Burning of Teldressil Broadcast Text (Spoiler!!!)

[Tripzzz]

The Alliance assumed the Horde had hostile intentions. They knew jack shit.

Yes the in game characters made that assumption. It's not hard for the Alliance to assume the Horde hates them and vice versa. However we as players know Slyvanus plans to order the Horde to attack Stormwind. Stop acting like this info is unknown. Slyvanus new dialogue has her saying she will bring the Alliance to it's knees.

That's called an assumption. You approve killing people based on assumptions?

I approve killing Horde no matter what.

[ello]

I'm not sure what the debate is here. The quest is literally called "Free samples" lmao

The crown has ordered SI:7 to infiltrate the goblin mining operation and collect any information we can find on this mysterious new substance. My agents have infiltrated the camp, but the clock is ticking and we need to get our hands on some extracted ore samples fast. In other words, I need someone who can take the direct approach. Someone who can handle a fight against overwhelming odds and come out alive. Take the ore samples to Khargus Stonemantle for analysis when you return.

I'm not sure how a few Gobbos is "overwhelming odds" but if you don't know what "direct approach" means in this context you are being deliberately obtuse.

[CasualNoob]

why is it something so negative

Not negative. It just contradict logic. When faction which just react called as "starting faction". One can't "start" with reaction. And when simple reconnaissance operation with dozen SI:7 operative's painted as "war", or something. It's like saying that Serbia started WWI by killing Archduke Franz Ferdinand. So sane players oppose this.

[iamthedevil]

What's funny is that azerite is popping up in more places around the sword than the goblins are mining. They could have picked some up without bothering anyone.

[Kraddark]

Why are people acting like this war is new? It began when the Orcs invaded Azeroth. The only surprising thing about this whole event is that the Alliance didn't out right destroy the Horde's mining operation.

Cloak and Dagger operations only work when there is some level of doubt concerning who actually pulled them off. There are only two significant factions left in this world.

[Zulkhan]

Nice contribution.

Indeed, what an embarassament. If only he would have put a few solid "Sylvanus" and "Whorechief" all around, the intellectual value would have rise to the skies.

[Aucald]

Let's not make this about any single poster or exchange - it's already a thread in danger of derailment.

[Orby]

And thats why I am not into the horde lore-wise. Sylvanas is just evil as fxxk.

Doesnt help to see Saurfang kissing her ass either

Saurfang: True Warchief.

[Nize]

Doesnt help to see Saurfang kissing her ass either

Saurfang: True Warchief.

Actually...

from the new broadcast text this build

"Honor means nothing to a corpse, Saurfang. You have the luxury of underestimating death, but it is something with which I am intimately familiar.
Maybe you don't care if your people die so long as it is honorable, but to me, this Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.
So die your warrior's death, High Overlord Saurfang. It means little to me. Perhaps I will raise your broken body to serve me once more.
Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son."

The two of them seem to clash.

[Dr Assbandit]

I've sort of given up on any lore being salvaged by the current WoW writers and their insistence on letting terrible authors doing the writing for them for out of game storytelling. Oftentimes it feels like the characters inside the game are completely different versions of the ones shown in pretty much all of the books so far by Ms. Golden or Knaack who thankfully hasn't written anything for WoW for a while.

Now we have BfA which to anyone looking at the entirety of WoW history makes shit all sense. Characters we have recently saved in the prior expansion are now killing their saviors due to absolutely rubbish reasons on which they joined the Horde when by any sensible writing they would be neutral and so would the army of the light after Argus when the Horde helped them there. I play Alliance and Voidelves while they look cool and edgy make no sense and I'm pretty sure are just going to lead to the further butchering of Allerias character by proxy.

They really can't seem to make up their mind on which direction to take with several main lore figures. If that wasn't enough the burning of Teldrassil I can guarantee was just added as a shock factor which honestly would have been actually shocking and cool if the whole premise of BfA made any lick of sense. Conflict can be powerful and make for great storytelling, but shoving it down players throats with asinine reasoning with a sprinkling of lore figures acting out of character over and over again just makes it all seem redundant.

I'm just honestly hoping at this point that there is a lot of hidden in-game story that lends credence to the whole shit-show that is BfA so far that isn't being shown in the datamined information but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Ailil]

So no more ambiguity anymore? The horde is just evil?

[Traveler Voltin]

after reading the new text all i can say is
fuck you blizzard. evil again and MoP all over again.

[Mehrunes]

Th Horde and Alliance are sworn enemies. The Alliance attacking the Horde after learning they are mining Azerite isn't "just because". It's a preemptive attack to prevent the Horde from gaining an upper hand over the Alliance. The fact the Horde planned to attack Stormwind is just the cherry on top.

Given how they don't know why the Horde is mining Azerite by the time they attack, try harder.

Never said it wasn't a start to hostilies. It said it the actions were aggressive and necessary. The Horde would be validated in a preemptive attack on an enemy faction with hostile intentions. I dont recall the Alliance having outright hostile inentions to the Horde in WoD. Thats because i barwly played. However if you could provide proof of Alliance hostile intentions, the Hordea actions in Ashran would be jusified.

But the Alliance has no proof here. Ergo, as per your own logic, it's not justified or validated.

Because that's how blizzard wrote it. And they aren't psychic. They just know the Horde isn't going to be baking maggot brownies with Azerite sprinkles.

"They just know." "They aren't psychic." Pick one.

[Deleted]

horde strikes first again. sylvanas burned teldrasill because she wanted to capture kalimdor under a horde empire. saurufang vs sylvanas also inc. fuck you blizzard. mop all over again.

Sylvanas Attacking Teldrassil
It is uncertain, Warchief.
Opportunity?
Warchief, may I ask why we want to capture Teldrassil?

"Time is sensitive here, but I respect that you seek to know more.
<Sylvanas points to Silithus on the map>.
No matter what I do, THIS will change the balance of power.
And azerite sightings are coming in from across the world, $n. We still do not know its full potential, we only know that it will create a new generation of warfare.
What will war look like in twenty years? In a hundred?"

"The Horde's children, and their children's children, will curse our memories as they burn.
If life had any mercy at all, you and I would exist in peace for the rest of our days. We have both seen enough of war, but neither of us has seen the last of it.
The Horde and the Alliance have been at a stalemate. Both of our armies have been exhausted against the Legion.
But therein, I see an opportunity."

"We take this azerite and use it to conquer Kalimdor.
We build the greatest empire ever known; one that is untouchable against the Alliance.
With the seas parting our lands, rather than mere borders, we can live and prosper without conflict.
That is how you ensure the survival of the Horde for the next hundred years, $n."



DO NOT QUESTION ME, SAURFANG.
Honor means nothing to a corpse, Saurfang. You have the luxury of underestimating death, but it is something with which I am intimately familiar.
Maybe you don't care if your people die so long as it is honorable, but to me, this Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.
So die your warrior's death, High Overlord Saurfang. It means little to me. Perhaps I will raise your broken body to serve me once more.
Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son.


http://www.wowhead.com/news=281843/b...-and-lordaeron

[Mehrunes]

Wrong. The Alliance never ordered any attacks on anyone. frogger237 clearly explained that already.

Given how they were bending over backwards and pretending an order is the same thing as performed action, they aren't exactly an authority on anything. I mean, by your standards, sure. By anything above your standards, lel no. Alliance is sent there to blow shit up in the Horde camp the moment Alliance player sets foot in Silithus. That's an attack. That you're ordered to perform by the quest giver higher-up. Before the Alliance even finds out what the Horde is planning to do with the Azerite.

Sure. If the goblins value the shredders more than their own lives, but thats on them. However the Alliance never ordered to kill anyone. Of course they aren't told they can't kill anyone.

You don't need to kill anyone for there to be an attack. If someone hits you in the face with a baseball bat, are you not being attacked? Blowing up Horde's shredders is already an attack.

[Traveler Voltin]

you would have thought with golden helping with lore it would be somewhat less stupid but turns out the went further into the rabbit hole of stupid.

[Mehrunes]

And just to note(not towards you spesifically) in Warcraft, goblins who is mining shit like Azerite is not civilians. No need to stretch that. I believe the goblins whos there in Silithus doesn't actually know what they are mining, but they know the are mining some heavy stuff for Gallywix. You can compare this to an old vanilla quests were Horde kill dwarves to make them stop digging, though the magnitude of that might not be comperable. Civilians in Warcraft does not go around and mine shit from the wounds of the World, coincidentially where Sargeras just struck his sword.

Are miners military personnel? No. Then they are civilians contractors. And Horde killed Dwarves to make them stop digging because these Dwarves were on Horde territory, not because they were digging per se.

It's starting aggression with people who have hostile intentions towards you. The Horde and Alliance are sworn enemies. Did the Horde expect the Alliance to hand the Goblin miners some Gatorade?

I'd assume the Horde expected to be left alone in their own outposts. Something something property rights.

Yes the in game characters made that assumption. It's not hard for the Alliance to assume the Horde hates them and vice versa. However we as players know Slyvanus plans to order the Horde to attack Stormwind. Stop acting like this info is unknown. Slyvanus new dialogue has her saying she will bring the Alliance to it's knees.

Given how the discussion is about in-lore perspective, stop bringing up irrelevant shit.

Not negative. It just contradict logic. When faction which just react called as "starting faction". One can't "start" with reaction. And when simple reconnaissance operation with dozen SI:7 operative's painted as "war", or something. It's like saying that Serbia started WWI by killing Archduke Franz Ferdinand. So sane players oppose this.

Archduke Ferdinand wasn't killed by Serbian soldiers in a military operation. Sane players engage in false equivalencies, apparently. And attacking the Horde when they are mining stuff isn't just a reaction.

[Katie45]

I'm sorry but it's becoming clearer and clearer that it was the horde that ONCE AGAIN initiated the conflict. The more we find out the more I don't fucking want to play BfA.
The last nail in the coffin will be that they turn sylvanas pure evil and make her a raidboss, that's when I'll say bye.

Those morons over at blizz hq are just purposefully pushing the horde vs alliance conflict when people are tired of it.

Sylvanas was always pure evil, did you play cata, even garrosh didnt like her

[Orby]

Actually...

from the new broadcast text this build

"Honor means nothing to a corpse, Saurfang. You have the luxury of underestimating death, but it is something with which I am intimately familiar.
Maybe you don't care if your people die so long as it is honorable, but to me, this Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.
So die your warrior's death, High Overlord Saurfang. It means little to me. Perhaps I will raise your broken body to serve me once more.
Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son."

The two of them seem to clash.

goooooood

[Mehrunes]

Why are people acting like this war is new? It began when the Orcs invaded Azeroth. The only surprising thing about this whole event is that the Alliance didn't out right destroy the Horde's mining operation.

TIL First War never ended.