Now people that said slyvanas and horde did not attack first could finally shut it!

[Goldielocks]

Horde starting the next arms race literally before the door was shut on Legion started it.

Doesn't matter. The Alliance were the ones who attacked first. The point of this thread is about attacking first and the Horde didn't do that.

[jackofwind]

No such thing as attacking first at this point considering the war has never ended.

The Orcs attacked first when they came through the Dark Portal, everything after that is incidental.

[Shibito]

God you alliance fanboys are cringy

[Kathranis]

But in the opening cinematic doesn't her Horde warcry rally Saurfang to charge into battle waving the Horde banner?

Seems at odds with what the broadcast text is now presenting. I guess we might be looking at another case of Garrosh where the writers can't get on the same page.

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No such thing as attacking first at this point considering the war has never ended.

The Orcs attacked first when they came through the Dark Portal, everything after that is incidental.

If you take it back far enough doesn't everything just stem from the void lords trying to invade reality?

[Zyky]

In the battle for Lorederon Dialogue on Alliance side,

"Today, we will claim our victory over the Eastern Kingdoms and take back that which was stolen from us so long ago.
We stand as one to fight for those who were lost at the battle for Teldrassil - for the families who have lost their homelands.
That despicably cowardly act of war, made it clear that we must fight for the survival of our next hundred generations."

http://www.wowhead.com/news=281843/b...-and-lordaeron

Definitely seems like Sylvanus struck first, but expecting to lose UC?

It seems like Sylvanas strikes first CURRENTLY. It's still very early in Alpha, think about how Wrathion was the main character in Highmountain for almost all of Legion Alpha just to be changed in the last couple months.

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Still doesn't mean that Burning the Tree was not done by Genn to stir the pot. I'm genrally alliance but I would not put it past him to force Boyduin into a war.

What's interesting most of all here is in the same post that was linked in the quoted wowhead link is Sylvanas is talking about wanting to CAPTURE Teldrassil, she doesn't seem interested in destroying it.

[Steampunkette]

Still doesn't mean that Burning the Tree was not done by Genn to stir the pot. I'm genrally alliance but I would not put it past him to force Boyduin into a war.

Genn wouldn't do that intentionally. He's shown time and again that he'll throw away soldiers for his vengeance, but not civilians.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Sylvanas has already died 3 times. But Alleria specifically mentions that she's "Died" Twice. Alleria has also "Opened the Door" for Durzan in his own words.

Methinks you're looking to the wrong Windrunner.

I don't count Silverpine, personally. Since that was pretty promptly undone by the Val'kyr. Who I honestly think are in on this whole N'zoth revival deal along with Helya.

I've got a mighty conspiracy theory that we're gonna find out basically everything Sylvanas has done since ICC (her second death) has been toward reviving N'zoth. Due to whatever deal she made with the Val'kyr.

[Steampunkette]

I don't count Silverpine, personally. Since that was pretty promptly undone by the Val'kyr. Who I honestly think are in on this whole N'zoth revival deal along with Helya.

I've got a mighty conspiracy theory that we're gonna find out basically everything Sylvanas has done since ICC (her second death) has been toward reviving N'zoth. Due to whatever deal she made with the Val'kyr.

Alleria's "First Death" was metaphorical in getting stuck in Outland. Her second was metaphorical in getting imprisoned. Couldn't the third be her banishment from Silvermoon as yet another metaphorical death? The one that Opened the Door?

"Nether-Prince Durzaan: The door opens. Yes... this should suit our needs. "

[hulkgor]

In the battle for Lorederon Dialogue on Alliance side,

"Today, we will claim our victory over the Eastern Kingdoms and take back that which was stolen from us so long ago.
We stand as one to fight for those who were lost at the battle for Teldrassil - for the families who have lost their homelands.
That despicably cowardly act of war, made it clear that we must fight for the survival of our next hundred generations."

http://www.wowhead.com/news=281843/b...-and-lordaeron

Definitely seems like Sylvanus struck first, but expecting to lose UC?

Yea, "Sylvanus" started it with sending SI:7 to stop goblin (aka kill them) at Silithus. Damn "Sylvanus", oh wait, it wasn't her.

[skitzin]

Well if we talk ownership about something... it ends when you are dead.
And there are LIVING refugees from Lordaeron in Stormwind.

There is one person and one person only that has any claim - peasants and nobles do not have right of rule or ownership - and that's Arthas' sister. Additionally, since the survivors pleged themselves to Stormwind they are no longer members of the Lordaeron Kingdom.

You are right that ownership ends on death. But in the case of the former Kingdom of Lordaeron the lands become no-mans land without an heir. Thus since the forsaken took the land they claim to it. Taking it at this point is an invasion not a reclaiming like the Alliance text states.

[ohwell]

As i said in other thread - if N'Zoth was caught up fucking Sylvanas in the ass people would defend her that he just tripped on her and it all is just huuuuge misunderstanding

Except the funny thing is he's already in bed with the other Windrunner and Alliance is defending that considering she nearly tainted the Sunwell which letting the void get the Sunwell would be far worse than anything Sylvanas has done.

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There is one person and one person only that has any claim - peasants and nobles do not have right of rule or ownership - and that's Arthas' sister. Additionally, since the survivors pleged themselves to Stormwind they are no longer members of the Lordaeron Kingdom.

You are right that ownership ends on death. But in the case of the former Kingdom of Lordaeron the lands become no-mans land without an heir. Thus since the forsaken took the land they claim to it. Taking it at this point is an invasion not a reclaiming like the Alliance text states.

Actually they do considering Calia denied the throne and as such has no claim to it.

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Alleria's "First Death" was metaphorical in getting stuck in Outland. Her second was metaphorical in getting imprisoned. Couldn't the third be her banishment from Silvermoon as yet another metaphorical death? The one that Opened the Door?

"Nether-Prince Durzaan: The door opens. Yes... this should suit our needs. "

Or you know, the quotes from the old gods could be mostly or almost entirely lies like we learned in the audio drama. Only a small fraction of what they say is true. By small fraction it doesn't mean that 1 statement can be part true, but rather they give you 20 lies and 1 truth.

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I don't count Silverpine, personally. Since that was pretty promptly undone by the Val'kyr. Who I honestly think are in on this whole N'zoth revival deal along with Helya.

I've got a mighty conspiracy theory that we're gonna find out basically everything Sylvanas has done since ICC (her second death) has been toward reviving N'zoth. Due to whatever deal she made with the Val'kyr.

Valkyr are diametrically opposed to old gods both in their original creation(Odyn) and the ones who worked with LK since LK was also opposed. Helya was only against Odyn deep down.

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It seems like Sylvanas strikes first CURRENTLY. It's still very early in Alpha, think about how Wrathion was the main character in Highmountain for almost all of Legion Alpha just to be changed in the last couple months.

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What's interesting most of all here is in the same post that was linked in the quoted wowhead link is Sylvanas is talking about wanting to CAPTURE Teldrassil, she doesn't seem interested in destroying it.

The Wrathion thing was changed because it made absolutely no sense. It has nothing to do with something being changed on a whim. The only way they'll change something is if it is undone by someone looking into something like with the Highmountain thing because it was impossible for Wrathion to have been there for generations.

[meroko]

Man, I hate the whole "if this happens I'll quit" shit but if she dies, I seriously may quit.

[Zyky]

The Wrathion thing was changed because it made absolutely no sense. It has nothing to do with something being changed on a whim. The only way they'll change something is if it is undone by someone looking into something like with the Highmountain thing because it was impossible for Wrathion to have been there for generations.

It made perfect sense, were you not a part of the Alpha because the whole story changed. Originally Wrathion in Tauren form was brought there by Baine and Baine and 'Wrathion' aka Ebonhorn the Shaman helped Mayla become the Chieftain of the Highmountain Clans. So yes it did make perfect sense. To someone who never did it, which you obviously didn't or you'd remember that 'Ebonhorn' was originally an ally of Baine brought to Thunder Totem, it would be confusing because you don't have the whole story(yet you think you do which is pretty funny).

[GreenJesus]

Man, I hate the whole "if this happens I'll quit" shit but if she dies, I seriously may quit.

If Blizzard kills Sylvanas off it proves that they literally have no clue how to write characters that aren't EVIL or GOODY GOOD. They ruined Garrosh already and now it looks like they are going to kill ANOTHER warchief.. 3 expansions in a row (WoD doesn't exist and never happened). Can they please stop killing our favorite Horde leaders? k Thanks bye.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Christie Golden @christieGolden6h:
Also bear in mind that some of the stuff that has been "unearthed" is not accurate.

[Deleted]

as a lore fan i only get really angry when i read all this. "oh the horde is not doing anything wrong" I love lore read all books beside chronicles. and as a alliance player it fucking sucks and hurts how they keep getting beaten at everystep. and the horde centric lore. What battels have the alliance won aginst the horde? none. Since Cata the alliance have only lost land and been getting the short end of battels. Wraftgate was not the hordes fault was only a rogue faction of the Horde. Sunreavers did not break dalaran neutraility pact, it was garrosh horde who stole the focusing irsh and used dalaran portal network to iligally get into darnassus and steal the Bell.

and at the end of the burning of teldrasill, it will probaly turn out that. IT was a rogue faction that "pushed" the botton to destroy Teldrasill, that sylvanas only wanted a show of force, and oh no, another rogue part of the horde just went to far, so it is not the hordes fault at all for the burning of Teldrasill.
that or old gods. Because the hordes have never done anything wrong ,and sylvanas is waifu so she have not done anything bad

[Deleted]

i like being the bad guy

get over it snowflakes

<3

10/chars

[Deleted]

Seriously, Sylvanas is just evil as fxxk. She always is.

You dont play UD for love and peace. The foundamental story of Forsaken since vanilla is about spreading plague to the whole Azeroth, infecting and killing all living things, and making them undead. Plotting, scheming, horrible tests on living beings, that is the Forsaken.

There are no needs to defend Sylvanas or her intention or whatever. Just accept that and be a happy undead.

^this so much
I don't know why so many people are blaming blizz for "hurr durr horde is bad again shit writing", just to ignore the lore of the Forsaken.

[Flarelaine]

Not a stab at you but that text annoys me so much. Stormwind and the Alliance never owned those lands. Lordaeron owned them and the blood elves owned the rest. Just because your Kingdoms were besties doesn't mean you automatically get ownership of those lands.

Humans owned those lands. Not just Lordaeron, but Gilneas as well.

[Soeroah]

Oh, if I had a dollar for every time someone took as concrete canon datamined text.

Remember when Grand Magister Rommath betrayed the Horde and Wrathion turned out to be hiding among the Highmountain Tauren? Good times.