The lies and misrepresenttions of Titanforging

[Soon-TM]

The fact (until now, at least) that in B4A the TF chance is being reduced, that Azerite slots cannot TF and that weapons are capped to +10 indicates that devs do consider it an issue, and are curbing its prevalence.

[Noah37]

Having a loot system that is entirely RNG is not a healthy system. It really only helps Blizzard to keep you running the same content on repeat, in the hopes that this time you finally get that slightly better piece. In my opinion I'm fine with Titanforging, however, I wish there was something similar to the MoP Valor system also, where if you didn't roll high on a piece of gear, you can upgrade it using some kind of points. That way you can eventually eliminate RNG by simply investing more time into the game.

[Halyon]

In isolation, I really don't mind titanforging, I'm fairly neutral. It can be good, it can be infuriating, but c'est la vie. What makes me dislike it is when it makes the tier set 2-3 raids ago BiS ...but only with insanely high TF'ing. Sure, it's my problem with min/maxing on certain things, and tiers are going away in BfA...so my outlook on TF'ing is neutral.

[Eazy]

If the game were a moral engine whose purpose was to reward the deserving, you'd have a point.

Wasn't it like always?
Mythic raiders always had highest ilvl pieces of gear. I think that guy had right.

[Stunlock]

I don't care if other people got a titan-forget item. There are two issues I see with Titanforging:

1.) Getting a +50 Titanforge on an altchar feels like getting punished for playing one
2.) Soft-Nerfing a raid by getting better items takes much longer because you need to replace titanforges with new titanforges, not with the normal loot

[HuxNeva]

I enjoy the TF system a lot, but I agree it's made raid progression underwhelming. We clear heroic regularly, and I think I've seen 1 upgrade for myself there. Anything that dropped would have to TF quite a bit - I got all of my gear TF'd in Normal/Mythic+.

I also really despise the issue it caused with tier and trinkets. Even now, people are wearing TF t20 that you just wont compete with if you didn't get lucky to get that because t20 bonus were a lot stronger for some classes. Some advice is "not to unequip unless a 100 ilvl difference", which is nuts. This is in part blizzards fault, I think...t21 is just bad for too many. And then you have Convergence of Fates, Arcano crystal.

But those are really the only issues I have. Someone got lucky in LFR? I'm happy for them. It doesn't affect me. What I don't like is being encouraged to run old raids no one really wants to do anymore, or grind rares on argus until my eyes bleed (I stopped, though). I think the system should stay, but things that drop in raids just need to be better and tier needs to be deactivated/weakened or something. But, I think they said it's being addressed in BFA. Better trinketes/no tier/stuff for your necklace you can only get there, etc.

Trinket unbalance was a trinket problem, not directly a TF problem. An Arcano base 860 still beat many 900 trinkets for many specs.
Tier bonuses should have been made mutually exclusive, and those of more than 1 tier back just deactivated, I agree completely.
I don't like the currency grinds, but they wouldn't exist without the unbalance trinkets. Nobody cares whether the Dauntless or Relinquished Arcano TF'ed. It was its value at base (880 and 910 I believe) that caused the grind, so that is not a TF issue at all.

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Wasn't it like always?
Mythic raiders always had highest ilvl pieces of gear. I think that guy had right.

They still do, unless they stop playing. To get an item to 'forge' a tier(+15) requires between 8 and 12 times as many kills. So the M guy has as much chance week one as the HC guy has over the coming 1 to 2 months, and in that time the M guy has moved on far beyond.

[Deleted]

And yet out of all your 9 characters with that TF spam you don't have single one matching my ilvl and the best you could do is 5/11 mythic?

Guess you just wasted shitton of time for less than I got with my 2 raid nights a week and M+ or two.

That's why I say it's non-factor, you are yet another silly Billy who thinks TF are all, but you don't have anything to show for it.

Why are you using my 7th alt's progress lul

[Eazy]

They still do, unless they stop playing. To get an item to 'forge' a tier(+15) requires between 8 and 12 times as many kills. So the M guy has as much chance week one as the HC guy has over the coming 1 to 2 months, and in that time the M guy has moved on far beyond.

That's the problem HC guy shouldn't even have a chance of getting it.

Why are you using my 7th alt's progress lul

He's probably mad about his epeen and lack of arguments.

[Nadiru]

The only real problem with Titanforging is that it makes trinkets too relevant beyond their tier, which has caused some pretty gnarly balance problems for them relative to other expansions. The only other time I can remember trinkets being so relevant all expansion was MoP, which caused such problems they redesigned an entire DPS subsystem (dot snapshotting) and then also moved damage out of trinkets as well.

[Carnedge]

Perfectly statted 985 Chest... that breaks a very powerful 4set.

No longer a thing in BfA.

[Fappy]

I just miss "completing" a character for a particular tier. I liked having definitive BiS pieces to shoot for.

[HuxNeva]

That's the problem HC guy shouldn't even have a chance of getting it.
.

But why? What is the problem with rewarding people for playing? Do you want them to effectively promote unsubbing?

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I just miss "completing" a character for a particular tier. I liked having definitive BiS pieces to shoot for.

Use the +15 (or whatever you think is appropriate farm level) rule of thumb, and you have your 'BiS'.

[Jujudrood]

TF isn't the problem at all.
It's the sheer amount of ways to obtain gear that's the problem.
It could be a 1% chance to TF, but when you have millions of people getting dozens of chances at what could be quality loot each day/week, that small chance becomes a bit more commonplace.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want the old days of 2 items per 40 raiders with no token (meaning class-specific item, even if that class isn't present), but when you can farm M+ forever while doing potentially 4 levels of difficulty for a raid while also the option to go back and do the previous tier that has a chance to reward items of use for current tier because they are better while ALSO farming your balls off for argunite in hopes of a TF proc on an arcanocrystal, there's just so many avenues that someone getting a 940+ from a source whose rewards are typically in the 910 range is bound to happen.

TF is fine in concept, but fails when you have an avalanche of purps.

[Eazy]

But why? What is the problem with rewarding people for playing? Do you want them to effectively promote unsubbing?

No, I just don't want people who are doing LFR getting HC ilvl gear. That's unfair.

[demonyaa]

If you believe the forums you'd think that the average LFR or even WQ exclusive player is running around in full Anthorus Mythic if not close to 980+ ilvl. The 'culprit' of this epic max expansion loot fiesta is the 'hideous' undeserved Titanforging system.

Problem is: it is simply not true.

I've been playing on my main since near start expansion. On that character I have killed over 1.000 Raid bosses on N or higher, done over 2.500 WQ's, most related to Emissaries, ran 700 M+ instances on record.

The highest TF I have ever seen in all that looting is a +35 (once, on a useless trinket form a M+). Looking at guildies and the pugs I ran with, I'm most certainly not an outlier on the RNG spectrum.

Does that mean there has never been a +50 or even higher TF in the history of Legion? Of course not. There are 4 million players, and due to the network effect I'm sure everyone has heard from a friend who's friend told him that a friend of theirs was in an LFR where some guy was dropped 970 boots with a socket.

But that is not a 'common' occurrence. It has odds like winning the lottery. The chances are abysmally low, and basing your gearing 'strategy' on running content in the hopes of things forging beyond a +15 can be considered a pure waste of time. Even hard min/max'ers should learn this simple rule.

That girl in your guild that was running high M+ keys 24x7 will probably not have much if any of an equipped ilvl gain over the others that just did the weekly HC Anthorus clear and the single +15.

TF is a great system in that it gives the promise of getting a potential progression reward, albeit with diminishing probabilities. It is the foundation on which 'lasting' content is built. Without it, WQ's would be done after leveling, dungeons would be 'done' soon after hitting level cap, and raids would be done after checkboxiing 95% of your 'BiS' list. You'ld spend the rest of your days waiting for the next raid tier to drop, complaining in trade and on the forums about how the xpac is devoid of content.

TF keeps it fresh, and I hope it stays as is in BfA.

I don't think I ever agreed so much with another post on this forum.

You really get it.

[HuxNeva]

No, I just don't want people who are doing LFR getting HC ilvl gear. That's unfair.

Unfair on who? Why do you need this strict stratification?

[Eapoe]

Trinket unbalance was a trinket problem, not directly a TF problem. An Arcano base 860 still beat many 900 trinkets for many specs.
Tier bonuses should have been made mutually exclusive, and those of more than 1 tier back just deactivated, I agree completely.
I don't like the currency grinds, but they wouldn't exist without the unbalance trinkets. Nobody cares whether the Dauntless or Relinquished Arcano TF'ed. It was its value at base (880 and 910 I believe) that caused the grind, so that is not a TF issue at all.

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They still do, unless they stop playing. To get an item to 'forge' a tier(+15) requires between 8 and 12 times as many kills. So the M guy has as much chance week one as the HC guy has over the coming 1 to 2 months, and in that time the M guy has moved on far beyond.

You're only partially correct. While an 860 Arcano beats 900 trinkets, a TF 910 Arcano can become BiS over all base level trinkets in ABT. That's a TF problem. Without TF, those base ilvl Arcanos would get replaced with heroic/mythic trinkets. My base relinquished Arcano at 910 is now BiS for my MM Hunter, with no replacement in sight.
There have been times in previous xpacs where a previous raid tier trinket remains BiS thru the next, but this is the first xpac where they have remained BiS thru all tiers simply because of TF.
You're 2nd point is still only partially correct. I went casual as my guild started doing H NH. I did m+ in my free time and pugged normal runs for the hell of it. Just doing those and my emissary dailys, I stayed right on par with most of the guild members who did mythic raids. There were some big disparities, naturally, as other guild members also got TF, but on average I was within 2-3 ilvl under/over most of the raiders in the guild. The main difference being I had endless opportunities to TF and acquire gear simply they doing m+, where most of them were using their time dedicated to raiding with loot being divided between 20-30 people, and that "rare" TF going to different people.

[clevin]

As opposed to the comprehensive list of evidence you provided, right?

You would have me believe there are lots of people who are so driven they will feel compelled to do all that they can to advance, but will also be happy just stopping at heroic. This seems so inherently self-contradictory to me that unless you can show me some stats supporting that I'm not going to believe you.

Welcome to the ignore list. You've always been an annoying poster but this crap of using your experience as if it's true but passive aggressively whining about evidence when others point things out is just too much. it's especially rich when you quote something that doesn't assert anything other than that you aren't the center of the fucking universe. Bye.

[Deleted]

My problem with titanforging is Blizzard's inability to balance a new raid tier with it in mind. I'm in a heroic raiding guild, not mythic, yet for each and every raid that has been released our guild has had the same gear if not better than what drops from the raid on release day, meaning aside from perhaps special trinkets and tier set bonuses, there's no real upgrades to be had in there (unless they titanforge) and we clear the raid way faster than what we're supposed to. Done with progress in less than a month and with nothing else to do other than mythic plus (mythic raids really isn't my cup of tea), raiding has felt incredibly dull and boring this expansion, with no real sense of progression at all.

Unless Blizzard can fix this in BfA I think I'm done with raiding for good, I'm tired of feeling like I have to enter mythic to get any sense of challenge when I'm not a mythic raider.

Exactly that. The only way i found to combat this is to NOT farm a raid once i've completed it. If you farm heroic until next raid opens up and do higher M+ you'll find yourself not needing many, if any items at all from the next raid.

[Soon-TM]

TF (and RNG in general) are for a game what salt is for cooking: a bit here and there can really spice up your dish, but too much of it will ruin it. And Legion has waaaay too much salt.