Tinker Class Concept 2018 (long)

[Darktbs]

Yeah, nowhere in that does it say that Starshards was replaced by Starfall.

Well...by that logic, there is no indication that Warlocks lost Meta because of Dh.

Because Blizzard official justifaction wasn't that they were removing it to give to Dh, but rather that Demo warlocks
"Over the years we strayed too far from this design, to the extent that Demonology gameplay was defined more by the Warlock becoming a demon. Legion provides a fitting opportunity for us to realign the spec around its core function of mastering control of demons, not transforming into them."

Yeah, they built them on Argus, not on Azeroth, and they're not seen piloting those mechs on Azeroth. Again, if you start seeing lore figures piloting the Lightforged Warframe above Stormwind or Orgrimmar, then you'd have an argument.
On Draenor.

It's not "other races", its the hero/champion, and a highly trained Orc on an alternate world. Again, if you start seeing Lightforged Draenei piloting Lightforged Warframes on Azeroth, then we'll have something to talk about.

May i ask why this matters?

Why matters that is on Argus or Draenor?You have NOn-Goblin/gnomes piloting robots, that are better then whatever Gnomes/goblins could build.

.

[Ielenia]

On Draenor.

Irrelevant. Especially when you consider our MU orcs came from Draenor, or rather, Outland. Same world.

It's not "other races", its the hero/champion,

Are you going to claim our character's race is not canon, either?

and a highly trained Orc

"Highly trained"? Where can we find such info?

on an alternate world.

Irrelevant. Said "alternate world" has more similarities than differences to MU Draenor pre-Outland. Also, there's strong evidence we're getting Allied Races from AU Draenor.

[Teriz]

No, they only adress you by "Champion, Hero"

They only adress you by your class when is something class related.

During this quest in Cataclysm:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26960/my-son-the-prince

Anduin addresses you as your class, and goes into great detail about your class' history. That quest has zero to do with your class.

They also only adress you by your profession when is something related to the profession.

And what if you don't have a profession?

- - - Updated - - -

Well...by that logic, there is no indication that Warlocks lost Meta because of Dh.

Because Blizzard official justifaction wasn't that they were removing it to give to Dh, but rather that Demo warlocks
"Over the years we strayed too far from this design, to the extent that Demonology gameplay was defined more by the Warlock becoming a demon. Legion provides a fitting opportunity for us to realign the spec around its core function of mastering control of demons, not transforming into them."

That would be the indication. Thanks for posting it. Please do the same for Startshards.

May i ask why this matters?

Why matters that is on Argus or Draenor?You have NOn-Goblin/gnomes piloting robots, that are better then whatever Gnomes/goblins could build.

Because it's an isolated occasion. Not something shown over and over again over multiple expansions.

[Darktbs]

During this quest in Cataclysm:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26960/my-son-the-prince

Anduin addresses you as your class, and goes into great detail about your class' history. That quest has zero to do with your class.

It is class related because they are talking about your class story.

And what if you don't have a profession?

You can't do the quest that adress your profession.

Hell, on my Dk i did many quests that adressed me as an Blacksmith/Miner by HM Tauren/Dhs and more.

[Teriz]

Irrelevant. Especially when you consider our MU orcs came from Draenor, or rather, Outland. Same world.

Same world, different history. On that Draenor, the Orcs embraced technology over the Legion.


Are you going to claim our character's race is not canon, either?

"Highly trained"? Where can we find such info?

She's called "Siegemaster".

Irrelevant. Said "alternate world" has more similarities than differences to MU Draenor pre-Outland. Also, there's strong evidence we're getting Allied Races from AU Draenor.

Which is fine, but those AU Orcs won't be piloting Iron Reavers.

- - - Updated - - -

It is class related because they are talking about your class story.

No, its not class related. That quest is about you showing Anduin around Stormwind and its people.

You can't do the quest that adress your profession.

And if I came back with a different profession, I'm sure it would address me (the exact same character) entirely differently.

Indicating that its not lore-based.

[Darktbs]

That would be the indication. Thanks for posting it. Please do the same for Startshards.

So you agree on the notion that there is no prove that Demo lost Meta for Dh?

Because it's an isolated occasion. Not something shown over and over again over multiple expansions.

In MoP the first thing you do on the Alliance is pillot Flying machines.
In WoD you have Dwarfs,Dark iron Dwarfs and Draenei in Gorgrond and you can pilot a Shreeder,no Gnomes in sight.
In WoD you have the Warlord piloting a Fel reaver.
In Legion you have the Draenei building the Vindicar
In Legion We have the Lightforge Draenei building and piloting Mechs.

last 3 expansion...

- - - Updated - - -

She's called "Siegemaster".

And?This title is given to anyone that is leader of an Siege.

And even then, this just proves that a non goblin/gnome can be trained to pilot mechs.

No, its not class related. That quest is about you showing Anduin around Stormwind and its people.

Mentions your class>Mentions your backstory as a class> Class related.

And if I came back with a different profession, I'm sure it would address me (the exact same character) entirely differently.

Indicating that its not lore-based.

If you do not play the Dk campaign does it mean the Four Horsemen aren't canon?Since you don't see them as any of the 11 classes?Or the Brood mother isn't canon because you don't see it.

In order to see specific content you need to do it.

Why would it be different with professions?

[Ielenia]

Same world, different history. On that Draenor, the Orcs embraced technology over the Legion.

They're still the exact same orcs. Which means, if trained, they can be just as skilled.

She's called "Siegemaster".

It could simply mean that she is the leader.

Which is fine, but those AU Orcs won't be piloting Iron Reavers.

Why? "Because I, Teriz, say so!"? For someone who keeps demanding to see official documentation about starshards/starfall, you sure love to make assertions without evidence to back them up, don't you?

[Teriz]

So you agree on the notion that there is no prove that Demo lost Meta for Dh?

Lore-wise no, Gameplay-wise yes.

In MoP the first thing you do on the Alliance is pillot Flying machines.
In WoD you have Dwarfs,Dark iron Dwarfs and Draenei in Gorgrond and you can pilot a Shreeder,no Gnomes in sight.
In WoD you have the Warlord piloting a Fel reaver.
In Legion you have the Draenei building the Vindicar
In Legion We have the Lightforge Draenei building and piloting Mechs.

last 3 expansion...

And no mech piloting on Azeroth.

And?This title is given to anyone that is leader of an Siege.

And even then, this just proves that a non goblin/gnome can be trained to pilot mechs.

Yes, an Iron Horde Orc who works with technology in HFC who has the title "Siegemaster".

Mentions your class>Mentions your backstory as a class> Class related.

Yeah, when he first meets you. There's other parts of the quest as well. There's also countless quests throughout the game where your class is mentioned.

If you do not play the Dk campaign does it mean the Four Horsemen aren't canon?Since you don't see them as any of the 11 classes?Or the Brood mother isn't canon because you don't see it.

In order to see specific content you need to do it.

Why would it be different with professions?

It's canon because DKs have to experience it, and DKs are canon.

- - - Updated - - -

They're still the exact same orcs. Which means, if trained, they can be just as skilled.

If they become trained. Let me know when that happens and they start building mechs.

It could simply mean that she is the leader.

So you think a leader requires no training?

Why? "Because I, Teriz, say so!"? For someone who keeps demanding to see official documentation about starshards/starfall, you sure love to make assertions without evidence to back them up, don't you?

Because there was only one Iron Reaver built, and it was destroyed by the adventurers. It's highly doubtful that AU Orcs are going to resurrect Iron Horde/Legion tech given how WoD ended.

[Flarelaine]

I've always loved the idea of piloting a mech.

That's why I play Mechwarrior Online.

[Darktbs]

Lore-wise no, Gameplay-wise yes.

So you refuse to believe Starshard was removed and in consequence Starfalll entered the game, despite having no evidence pointing to be false or true.

But deny that Meta wasn't removed for Dhs despite blizzard saying that Meta was removed because it didn't fit a warlock.

And no mech piloting on Azeroth.

Yes, an Iron Horde Orc who works with technology in HFC who has the title "Siegemaster".

Again, why does it matter?You have example of non-goblin/gnomes doing techonology a lot better then them, yet you denounce them for...no reason.

Yeah, when he first meets you. There's other parts of the quest as well. There's also countless quests throughout the game where your class is mentioned.

And you have other quests which you can only do if you are from X profession.

It's canon because DKs have to experience it, and DKs are canon.

It's canon because -Profession- have to experience it, and -profession- is cannon.

[Lochton]

So do mages have Dalaran, shamans have the Earthen Ring, death knights have the Ebon Blade, paladins have the Silver Hand/Argent Crusade, etc... and those institutions do basically nothing for our characters in the game.

Hmm, almost, you need to see it like a wider, not really class specific but race specific. In the difference of your mentioned ones, these unions ARE actually the ones apparently the thank that you have some of your engineering methods. Trying to figure it out how to explain it. Maybe along the lines of the Lorewalkers but instead of history, it is science.

I wasn't stating more than these unions have been mentioned to exist and have been mentioned to operate multiple factories that are used for equipment by their connected race, as well as the Horde and Alliance.

[Kromkar]

GIVE ME A TINKER ALREADY, how long do we have to wait for them to become a bloody class? I've always wanted to see them in game, I hope the expansion after BfA has some Tinkers (If we all live that long that is)...

[WhiteEagle888]

The Tinker Class

What about the tinker being the first PROFESSION LOCKED class in the game.
Primary profession: Engineering
Secondary profession: Alchemy.

Wearing mail - but with a twist, he re-crafts other items from existing mail armor received from quests and dungeons
that resembles synthetic fabric akin to kevlar.

Engineering prof also covers Siegecrafter spec - piloting mechs
Alchemy covers Medic spec - creating potions and flasks and the like

And the remaining dps spec is a mix of the two with creating little robots to assist you like hunter pets.

Also a skill would be nice where you could craft double pistols from various guns and other weapons already found in-game.

Races:
Human, Dwarf, Gnome (A)
Orc, Undead, Goblin (H)

[Ielenia]

If they become trained. Let me know when that happens and they start building mechs.

The point is: they can. So nothing stops them.

So you think a leader requires no training?

Trained? Yes. "Highly trained"? Not really. I mean, the way you wrote it make it sound like she was a prodigy or something.

Because there was only one Iron Reaver built, and it was destroyed by the adventurers.

Not one of that size and caliber. But a smaller version, maybe?

It's highly doubtful that AU Orcs are going to resurrect Iron Horde/Legion tech given how WoD ended.

Why not? It's not like it was the technology that made them evil.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, almost, you need to see it like a wider, not really class specific but race specific. In the difference of your mentioned ones, these unions ARE actually the ones apparently the thank that you have some of your engineering methods. Trying to figure it out how to explain it. Maybe along the lines of the Lorewalkers but instead of history, it is science.

Yeah, but take it the way Teriz is presenting the idea: do you really think those Unions would spend more and more gold and resources to build mech after mech, just to have them self-destructed, over and over, by many of their 'tinkers'? Especially goblins, that value gold above all else?

[Lochton]

Yeah, but take it the way Teriz is presenting the idea: do you really think those Unions would spend more and more gold and resources to build mech after mech, just to have them self-destructed, over and over, by many of their 'tinkers'? Especially goblins, that value gold above all else?

To be honest, we've experienced retrieval NPC's before. I could see a self-destruct function being a long cooldown thing (5 min CD to destroy) with a long cooldown after having done it to resummon a new (X min CD to resummon after self-destruction). By their nature of science, as a Goblin and most likely Gnome too, you would be fined by wasting resources.

[Ielenia]

To be honest, we've experienced retrieval NPC's before. I could see a self-destruct function being a long cooldown thing (5 min CD to destroy) with a long cooldown after having done it to resummon a new (X min CD to resummon after self-destruction). By their nature of science, as a Goblin and most likely Gnome too, you would be fined by wasting resources.

I just find it hard to think goblins, such greed-driven creatures, would be fine with having to spend heaps and heaps of gold to build and rebuild something that not only is quite expensive to make but is also intentionally made to be blown up. Why not just create simple bombs that are simpler, easier, and much cheaper to build?

[Teriz]

So you refuse to believe Starshard was removed and in consequence Starfalll entered the game, despite having no evidence pointing to be false or true.

But deny that Meta wasn't removed for Dhs despite blizzard saying that Meta was removed because it didn't fit a warlock.

I refuse to believe that Starshard was Starfall, since they were completely different spells.

We all know that Metamorphosis was removed for Warlocks to give to DHs.

Again, why does it matter?You have example of non-goblin/gnomes doing techonology a lot better then them, yet you denounce them for...no reason.

I've explained why it matters multiple times.

And you have other quests which you can only do if you are from X profession.

It's canon because -Profession- have to experience it, and -profession- is cannon.

Yeah, just like there's quests you have to do if you take up Battle PEts.

Doesn't make it canon. As I said, our characters are barely canon themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

The point is: they can. So nothing stops them.

Except the fact that the MU Horde doesn't view technology the same way the Iron Horde did, so its doubtful that the MU Horde would embrace tech the way the Iron Horde did.

Trained? Yes. "Highly trained"? Not really. I mean, the way you wrote it make it sound like she was a prodigy or something.

Considering that she's the only Orc in lore who has piloted a mech in the history of WoW, I would definitely consider her a prodigy.

Not one of that size and caliber. But a smaller version, maybe?

Let me know when that happens.

Why not? It's not like it was the technology that made them evil.

No, but its powered by fel energy which did make them evil.

[Ielenia]

I refuse to believe that Starshard was Starfall, since they were completely different spells.

"Completely different spells". The only difference between the two spells is the second half of the spells' names. Everything else is the same.

We all know that Metamorphosis was removed for Warlocks to give to DHs.

No, we know people like to assert that, despite what Blizzard told us about the reason. If they want to claim Blizzard is lying, they need better evidence than "I don't believe them."

Except the fact that the MU Horde doesn't view technology the same way the Iron Horde did

Neither did the AU Horde until Garrosh showed them the weapons of conquest. The Iron Horde fully embraced it because it gave them a clear edge over their opponents. The MU orcs are just as perfectly capable to handle technology as did the AU Horde.

Considering that she's the only Orc in lore who has piloted a mech in the history of WoW, I would definitely consider her a prodigy.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Argument from ignorance. It could very well be that to make mechs of that size required too many resources and time to make it viable for mass-producing.

Let me know when that happens.

I already happened: the felsteel annihilator.

No, but its powered by fel energy which did make them evil.

Um... The Iron Horde was plenty evil already, before Gul'Dan took over. Did you not see the devastation the Iron Horde wrought on Karabor, the surrounding area around Shattrath, and many, many, many Draenei settlements? That's before they even took a single drop of felblood into their bodies.

[Teriz]

"Completely different spells". The only difference between the two spells is the second half of the spells' names. Everything else is the same.

One is single target, the other is AoE.

Neither did the AU Horde until Garrosh showed them the weapons of conquest. The Iron Horde fully embraced it because it gave them a clear edge over their opponents. The MU orcs are just as perfectly capable to handle technology as did the AU Horde.

Let me know when that happens.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Argument from ignorance. It could very well be that to make mechs of that size required too many resources and time to make it viable for mass-producing.

Again, let me know when that happens. As it stands, it hasn't happened.

I already happened: the felsteel annihilator.

Please link me a single lore figure, or even NPC shown piloting a Fel Annihilator.

Um... The Iron Horde was plenty evil already, before Gul'Dan took over. Did you not see the devastation the Iron Horde wrought on Karabor, the surrounding area around Shattrath, and many, many, many Draenei settlements? That's before they even took a single drop of felblood into their bodies.

Okay, but the point is that after the events of WoD it's highly doubtful that the,AU Orcs are going to re-embrace the Gel technology that led them to build the Iron Reaves, much less mass produce it.

[Darktbs]

I refuse to believe that Starshard was Starfall, since they were completely different spells.

We all know that Metamorphosis was removed for Warlocks to give to DHs.

Starfall and Starshard were the same thing.

It is obvious that Starshard became starfall, many of the racial spells now exist as other spells.

You can refuse, but your headcanon doesn't matter in this conversation.

I've explained why it matters multiple times.

You didn't, you tried to force a logic that doesn't make sense without a "Why it matters?"

Whatever your headcanon believes, piloting and creating Mechs isn't something exclusive to those small races.
And for the sake of your class, it would be better to not limit the class to Gnomes or Goblins.

The class would have a worse introduction then Monks had.

Yeah, just like there's quests you have to do if you take up Battle PEts.

Doesn't make it canon. As I said, our characters are barely canon themselves.

if our characters are barely canon then why bring the notion that Professions are non-canon.

And the quest are canon, wanna know a example?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=255655/pride-of-ironhorn

This is the passive from the Highmountain tauren.
But there wasn't any indication that HM were good miners.

Except the Mining Quest from Legion.http://www.wowhead.com/quest=38787/t...rethu-ironhorn

You can choose not to do them, but the quests and the story they provide are canon.

Like it or not.

- - - Updated - - -

One is single target, the other is AoE.

That didn't stop you from saying Frost nova Wc3 and Frost nova from mages are the same.

One is a AoE stun and the other is single target with splash damage.

How can you be so dishonest?