walled in etc etc, but its bad writing to get around a situation they would not have been in if they had thought this out in advance better.

A faction that both help - should never be playable by one faction. That includes really ALL FOUR of the currently playable Allied Races. If they wanted to give the Horde a Nelf and the Alliance a Belf they should have done this to races that had NOT be major factions EVERYONE had been made to farm for a whole expansion. They should have at least made them a "shoot" of that faction. When they introduced the Goblins as a playable race - alliance had been building rep with goblins too - they had been a neutral faction. They got around this by making the Horde Goblins an offshoot - not the same goblins as the Steamweedle Cartel. That made it ok. They could have had an offshoot of Nightfallen that joined the Horde - but NOT Thalyssra and co.

Or they could have done what has been suggested. Make them neutral. Maybe make them like Pandaran - neutral till a certain level then you have to choose a faction even (although not sure that would work well either).

Quite simply, they should not have made playable races out of factions we ALL grind rep with.

In the end though - the REASON why they joined the horde - is not one of lore. It's a matter of gameplay: Blizzard wanted horde to have nelf and alliance to have belfs.

You... are right. We have indeed been debating semantics and that is the real situation. I guess we all roleplay a bit in these forums.

[corebit]

Using the OP's logic, Horde did not go to Argus and did not participate in Antorus making Alliance the sole faction to save Azeroth from Sargeras.

[garfeeld]

Using the OP's logic, Horde did not go to Argus and did not participate in Antorus making Alliance the sole faction to save Azeroth from Sargeras.

You're welcome

[Mic_128]

Using the OP's logic, Horde did not go to Argus and did not participate in Antorus making Alliance the sole faction to save Azeroth from Sargeras.

Please point at a single Horde-aligned NPC on Argus, not including Liadrin who was there as the representative of the Paladins and stayed on board the ship the entire time doing nothing.

[gobio]

ALL, every single one, of legion players are conditioned to play this game in a fantasy within a fantasy (AKA LIE). When so many NPCs tell you that you are "the one", you lead your order hall, you have the one and only artifact power of your spec. The second you exist your order hall, you immediate know this is nothing but a lie. You go forward this expansion by accepting this. Why pretend there is suddenly "lore" in any questline in this game anymore?

The weapon that you use, farm all those AP for months and months, is nothing but a lie, and "horde help nightfallen or not" bothers you? Really, wake up! you are still in limbo.

[Deleted]

They are, but not in the sense of the legendary Death Knight "pwnzhordenabz" befriending the Alliance Expedition, building a motorcycle with their schematics, plowing his way through the Icecrown Citadel with it and killing the Lich King with his 24 other Human/Nelf Female buddies.

Staying true to the setting, the "adventurers" are named champions of factions, representatives of the military arms of various orders and mercenaries. They are almost never named to avoid QQ from players feeling a rather emotional attachment to the opposing faction, and to not devalue the in-game accomplishments of player groups. However, lorewise, there aren't a mysterious and godlike group of individuals that suddenly appeared during Vanilla, killing every world-ending threat while the armies of the world, not just the Horde and the Alliance, stand and watch on the sidelines.

"Adventurer" is PR speak for "We don't wanna hurt your feelings", and player-controlled narrative is almost never representative of lore in an MMO. Again, this is not a single player rpg.

Now I got your point and I agree with it 100%.

The "Alliance" or "Horde" player that saved Suramar was neither Alliance or Horde during that narrative. Storywise, it was the neutral Leader of the Class Order x that helped did all the stuff.

[Squiggit]

The OP's premise may be correct, but I think it's sort of missing the point too.

Because the core issue isn't really what's canon or who gets the credit. It's pretty obvious the Horde are the ones who canonically did most of the heavy lifting in Suramar. The issue is just that Blizzard decided to make the Suramar campaign a fairly personal storyline and then later made big gameplay decisions that ignored their own storytelling.

The frustration is that right now the alliance player experience in Suramar is basically that you become BFFs with Thalyssra and her crew, literally hand feeding them mana to keep them from going insane at times, only for them to immediately turn around and decide you're kill-on-sight enemies once they've got their city back. You can make similar complaints about the Highmountain Tauren and the Lightforged too.

And that's just dumb. It's also a beast entirely of Blizzard's own making given their decision to have the player character be so directly and intimately involved in the storyline.

[StaeleAilar]

God you people are stupid. Allow me to explain the reason that the horde did more for Suramar. You will notice that the Night Elf and High Elf forces were entirely comprised of archers, and a few mages. If you pay attention to the dialogue, they secure the outskirts of the city, and handle scouting. It is the Blood Elves who bring the heavy armor, and fight door to door, taking the brunt of the battle. How did none of your notice that simple fact? You will also notice how polite and understanding Liadrin is when speaking to the Nightborne, compared to Tyrande's haughty attitude.

Of course liadrin is going to be more polite. She wasn't there when Thalyssra and Elisande and the rest of the nightborne turned their back on the night elves and sealed themselves away and left their kin to die. Tyrande had every right to respond the way she did, in fact, personally had i have known that they were going to join the horde ahead of time, as a writer i would have played up that betrayal and that lack of trust and hostility between the two. And actually reflected it in game with the Night elf and high elf armies only being token forces. They could have written it so much better.

It does suck that for a large chunk of the expansion, BOTH factions worked toward something to liberate a city from the legion and then all of a sudden they're just like thanks but you're not welcome here anymore and i'll kill people of your faction. Thanks for securing my future and nourishing my people peace. Throw in on top that, again, the alliance aided in the reclamation of Highmountain/Thunder Totem only to have them ALSO turn on us (that being said it was much more obvious that they would end up siding with the horde over the alliance i suppose - but still... i actually like the tauren as a race haha).