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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Challenge View Post
    Demonology has undergone heavy reworks in wotlk, cata, mop, and legion. 4 of 6 expansions. Blizzard doesnt care about the numbers on the least played spec on the least played class. That would be retarded anyways. Survival changes was heavy on the forefront, with good reason even it literally is the least played spec throughout legion.
    To me that's further proof that Blizz doesn't really know what they want from Demo, and that's fine, not an attack or a complaint just an observation, even more reason why we haven't seen huge changes to BfA stuff.

    Armory^

  2. #22
    With the update to implosion we can expect a sort of spawn a bunch of shite ( demons ) - and some how either buff them or your self.
    There has been so much hate for Demo in legion, and even though it's under-played compared to destro and affliction; it's a rather satisfying play style.
    Sure DE planted you to the ground and if not maximized that buff with a high number demon's provided difficult in relevant game play ( raiding/dungeons/PvP/ect).

    The spec felt like what demonology should be and what everyone wanted it do be. YOU CONTROL THE LEGION. Personally thought metamorphosis was heinous and just didn't make sense.

    As mentioned friends and family alpha just started so not seeing many changes should not discurouge.
    Developers are people too, and rn I'm sure they have a lot on their plate, and we will see the good stuff towards late march/early may.
    Nerdrage-15 Minute Cooldown. You enter a berserker rage, increasing typing speed by 75%, chance to hit CAPS LOCK by 50% and decreasing chance to get laid by 100%. You feel no pity or remorse and can not be stopped unless banned.

  3. #23
    I am worried too about Demon. And even more seeing that the another mencioned "failed experiment" spec, Survival, has received a lot of work. So the "there are big changes so they will be late" argument falls off with that fact.

    I want to be wrong, but thats the actual fact.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Challenge View Post
    Demonology has undergone heavy reworks in wotlk, cata, mop, and legion. 4 of 6 expansions. Blizzard doesnt care about the numbers on the least played spec on the least played class. That would be retarded anyways. Survival changes was heavy on the forefront, with good reason even it literally is the least played spec throughout legion.
    That is why I personally suspect we'll get "Yeah we decided to not put our time and resources into the least played spec of the least played class and the Demonology specification for Warlocks has been removed. Mechanically a pure summoner is not a class we feel should be in the game, it lacks interesting play options."
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

  5. #25
    If its anything like legion alpha/beta they will say they are saving the best for last. They will then destroy the class and try to patch it back up mid expansion. The class will still be boring as hell and nobody will play it anyways.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrowful Gondola View Post
    NOT ENTIRELY SUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT OK, let's analyses this statement for you since you seem to be unable to comprehend it by yourself. When a Game Director, a.k.a. the most important person in a game development, tells you publicly that a spec was NOT ENTIRELY SUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT that means it was a failed experiment. He won't use the word "massive failed experiment" because he used to be a LAWYER before joining Blizzard, so he knows his way with words. He publicly said the spec failed, but that's obviously not a good enough proof for you that the spec design failed. Oh well. I will stop replying to your comments because you are blindly enamored in the current iteration of demonology and nothing anyone says will make you think differently, so there is no point in replying.

    Oh, and also, let's not forget this gem (it's not related tho this discussion, but still it gives you a good look on the future perspective of demonology)

    EDIT: I really, really, REALLY wish to be proven wrong. And I hope I will be. But seeing how they handled this spec for the last 2 expansions, I can't really get my hopes high.
    Not entirely successful =/= failure. They'll take what they thought was good (pets) and try fix what they saw was bad (demonic empowerment). I don't have any high expectations for demonology in BFA, and i'll play it if I have to, and like i've said in other threads, i'm fine with pets, I just disagree with them being the focus of the spec, and would like options to bake damage back into the player. But I suspect if they did that the majority of players would opt out of zoo demonology just like they do when Sacrifice is a viable alternative.

    I also think people might be expecting too much from a revamp in BFA. It'll essentially be the same spec as Legion, just tidied up.



    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    I mean, you're calling someone out as basically being a blind fanboy
    Challenge is hardly blind, they know what they like and they stand up for it. I don't like current demo, they do, just because you don't like it doesn't mean people who do are blind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    Tl;dr demo was too far ahead of the other warlock specs forcing everyone in to playing it even though they didn't want to.
    This actually really annoyed me at the time, at no other point have they nerfed aff or destruction because people who like demonology felt forced to play those specs either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyoda View Post
    Man, Ion is being all sincere with players. When he said that "we would rather don't want you to play Demo", he is literally saying that. Devs nerfed Demo in order to make players forgetting a bit of Demo and making pace for Demon Hunters. They obviously intended that, they nerfed by 25% decreased damage of all spells! What does that means for you?

    When he is saying "not a successful experiment", he is confessing a mistake and agreeing with what players complained about, so that, they're working on it!

    Btw, they have enough time for and the team is working faster than we ever had.
    Honestly, WoD demo was a fucking rollercoaster, nerfed to shit in pre-patch because balance matters in pre-patch apparently. Then buffed back into relevance in Highmaul, being the top spec to play in BRF, altho destruction was useful on some fights iirc. Then back into the dumpster for what felt like an eternity in HFC.

    vv WoD demo in a Nutshell.


  7. #27
    Deleted
    How is this seriously a thread? It's ALPHA. They said they would change the spec, so they will. Relax, they're working out on the basic entry quests right now, not overhauling a spec.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrowful Gondola View Post
    Understandable, but we are talking about a spec that was SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED as a failed experiment that is getting MAJOR CHANGES. Now, if one would introduce something completely new to a game, they would want to make sure it gets thoroughly tested from the start (in this case Alpha), but that is not happening yet spec that WEREN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED are getting major changes. How do you justify that mr. "Not a Blizzard defender"?
    It would make more sense that they need much more time to work on it so they aren't even implemented yet. There wasn't one spec in legion that was as unanimously hated as demo was... not even outlaw. Nothing even comes close to how terrible demo plays and how terrible the spec's toolkit is at doing everything besides standing still and doing single target dps to something that won't die for 10 minutes.

    They know if they release some half ass talents and leave some of the spec as is temporarily just to test these new talents, people will come to forums like these and complain, because they assume that the first week of ALPHA is what is going to go live.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    I think "everyone" agrees that Affliction is too strong atm, especially given it's simplicity. On the other hand you could make the same argument for Shadow S2M in early Legion. It was incredibly strong if played well, but your average Joe would simply die too early and end up at the bottom anyway. Being strong only when played to perfection isn't necessarily a good idea since it creates balancing problems that are more or less impossible to solve.
    Thats the point. Either you make them overpowered like a well played S2M player was 10 to 50% ahead of the rest even on pure single target. Or they end up too weak for a mediocre player.

    Affliction simply is too powerful on all kinds of skill level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    What worries me is the changes that are happening. If Demo was getting no changes at all, then we could assume a revamp is on the way from what we've been told. But why are they making minor talent changes that will barely change the way the spec is played if they plan to revamp it anyway?

    Which makes me think they are not revamping it.

    Oh well, the spec sucked during the one expansion it should have been at its coolest. I don't care about it past this point anyway.
    You simply dont know. We had ptr builds with minor chances and then there was suddenly one build with huge changes for one spec. If there are some minor changes it is possible that the revamp doesnt affect those talents. Dont expect the revamp to change everything. It will probably about making mistakes less painful or the rotation more simple.

    Although i dont know what they plan, i believe they will go the feral route: make the spec less punishing for moving/mistakes and fix some talents, but keep the basic idea/rotation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    I am worried too about Demon. And even more seeing that the another mencioned "failed experiment" spec, Survival, has received a lot of work. So the "there are big changes so they will be late" argument falls off with that fact.

    I want to be wrong, but thats the actual fact.
    Well they cant do everything at once. BfA is over 7 months away. Every spec will see several iterations of talents and some might get bigger changes. Doing them in may/june wouldnt be bad if the result was good.

    And what huge changes did survival get? Ignore the tuning cause there was some redesign about weapon dmg converted to attack power. They mean nothing.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=265187/demon-commander

    Just posting this here since no one has yet. This is in uncategorised spells.

    Pretty clear evidence that demonology is being worked on, it's just not in a position to push to our version of alpha yet. This makes sense, they likely wouldn't want us to see any real changes until it's complete enough so we can see how it all works properly. Affliction and destruction are receiving smaller changes and tweaks so it's fine for us to test and give feedback on.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    "I don't want to sound like a doomsayer but I'm going to make a topic in which I sound like one anyway."

    Build after build? Its in alpha, tons of specs haven't seen much change or have missing talents or what have you. So stop acting like what's in the current build is what's going live. FFS.
    I think the point he's making is this:

    If Demonology is going to get the ground-up redesign it actually needs, you'd expect it to appear in it's new form very early on in the Alpha phases.

    If Demo is going to get a proper reworking, then you'd expect it to appear early because

    (a) the devs will be trying out their thinking about the redesign and

    (b) the more a spec is reworked, the longer it needs to be tried out in Alpha. For reasons which are obvious.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Firon View Post
    http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=265187/demon-commander

    Just posting this here since no one has yet. This is in uncategorised spells.

    Pretty clear evidence that demonology is being worked on, it's just not in a position to push to our version of alpha yet. This makes sense, they likely wouldn't want us to see any real changes until it's complete enough so we can see how it all works properly. Affliction and destruction are receiving smaller changes and tweaks so it's fine for us to test and give feedback on.
    Hmm, if I could summon something like that it would help a lot with the "summoner" fantasy they're trying to push.

  13. #33
    Drastic spec reworks and tuning usually come down the pipe later in development after the content is pretty well dialed in. The sky isn't falling.

  14. #34
    Bloodsail Admiral Moggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    I think the point he's making is this:

    If Demonology is going to get the ground-up redesign it actually needs, you'd expect it to appear in it's new form very early on in the Alpha phases.

    If Demo is going to get a proper reworking, then you'd expect it to appear early because

    (a) the devs will be trying out their thinking about the redesign and

    (b) the more a spec is reworked, the longer it needs to be tried out in Alpha. For reasons which are obvious.
    In the past, specs being reworked never took priorities over getting the basic content in place... never.

    Also, it’s only been a few builds so far. Oodles of bugs as usual atm. They already have quite a few builds in the queue and will push the specs soon enough, and then folks will be QQing and all that.

    And even when they push the changes, they’re not going to stay as is to when bfa goes live... so calm down
    Last edited by Moggie; 2018-02-12 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Reminder

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    If Demonology is going to get the ground-up redesign it actually needs, you'd expect it to appear in it's new form very early on in the Alpha phases.
    And that expectation would be absolutely wrong.

    A ground-up redesign takes longer. Having to code new abilities with new graphics rather than just tweak the numbers on existing abilities takes longer. The public builds are also not a complete reflection of what the internal builds have. While they're willing to make public for testing a spec with missing talents they only do so when the core abilities are all in place. Otherwise the spec isn't even playable and might as well be disabled, so when they're doing that ground-up redesign they'll usually either straight up disable the spec or leave the old spec in place until they're ready to pull the whole thing out and replace it, which again takes longer. This is not a situation where they're doing things one at a time and the big projects go to the front of the line. They have a lot of people in a lot of teams working on a lot of things simultaneously, so it's only reasonable that the simple easy ones get finished first and the big complex ones take longer.

    In in famous words of a very smart guide... Don't Panic.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    can u fucking stop crying ??? You get your god damn rework. Its just not ready yet to be released

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    And that expectation would be absolutely wrong.

    A ground-up redesign takes longer. Having to code new abilities with new graphics rather than just tweak the numbers on existing abilities takes longer. The public builds are also not a complete reflection of what the internal builds have. While they're willing to make public for testing a spec with missing talents they only do so when the core abilities are all in place. Otherwise the spec isn't even playable and might as well be disabled, so when they're doing that ground-up redesign they'll usually either straight up disable the spec or leave the old spec in place until they're ready to pull the whole thing out and replace it, which again takes longer. This is not a situation where they're doing things one at a time and the big projects go to the front of the line. They have a lot of people in a lot of teams working on a lot of things simultaneously, so it's only reasonable that the simple easy ones get finished first and the big complex ones take longer.

    In in famous words of a very smart guide... Don't Panic.
    I'm sure you will get quoted a LOT when demo is still the same in July. And you will say: relax, it's only beta!
    And later: relax, hotfixes will come when Mythic opens!
    etc-etc

    We've been through this at least 3 times already.

    Times change, however, but I'm not optimistic at all.

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Moggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    I'm sure you will get quoted a LOT when demo is still the same in July. And you will say: relax, it's only beta!
    And later: relax, hotfixes will come when Mythic opens!
    etc-etc

    We've been through this at least 3 times already.

    Times change, however, but I'm not optimistic at all.

    Eh, people only spout the whole "it's only beta, yada yada" deal when it's like, actually in mid to late Beta. It's early Alpha (least to the public eyes). I seriously would just relax for now. When the changes happen, THEN freak out like usual cause "it sucks, bad mechanics, clunky, dps loss, etc." But it really is far too early to be all doom and gloom about a spec being reworked.

  19. #39
    My bet: they're totally rebuilding demo into a tank build! (90% joke, but kinda would love that) also, with the major reworks, it's easier for the devs to come up with the minor changes needed for the other specs while demo is in such a shit spot it does need a total rehaul. could wind up not seeing them til prepatch

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer MrHappy's Avatar
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    I'm honestly getting really tired of seeing threads like this.

    OP are you for real? Like are you actually fucking kidding me right now?

    May I remind you that this is first few deployments of ALPHA. We just got few spell animations and things are actively being worked on. You would have some credibility if beta has been out for a while and we're into raid testing already. But the world itself is not even out in its entirety.
    We are not the only class that's getting a redegisn
    Survival hunter only recently got the 1st itterations
    WW monks were worked on recently
    They have said that Demo is getting a big redesign and that they were not happy with game play. This is not your few talent changes /flavors added or removed that aff and destro got because the core game play is in a good place. They may want to completely rework how DE, DS, Doomguard will work. Also with aff getting SB we maybe getting something else. This shit takes time if you can believe it.

    Have some dam patience, go level a HM Tauren or something christ

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