Bring back ranged survival!!!

[threads]

Can you come up with something interesting for WoD-survival going into legion? Like a new mechanic or something that would build up on SV but not ruin or even change it's core?
Just curious... because you wouldn't expect us to play the same sh*t for 2 expansions straight now, would you?

What I'm trying to say is... "bringing it back" always sounds like people are asking for the WoD version to come back.. .1:1... that would be so utterly boring, I don't even know where to start. And since they would never do that and changes to the spec going into legion are basically guaranteed, I wonder if you'd even get what you were asking for, whether SV had remained range or not.

wod SV was pretty pruned from MoP but the base of explosive shot, black arrow, LnL and serpent sting was a good fluid base to work from. some of what they're doing in BfA would fit fine in that spec. bolas, glaive toss, serpent sting interacting with explosive shot, exotic munitions. none of that is in MM and besides MM was completely flipped backwards so it's not like they would even play similarly.

it seems like they want to make BM melee but are too afraid to piss off all the casuals who only play it for spirit beast collecting so unfortunately SV is the spec that gets to suffer and have all the diff clashing themes.

[ayrton2388]

Hunter was never a melee spec. Go play a warrior or rogue genius

Guardian druid was never a spec, but people are loving it now.

So go play mage, you genius. See how easy it is?

[derpkitteh]

no, fuck off. i like melee survival.

i don't like the gameplay design they went with for it. but i like a melee hunter spec.

[ayrton2388]

It won't come back. And new SV is fun. So get over it.

No, it's not. All the streamers who played it (barely, cause they got bored quick as fuck) said it's... interesting, but clunkier than on live, and that it feels really awkward.
So no, it's not fun.

[Aggrophobic]

If you want a ranged hunter, just play MM or BM. SV was pretty much indistinguishable from the 2 other ranged specs to begin with.

No, it was not.

[Bepples]

If you want a ranged hunter, just play MM or BM. SV was pretty much indistinguishable from the 2 other ranged specs to begin with.

This is revisionist nonsense pushed by non-Hunters who think that the weapon type defines the entire spec. Of course by this logic Fury and Arms would be indistinguishable but all rationality goes out the window when you're dealing with Legion melee favouritism.

You guys fucked up melee survival that me and a shitload of other people really, truly enjoyed. The BfA survival is a bag of crap on fire.
Thanks for that. I hope blizzard fucks up BM and MM, just so you get how it feels.

You guys got ranged SV removed and an ACTUAL shitload of people played that (you're being very generous by saying a lot of people played melee SV when it is by far the least popular spec in the game). I hope Blizzard removes melee SV just so you get how it feels.

I feel like I stop playing my hunter (My main, btw) every other expansion because the less than evolved players of the class (You know the term) possess simplistic desires.

Survival superiority complex knows no bounds.

Can you come up with something interesting for WoD-survival going into legion? Like a new mechanic or something that would build up on SV but not ruin or even change it's core?
Just curious... because you wouldn't expect us to play the same sh*t for 2 expansions straight now, would you?

What I'm trying to say is... "bringing it back" always sounds like people are asking for the WoD version to come back.. .1:1... that would be so utterly boring, I don't even know where to start. And since they would never do that and changes to the spec going into legion are basically guaranteed, I wonder if you'd even get what you were asking for, whether SV had remained range or not.

I wouldn't mind MoP or WoD Survival back as they were (since they far exceed all current Hunter specs in gameplay fluidity and consistency) but personally I would actually like some more mechanics to further distinguish and enhance the spec. For example, the ability to multidot wiht Black Arrow to some capacity (CDR from Serpent Sting?) to fish for more Lock and Load procs. Or making Explosive Trap useful somehow (e.g. "Enemies debuffed by Explosive Trap will be hit by splash damage from Explosive Shot). A unique spec cooldown; something better than just a damage or haste increase such as increased Lock and Load chance + reduced GCD or something similar; something that lets me put out a whole heap of explosions and poisons in a small amount of time and just be really fun. A lot of Survival's current and upcoming talents would fit too like Caltrops, Wildfire Bombs, and Chakrams. There are a million ways to make ranged Survival even more interesting.

Because blizzard starting giving marksmen the same spells survival originally had so they became indistinguishable. Blizzard could just revert survival back to the way it was in vanilla and there would be differences again between the three. Getting the devs to admit they fucked up survival a long time ago probably won't happen. I still don't understand why bm ended up with chimera shot? It just shows the devs doing the same things again that got them into the same boat again. You can open your talents pane right now on live and see those spells they took from survival back in vanilla.

This is completely backwards. SV and MM started off almost identical in Vanilla and diverged each expansion... not the other way around. WoD was the peak level of distinction between MM and SV before Legion; they shared literally one rotational ability (Multi-Shot, which itself had different mechanics) and some other Hunter template similarities like a casted focus generator and a cooldown signature. Before WotLK SV and MM hardly had any unique abilities at all.

It won't come back. And new SV is fun. So get over it.

Clearly it's not very fun because hardly anyone is playing it and Blizzard is having to remake it from the ground-up again in just 1 expansion. Speaking of which: ranged SV is already halfway back as of BfA.

no, fuck off. i like melee survival.

i don't like the gameplay design they went with for it. but i like a melee hunter spec.

Pure selfishness.

[Zantos]

Clearly it's not very fun because hardly anyone is playing it and Blizzard is having to remake it from the ground-up again in just 1 expansion. Speaking of which: ranged SV is already halfway back as of BfA.

Few points on this. First, you cannot correlate how fun it is to how many people play it. Look at what it is, Another melee in an expansion with a new class that adds More melee. Raids typically want an equal balance of ranged and melee. I played survival at the start and it is a really fun spec. It has some nice utility for PvP and in raids. However, it suffers from one huge flaw, there are two ranged specs. Most raids would prefer you to be ranged over melee. They don't want a cluster up front on top of the boss usually, unless there is a specific fight that it would help for. From a playstyle perspective, ranged and melee play differently. It would be easier for someone to pick up MM or BM, and then it would be to go to the other and just learn a rotation then for them to go from BM or MM to a Survival hunter and learn the play style and a rotation.

Second, the rework doesn't support your theory. How many classes get entirely reworked each expansion? Look at Death Knights and Monks. They both had Massive reworks for one, or all specs after 1 expansion. Heck, Death Knights basically had an Entire class overhaul going into Cata. Tanking removed from two specs, coming back as an undead gone, dps removed from a spec and more. The do pretty big overhauls each expansion for classes. Each time I had to re-learn some of the finer points for my prot paladin because they would change my tool kit to survive. In cata going to MoP, they did a pretty hefty rework by adding holy power and changing the tool kit a lot. Reworks happen all the time.

Point is, there is nothing wrong with keeping a melee hunter spec. It helps to diversify the class as a whole. Its only major issue is it suffers from being a melee when raids need a good mix of melee and a lot of other melee do it better.

[Nythiz]

The question I'd have for you or Blizzard is how you build a compelling playstyle around a spec that has both melee and ranged abilities. Like, unholy DKs have some ranged abilities (Death Coil, Outbreak, Clawing Shadows) but they're pretty clearly a solid melee class. Aside from a few edge cases (boss flies in the air for a short time, add leaps away), they're not really going to be attacking from ranged. Is that all a "melee/range hybrid" Survival hunter would be, too, or is there any way to make it meaningful to have some ranged attacks and some melee attacks?

It could be if you're forced to swap in and out.

For example for every raptor strike you do you could get a buff that increases <insert ranged ability> damage by 10% for 20 seconds, max 10 stacks. Then at 10 stacks you would disengage out and start using the ranged ability, which in turn buffs your raptor strike by 10% per stack for 20 seconds so after you get 10 stacks you'd harpoon back in.

Im not saying it's perfect gameplay; something like this might not even work properly or turn out to be rubbish gameplay. But it would be nice if the spec had more depth than: keep up 1 DoT, use grenade and KC on cooldown, spam raptor strike... because that's a rubbish rotation. Even BM isn't that simplified.

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Not to completely undermine your argument as you have a few good points, but:

Look at what it is, Another melee in an expansion with a new class that adds More melee. Raids typically want an equal balance of ranged and melee.

Point is, there is nothing wrong with keeping a melee hunter spec. It helps to diversify the class as a whole. Its only major issue is it suffers from being a melee when raids need a good mix of melee and a lot of other melee do it better.

That's a pretty big contradiction you're just casually throwing around. Making 33.3% of your class undesirable for raiding; arguably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, design factor; is quite a good reason to go back to ranged.

[Shirofune]

It could be if you're forced to swap in and out.

For example for every raptor strike you do you could get a buff that increases <insert ranged ability> damage by 10% for 20 seconds, max 10 stacks. Then at 10 stacks you would disengage out and start using the ranged ability, which in turn buffs your raptor strike by 10% per stack for 20 seconds so after you get 10 stacks you'd harpoon back in.

Im not saying it's perfect gameplay; something like this might not even work properly or turn out to be rubbish gameplay. But it would be nice if the spec had more depth than: keep up 1 DoT, use grenade and KC on cooldown, spam raptor strike... because that's a rubbish rotation. Even BM isn't that simplified.

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Not to completely undermine your argument as you have a few good points, but:





That's a pretty big contradiction you're just casually throwing around. Making 33.3% of your class undesirable for raiding; arguably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, design factor; is quite a good reason to go back to ranged.

Coming from a Havoc Demon Hunter that played Momentum in 7.0.

You'll get burned of the massive movement and in a lot of raiding environments, it'll not work out.

Believe me, do not desire a high movement playstyle, Blizzard can't balance it.

[Deleted]

Just do it. Millions would love to see it back.

Nope.
Deal with it.

[Nythiz]

Coming from a Havoc Demon Hunter that played Momentum in 7.0.

You'll get burned of the massive movement and in a lot of raiding environments, it'll not work out.

Believe me, do not desire a high movement playstyle, Blizzard can't balance it.

Probably yes.

That's why it's my least favorite option. I'd rather have them rework it to be ranged, or enhance the melee aspect of it. For the latter it'll need something to give depth and some anchorage to the spec though. Currently it looks like the toolkit of a level 20 character.

[Aesde]

No, hunter doesn't need weak copy of MM spec.
Melee or tank spec.

[Donkeywing]

Pointless to ask, demand or hope for. All there's left to do is bitch for years. Blizzard already proved with pruning that they really don't care about pissing off half their playerbase if it means they get their way. You think SV means anything to these people? 8.0 is just a continuation of the experiment. It's unlikely SV will ever be a ranged spec again.

[derpkitteh]

Pure selfishness.

there's two other ranged specs you can play.

melee hunter is the coolest shit ever. going into battle with your pet right by your side is awesome. i've always wanted to do that with a warrior.

[Angrie]

No, hunter doesn't need weak copy of MM spec.
Melee or tank spec.

What about a healing spec? Hunters can use staves.

GW2 has a "healing" Ranger spec.

Make it similar to disc priest.

[Zantos]

Not to completely undermine your argument as you have a few good points, but:





That's a pretty big contradiction you're just casually throwing around. Making 33.3% of your class undesirable for raiding; arguably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, design factor; is quite a good reason to go back to ranged.

While I can see that, all it would take is some tweaking to make it competitive. The desire should even itself out in the upcoming expansion since it would be a full expansion since they were implemented. The problem I had was because yes, while it was melee, its dps was sub-par compared to the other two specs by a large margin at the time. If they can get it closer in line to the ranged specs and have it have utility, there shouldn't be any major factors out right preventing people from playing it. Especially now without artifact weapons complicating things.

[Cyanu]

how many millions according to your estimate? more or less than 10?

seriously now, i think that they had some fairly decent ideas in Legion, while their early BFA ideas look promising

imo the old survival was not distinct enough from the other specs to justify it's 'existence', in vanilla it was just a spec that was forced on the class simply because they HAD to implement a 3rd spec

Hunters/rangers are not strictly ranged, Hemet and the Windrunners are not all there is to the class, there are also major lore figures like Rexxar with a heavy preference on the melee

btw we already have a mobile ranged spec with emphasis on 'dots' it's called BM, it can move freely during it's entire rotation and it's pets are it's 'dots'

[Sencha]

Hunter is like demon hunter, a 2-spec class.

[Deleted]

No, it's not. All the streamers who played it (barely, cause they got bored quick as fuck) said it's... interesting, but clunkier than on live, and that it feels really awkward.
So no, it's not fun.

Ok you got me wrong here...I was talking about the SV we got on live.

[TOM_RUS]

i think that they had some fairly decent ideas in Legion

Theirs ideas were pure bullshit and that haven't changed. No one wants garbage melee spec.
They have been told so so many times but refuse to listen.

Would love to see ranged survival come back in a form it was during early MoP.