Draenor Orcs or DRAENOR Orcs?

[Deleted]

Time for my first thread, oh boy
*clears throat*

BfA Alpha Speculation everyone, and I know this topic is spicy, but first: The facts.
After Ion Hazzikostas mentioned Draenor Orcs as a future allied race in the January 30 Q&A, we all didn't know, what Draenor Orcs are meant. We live in a timeline where Draenor isn't really "Draenor", because Outland, but I guess I don't need to explain that to you.
Last week's Alpha 26010 added a Gorgrond map, which first sparked the discussion. Gorgrond, not Blade's Edge Mountains. Also the Gorgrond map had no structures whatsoever, because it was stripped clean of them. I assume because it's not needed for a scenario, which is going to be built from half-scratch anyway. So it was obvious that it will be the alternative Orcs from Draenor...right?
Well...not really, because Alpha 26032 added the "Mag'har Direwolf", a direct link to the Mag'har Orcs from Outland.

The question at this point is...why? We now have one point for Draenor Orcs and one point for Draenor...well, Outland Orcs. At this point I'd first like you to answer the poll, what you think would be better. And why?

Now to the speculations, and I really want to know your opinion on that, because otherwise I wouldn't open a thread for that matter.
In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the Allied Race will be the Mag'har Orcs, but from alternative Draenor.
I know you'll ask one very important thing right now and asking that is only right: But the Mag'har are from Outland, how is that possible?
I first wanted to argue for the Outland alternative, too, but then I read up on the Mag'har. Who and what are they? So I read through their Gamepedia article and found many very important clues. One lead to another in my research, so I'll present them in the exact same order.
1. "Mag'har" literally means "uncorrupted": This is a very relevant point. The Draenor orcs speak the same Orcish as our Orcs do, or at leas we have no case against that, so "Mag'har" will mean the same thing to them. When the orcs sacrificed EVERYTHING in Patch 6.1 you can see members of different clans. Also, the raid in Patch 6.2 showed members of different clans, very prominent in the council of hellfire-fight. We don't really know how many orcs drank the Blood of Mannoroth at that point, we can just assume it were less orcs because of their losses in most parts of Draenor and the focus on Tanaan as a zone. But we can be certain, that there are indeed uncorrupted orcs. In all clans, not only in the frostwolves, because of one thing that wasn't really prominent in the WoD Lore...
2. The red pox and the timeline problem: The virus that made our orcs immune or at least partially immune to the fel corruption did appear "years prior to the Blood Pact with Mannoroth", so is it the same with Draenor? We know that things are different, because well I dunno, and correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't really hear anything about that in WoD, at least not after Patch 6.1. But having the red pox as a real THING in Draenor Draenor creates the perfect bridge for one thing I think everyone who is interested in the Draenor Orc Allied Race wants...
3. Uncorrupted, but different: The Mag'har orcs are boring. Not in the slightest in terms of lore, don't get me wrong, and not in terms of characters, but in terms of clan diversity. They are members of all clans, members of all clans forming one assimilated culture of "just orcs" since decades now. If you allow even the Iron Horde-loyal orcs to be uncorrupted via the red pox, you can use any orc from any clan as a possible Player Character. And that's awesome, right? This opens the realistic lore-founded possibility for the Blackrock and the Laughing Skull Clan, this opens it for every clan we visited on Draenor. You could call it lame storytelling, but in the end, wouldn't it be just pure logic that lets the red pox exist in alternative Draenor? That will lead to the orcish speaking population to call the uncorrupted Orcs "Mag'har"? That will lead the horde protagonists, together with Eitrigg, Thrall, Saurfang (or whoever, that's some discussion for another day), to recruit them for the Horde? I think it is. But what do YOU think?

Thank you for reading this, I hope I was succesfull in throwing in some new firewood to the already burning discussion with my first thread™. I hope we can have a nice politeful discussion here, but maybe it will just be a shitshow, obviously I can't see in the future and maybe this whole essay is obsolete in a few hours when a new Alpha patch renames the "Mag'har Direwolf" in, I dunno, "Gorgrond Wolfie", or whatever, but we are here to speculate, because that's why we're here, right?

[Lochton]

Just stick with Mag'har, they are the better known.

[Deleted]

Just stick with Mag'har, they are the better known.

That's the point. "Mag'har" is possibly not a single entity anymore.

[Soulwind]

There is barely any clan identity left in Outland, they're all just Mag'har.

The orcs from Draenor still belong to several different clans that were united under the Iron Horde.

Visually speaking, Draenor orcs are much more interesting for a new race, because you can have customization options from the different clans, whereas Mag'har for the most part have just been shown as brown.

Lorewise, it'd make more sense to recruit the Mag'har (except for the fact that they were already recruited in TBC, but so have been other races that aren't playable), as they would be leaving a dead world and joining their people in Azeroth. The orcs from Draenor have nothing to do with our Azeroth or its history, and other than being bored with the lack of enemies, they can safely stay in their world.

Bringing allies from an alternate reality is a can of worms Blizzard should be afraid of opening again, specially considering last time someone did it, it was a world threatening act of villainy that we spent months stopping. Making it somehow fine because they're joining the playable Horde instead of the NPC Horde requires quite a suspense of disbelief.

[Aaronioslo]

could be both, with au orcs joining alliance(with the currently datamined plot involving saurfang) and outland orcs joining horde.

[Deleted]

Maghar would be kinda okay if you still get all the customization. Storywise though, they're very unimpressive compared to a bunch of Orc Clans kinda in their prime, although they got clubbered in WoD. I don't care about the alternative timeline anymore really. The story at this point is mostly atrocious anyway. Sentences like "The Void Elves.. their numbers are endless..." underline that very clearly. AU Gul'dan didn't bother me much, other AU characters probably won't either.

Orcs on the Alliance and Humans on the Horde is still one of the most retarded ideas ever.

[seleri]

Draenor orcs bring at least 3x the customization of just mag'har. There's no reason to want Outland mag'har over Draenor orcs. If you're an RPer, you'll still get brown orcs with Draenor orcs and can just say you're a mag'har from Outland.

[Deleted]

I'd rather have mag'har. Even if they are more boring, the story is less stupid that way.

Customization isnt really an issue, any orc should be able to get tattoos or war paint.

[Deleted]

I need me that Shattered Hand Rogue!

[Lochton]

That's the point. "Mag'har" is possibly not a single entity anymore.

No, but it is the single identifier of 'Brown skinned' orcs.

[Khaza-R]

I would prefer as little AU references as possible but to me the wording so far is unambiguous that they mean WoD Orcs.

And honestly, for varieties sake I think it’s a more interesting option unless they add new skin tones to the Mag’har

[Deleted]

I would prefer as little AU references as possible but to me the wording so far is unambiguous that they mean WoD Orcs.

And honestly, for varieties sake I think it’s a more interesting option unless they add new skin tones to the Mag’har

Yeah, they would prolly just throw them in without mentioning anything really. Grommash will just be like: We're helping you like you helped us deal with the Legion.

[Deleted]

Draenor Orcs is the only option that makes sense. The different clans still have their clan identity and culture intact and it leaves for more customization options when rolling a new character. Brown skin, dark skin, pale skin, longer hairstyles, shattered hands(maybe) or void Orcs (shadowmoon), etc. And they still have notable leaders that we could approach to bring them into the Horde, Durotan or Grom.

You could call them Mag'har, as it literally means uncorrupted Orcs. But the Mag'har from Outland are few in numbers and don't have much customization options aside from being brown. They have no clan culture or identity left. They are leaderless after Siege of Orgrimmar and the defeat of Garrosh.

Draenor Orcs have so much more possibility. You're getting brown skin Orcs (which would be the Outland Mag'har) plus SO MUCH MORE.

[Deleted]

Grommash or Durotan will gather all the remaining orc clans under one banner: the Mag'har Orcs.

[yetgdhfgh]

AU Orcs would make the most sense becuase of how many there could be and Thrall certainly could use his power within the Frostwolve clan to make it happen seeing how the Frostwolves must surely be the most dominant clan in AU Draenor because of the loses the other clans suffered.

Outland Orcs could work seeing how that planet must surely be melted away into outerspace by now but its the fact most of the Mag'har orcs surely mustve sided with Garry and perished in the SoO.

[Deleted]

Personally I would like to see the Outland Mag'har joining the horde, because they already joined the horde in TBC. Furthermore there would be an adequat counterpart for the outland orcs - the broken for the alliance. If Blizzard would take the draenor orcs I don't care because a lot of people just wanna play brown orcs. But on the other hand it would make much more sense to get the outland orcs since their homeland is fragmented and corrupted.

[Soulwind]

I need me that Shattered Hand Rogue!

I'm sure pale-skinned orcs will be an option.

But I don't know if they could make the hand work. Maybe some sort of iron hand that doesn't move? They'd still need to retouch most animations just for that...

[Deleted]

Grommash or Durotan will gather all the remaining orc clans under one banner: the Mag'har Orcs.

That's also what I think will happen. Mag'har will simply be the title of any uncorrupted Orc, wether they're from Outland or Draenor.

That explains the Gorgrond map and the name Mag'har wolf. Because Mag'har simply means uncorrupted, which the Draenor Orcs are as well.

Besides, "Draenor Orcs" doesn't sound right. We didn't get "Argus Draenei" or "Suramar Elves" either. They need a fitting name. Mag'har fits that bill, as it simply means uncorrupted Orcs, which any Orc that isn't green is.

[MatthiasLehner]

Don't know why on earth anyone would like Draenor shitfest to be involved again. Use Outland, the main universe's contents.

[Deleted]

Don't know why on earth anyone would like Draenor shitfest to be involved again. Use Outland, the main universe's contents.

Your opinion.