Out of control! Antorus normal be 945 and ahead of the curve Antorus or no invite

[munkeyinorbit]

We had a guild alt run with an average ilvl of 920. Needed some healers and thought we might as well grab some good dps. For the healers I choose 920+. Who cares, it was only normal. For the DPS I needed at least 960+. We were not about to carry any fucking losers through normal. In the end we killed it all no troubles but the 960s were disappointing. The three that we pugged weren't even in the top 5. For tanks or heals, I would say even as low as 910 is OK for normal, but DPS better be 960+. For heroic just had +15. Yes +15 for DPS too those fucking bads.

[Deleted]

We had a guild alt run with an average ilvl of 920. Needed some healers and thought we might as well grab some good dps. For the healers I choose 920+. Who cares, it was only normal. For the DPS I needed at least 960+. We were not about to carry any fucking losers through normal. In the end we killed it all no troubles but the 960s were disappointing. The three that we pugged weren't even in the top 5. For tanks or heals, I would say even as low as 910 is OK for normal, but DPS better be 960+. For heroic just had +15. Yes +15 for DPS too those fucking bads.

So in your esteem, anyone below 960 is a "fucking loser"?

The reality is that ilevel is the simplest (not really the best) ruler to filter experienced people from inexperienced ones. It also the simplest indication that damage/healing/tanking quality of that particular player should be commensurate to that particular gear level. That's why people use it.

However, expecting anything else from it is nonsense. Moreover, asking for 960 normal when it drops 930 is a bit of a stretch.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Not all groups are like this.
Start your own group.
Pay for a run.

/thread

[munkeyinorbit]

So in your esteem, anyone below 960 is a "fucking loser"?

The reality is that ilevel is the simplest (not really the best) ruler to filter experienced people from inexperienced ones. It also the simplest indication that damage/healing/tanking quality of that particular player should be commensurate to that particular gear level. That's why people use it.

However, expecting anything else from it is nonsense. Moreover, asking for 960 normal when it drops 930 is a bit of a stretch.

Its not a stretch for those trinkets. DPS are DESPERATE to get in. ilvl is the best way to find out if anyone is good. You look at the number, if it is high then the player is good. Unless they turn out to be a loser who can't play their class. There is no other way to get a qualitative indication of the skill of a player.

- - - Updated - - -

So in your esteem, anyone below 960 is a "fucking loser"?

The reality is that ilevel is the simplest (not really the best) ruler to filter experienced people from inexperienced ones. It also the simplest indication that damage/healing/tanking quality of that particular player should be commensurate to that particular gear level. That's why people use it.

However, expecting anything else from it is nonsense. Moreover, asking for 960 normal when it drops 930 is a bit of a stretch.

Its not a stretch for those trinkets. DPS are DESPERATE to get in. ilvl is the best way to find out if anyone is good. You look at the number, if it is high then the player is good. Unless they turn out to be a loser who can't play their class. There is no other way to get a qualitative indication of the skill of a player.

[Spotnick]

I can honestly say 915 ilvl players will have a rough time surviving in some fights in Argus because they just don't have the health pool to survive mistakes done by other people in the pug.

The ilvl asked is mostly to cover up mistakes and carry dead people.

[Deleted]

Not all groups are like this.
Start your own group.
Pay for a run.

/thread

really? pay for a run? world of paycraft... omg. its really getting out of hand

[Kylista6]

As an individual that pugs heroic and normal on 3 characters each week, I can attest that there are plenty of groups that do not have high iLvl requirements. The downside however is that they are always in high demand, so you may need to wait a bit before you see one with availability. And statistically, those groups with lower ilvl requirements will not get as far as one that has more rigorous screening processes, such as making sure you're parsing at least blue on all the heroic fights, or a group that makes sure all your gear is enchanted and gemmed.

I see plenty of normals with an ilvl requirement of 930, which is easy to achieve with lfr gear and legendaries and some m+ gear. I also see plenty of heroic runs with 945 requirements that only require that you've cleared normal.

I mean, you get what you sign up for, right? People signing up with a group that has a higher ilvl requirement to match their own expect a higher competency level than a group that is ok with inviting 930s. You may not like it, but with a little patience you'll see a group pop up that fits your expectations, and you may get in.


If I'm not in a hurry, I'll queue for one with no ilvl requirement on my 970 tank or healer because I dont mind helping carry a group that would have otherwise struggled.
If I AM in a hurry, Ill look for a group with requirements similar to my ilvl in the hopes that they are close to my skill level so it is completed quicker.

If I create my own group for heroic, my expectations are that people are at least 945 (doable with normal gear and legendaries), parse green or better, and are fully gemmed/enchanted. With those requirements, rarely do you wipe prior to Coven, and if you wipe at Coven, you politely explain that you'll need to replace people, and you up the requirement to maybe blue parses and a 950 ilvl, with prior kills on coven.

[Marrilaife]

really? pay for a run? world of paycraft... omg. its really getting out of hand

That's what you get if you want a smooth run in a low gear. Or... you can join a low ilvl group that will struggle and not clear, but at least kill some bosses. Or... you can start your own group and see how it goes. Or... you can join a casual raiding guild. Options are there. Buying is just the ultimate solution for the lazy.

[Deleted]

That's what you get if you want a smooth run in a low gear. Or... you can join a low ilvl group that will struggle and not clear, but at least kill some bosses. Or... you can start your own group and see how it goes. Or... you can join a casual raiding guild. Options are there. Buying is just the ultimate solution for the lazy.

Buying a boost is a very good option. I got my curve for 200k gold and managed to get 11/HC afterwards on a char that was 4/11 HC before (I don't have a guild and doing 3 bosses before disbanding in the curve-less pugs bored me really quickly). It is the laziest option, but the most efficient one since you know the run will be smooth and loot guaranteed. Still faster and relaxing than hoping to get a group that won't suck.

[Deleted]

really? pay for a run? world of paycraft... omg. its really getting out of hand

This has been the case since at least BC.

I've been buying Mythic boosts myself since ICC and I've done so recently as well for Antorus, which really helps to bump my item level so I can join groups easier later on.

[Marrilaife]

Buying a boost is a very good option. I got my curve for 200k gold and managed to get 11/HC afterwards on a char that was 4/11 HC before (I don't have a guild and doing 3 bosses before disbanding in the curve-less pugs bored me really quickly). It is the laziest option, but the most efficient one since you know the run will be smooth and loot guaranteed. Still faster and relaxing than hoping to get a group that won't suck.

As long as you check up the boosters if they're trustworthy, because if you happen to get scammed Blizzard has no refund policy for stuff like boosts, cross realm trading and so forth.

[Chaosweaver]

These kinds of threads are always made by people who have never tried to form a group, raid lead and keep looking for replacements since 50% of your group leaves after a wipe. Make a group of 910's and clear it yourself.

Making a pug is not a charity, you invest your time into it and if you don't value your time then you should take a very good look at yourself and how your life is going in general.

Nobody is obligated to educate and carry undergeared people in his spare time, like I said if you feel like it then go ahead and do it yourself instead of bitching on the forums.

[Swampmoose]

The reality is that ilevel is the simplest (not really the best) ruler to filter experienced people from inexperienced ones. It also the simplest indication that damage/healing/tanking quality of that particular player should be commensurate to that particular gear level. That's why people use it.

Not even close. Ilvl means so little these days, it has become a complete joke, which is the reason for this thread. There are so many ways to inflate your ilvl beyond your experience level. Better than average luck with titanforging/random upgrades, paying gold for runs, running 5 man mythics, etc. You can outgear normal and heroic Antorus by running mythics every week while having no experience at all in Antorus beyond LFR. People can also slowly grind their way through heroic with horrific performance by outgearing it a little more each week. Obviously if you take the time to look someone up and see where their gear came from you can make your own assessments but why do that when groups are already asking for 20 ilvls higher than would ever be necessary in a group of decent players.

I tried getting a Heroic Argus group a few nights this past week when bored. At 956 I was instantly declined for some, others just time out. Never a response from anyone and never a group. I play casually now but am still consistently in the 80th-90th percentile for my ilvl, without any BIS legendaries, and some spotty gear in other spots. When I raided seriously, I had multiple top 10 parses for my class. I can't even get a response from groups but the 960 guy who is probably just another average Joe gets the invite every time.

Last week I gave away 3 Heroic upgrades to people who could use the added ilvl to bring their average dps up. I guess I need to be selfish and hang onto those to boost my own ilvl just to be considered for a group where I'll get to carry bunch of mediocre players.

[Trend]

I tried getting a Heroic Argus group a few nights this past week when bored. At 956 I was instantly declined for some, others just time out. Never a response from anyone and never a group. I play casually now but am still consistently in the 80th-90th percentile for my ilvl, without any BIS legendaries, and some spotty gear in other spots. When I raided seriously, I had multiple top 10 parses for my class. I can't even get a response from groups but the 960 guy who is probably just another average Joe gets the invite every time.

If you're a great player and you just don't want to make time for serious raiding anymore, that's understandable, but PUGs are what PUGs are. You're going to have a PUG experience. There is nothing in your app for anyone to go, whoa, this is one the best players in the world!

If you are able to raid at set times, I would highly suggest looking for a guild / raid that has good players but fits the hours per week. That's what I did and I am absolutely loving it. PUGs suck.

[Jujudrood]

The reason expectations are high in these types of groups is because it's a pug group from some rando CRZ realm and no one cares who you are nor do they wish to learn anything about you.
People who have 960 show up doing sub-1mil dps or die 1min into the fight just as often as a sub-940ilvl player goes in and carries the load.
But odds are, the higher the ilvl, the higher the performance, even if the odds, in a general sense, are still shit.

When you are some random joe on the internet, people have no idea who you are, so the only thing they can go off of is ilvl or M+score (based on the content for which you are applying).
When applying, include a link to your armory, a baller parse from a relevant boss/dungeon, include aotc, something to entice them to look at your comment.
If they don't, then move on.
If none of them do, them's the breaks.

If you are a casual raider who doesn't have time for a guild and formal raid times, then this is your life.
Make a group or deal with shit queues, it's that simple.

[Mojo03]

People want to blast through it without issues.

Having higher geared people shows experience and higher numbers.

Happens every tier.

[Swampmoose]

If you're a great player and you just don't want to make time for serious raiding anymore, that's understandable, but PUGs are what PUGs are. You're going to have a PUG experience. There is nothing in your app for anyone to go, whoa, this is one the best players in the world!

If you are able to raid at set times, I would highly suggest looking for a guild / raid that has good players but fits the hours per week. That's what I did and I am absolutely loving it. PUGs suck.

I'm in a guild right now. They aren't top tier, but are slowly progressing through things which is fine with me. We just did Heroic Coven last week so Argus will be soon. I'm having fun with it for the most part. We were done with the raid week so I figured I would just try to find a group for Argus for a shot at a trinket. It's not something I would regularly do but it became very apparent how ilvl trumps everything to people making these groups. Probably not going to make many more attempts to get into one of these groups. It would probably just be a crap show anyways. Yes PUGs suck lol.

[Trend]

I'm in a guild right now. They aren't top tier, but are slowly progressing through things which is fine with me. We just did Heroic Coven last week so Argus will be soon. I'm having fun with it for the most part. We were done with the raid week so I figured I would just try to find a group for Argus for a shot at a trinket. It's not something I would regularly do but it became very apparent how ilvl trumps everything to people making these groups. Probably not going to make many more attempts to get into one of these groups. It would probably just be a crap show anyways. Yes PUGs suck lol.

Yeah I hear you. For trinkets and trinket upgrades on alts I just do normal since it's less of a dumpster fire than trying to find a good HC PUG. It seems rare to have more than 1 wipe even with some clueless ppl there.

[Deleted]

It's fun how ppl in this thread suggest to increase ilev through m+, while in the m+ thread ppl suggest to get gear through antorus normal xD

[Aoyi]

Honestly, this isn't the problem the OP is making it out to be. Yes, there are those groups, but I've also pugged a TON of Argus on my alts that are well under 945. I ran it again the other day on a 932 alt, so its not even like this is more of a problem today than when this was posted. The group finder is full of runs to choose from. If you don't meet the requirements for a posted run, apply to a different one, or form your own group.