Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[lordsesho]

I'm getting real sick of the "Orcs on Alliance/Kul Tiran Humans on Horde" meme. Neither makes any logical sense.

yeah...suddenly saurfang betrays horde and start killing orgrimmar orcs in a war just cuz he dont like sylvanas...this is very retarded

[Steampunkette]

... oh... oh damn....

So we know Saurfang's capture is AFTER Teldrassil and Lordaeron. What if he's staying in Stormwind because he does want to talk to Anduin about what REALLY happened?

Not just whether or not the Horde is responsible for the burning of Teldrassil, but the actual MOTIVATION for Teldrassil and the whole "Sylvanas wants peace but the only peace she thinks we can get is to be on separate sides of the planet" thing... How would -that- shit play out? There's people who think he's going to lapdog to Anduin, but the dude's so die-hard-horde I can barely fathom that possibility.

What if that's his actual intent, and Anduin, offering his next lie, hides the truth willfully because he doesn't believe peace is possible, anymore? What if he throws Saurfang into prison, or worse: Frames him for attempted assassination and flatly kills the aged orc?

... that would make for one HELL of a story.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

... oh... oh damn....

So we know Saurfang's capture is AFTER Teldrassil and Lordaeron. What if he's staying in Stormwind because he does want to talk to Anduin about what REALLY happened?

Not just whether or not the Horde is responsible for the burning of Teldrassil, but the actual MOTIVATION for Teldrassil and the whole "Sylvanas wants peace but the only peace she thinks we can get is to be on separate sides of the planet" thing... How would -that- shit play out? There's people who think he's going to lapdog to Anduin, but the dude's so die-hard-horde I can barely fathom that possibility.

What if that's his actual intent, and Anduin, offering his next lie, hides the truth willfully because he doesn't believe peace is possible, anymore? What if he throws Saurfang into prison, or worse: Frames him for attempted assassination and flatly kills the aged orc?

... that would make for one HELL of a story.

That's not even in Anduin's character...like at all.

[Steampunkette]

That's not even in Anduin's character...like at all.

No, it isn't.

But if the Boy-King sits at the Master's Table? He'd need to start acting out of character.

[Deleted]

yeah...suddenly saurfang betrays horde and start killing orgrimmar orcs in a war just cuz he dont like sylvanas...this is very retarded

"orcs for alliance" that's... not how orcs work (work work)

[EbaumsTipster]

Sylvanas coup is just being built up early on instead of a mid expansion patch. Between the Desolate Council and Saurfang there will clearly be friction in the Horde this expansion. I don't think Sylvanas will be a raid boss but definitely an antagonist and Nathanos may be being set up as her replacement for Forsaken figurehead.

[Nathanyel]

This gets me back to all the old german fairly tales we were told as kids. That stuff was nightmare fuel.

German children in the Middle Ages were simply more metal than you

[Ningjinq]

That and this is a Fantasy world, he can just get his old body back if needed.

I really hope that doesn’t happen. Deaths need to actually mean something in WoW. Bringing him back as a Loa or spirit would be far preferable imo.

[Arbs]

Sylvanas coup is just being built up early on instead of a mid expansion patch. Between the Desolate Council and Saurfang there will clearly be friction in the Horde this expansion. I don't think Sylvanas will be a raid boss but definitely an antagonist and Nathanos may be being set up as her replacement for Forsaken figurehead.

Or Nathanos will blindlfully follow her & the Alliance & Horde kill him.

[EbaumsTipster]

Or Nathanos will blindlfully follow her & the Alliance & Horde kill him.

I really doubt they'd give him a model and so much focus if he was just another Nazgrim.

[Ningjinq]

Lots of characters get unique models that are just loot piñatas. Like that boss at the end of Freehold.

[Deleted]

No, it isn't.

But if the Boy-King sits at the Master's Table? He'd need to start acting out of character.

You have to remember that Old Gods like to be vague on purpose.

[Nathanyel]

So was every other Undead. Sylvanas wasn't this poor special person.

Actually, Sylvanas was very special to Arthas. Her persistence vexed him, so he made sure to give her a "special" treatment.
Maybe the writers at the time didn't put much thought into it, it's certainly not supposed to be "deep", but you also can't deny that it can be interpreted in the way Steampunkette did, and this is far from the first time I've heard this theory, by the way (to counter the argumentum ad populum)

Yes, zombies and control of the dead are often a metaphor for slavery, but just like rape, that's a very perverse way of forcing your will unto others.
Metaphors are fluid, open to interpretation, maybe beyond what the writer even thought of.

You could just argue that it's more about slavery, but somehow, many here express it in a way that implies "you're crazy for even suggesting it's about rape instead"

Sylvanas being an allegory for rape is a bit insulting because obvious reasons. Yeah she was raised into Undeath by Arthas but guess what, SO MANY THOUSANDS OF OTHERS WERE TO. Hell even Sylvanas has done it to others via her Val'kyr.

"victim later becomes offender" has certainly never happened before, right?
And just because not every victim of the Scourge is portrayed this way doesn't mean Sylvanas, a prominent character even before TFT, can't receive a special treatment. Slavery and rape often worked hand in hand.

[Steampunkette]

You have to remember that Old Gods like to be vague on purpose.

Sure do!

And sometimes they say stuff pretty blatantly to try and trick you into not noticing. Like Alleria's banishment from Silvermoon as her "Third Death" that opens the door, with Nether Prince Durzaan flatly stating that the door has been opened! People still think it'll be Sylvanas's third death since becoming undead.

[EbaumsTipster]

Lots of characters get unique models that are just loot piñatas. Like that boss at the end of Freehold.

You're 100% right, and I'd agree with you if Nathano's hadn't gotten TWO updates: one from the regular undead hunter trainer, to both a story and model update that ties him to being a ranger connected to Sylvanas and made him "special" compared to other undead, and then ANOTHER update that made him even more unique looking.

The second update even made him less "Sylvanas" looking: if you didn't know the character he looks like some evil hunter guy, not a dark ranger. Nathanos got this sudden surge into the spotlight as a "forsaken champion" when he was prior just a popular niche character and the focus on him as been more than you would get for other champions like Malkorok, Nazgrim, Taylor, etc. Nobody else got such an update in story role and model. Either he's a raid boss, or he's going to act as some kind of replacement for Sylvanas: people have been complaining that the undead human faction is lead by an elf for a long time now.

[KrakHed]

You could just argue that it's more about slavery, but somehow, many here express it in a way that implies "you're crazy for even suggesting it's about rape instead"

Hell, isn't "mindrape" the popular term for heavily invasive and horrific mind control? Or has that changed? From what I recall, that kind of shit's been compared to rape for a long time. If that means all the former Scourge were metaphorically raped, then so be it. In a way, you could say they were violated on a far deeper level than actual rape, though some people might take offense to that because we don't have many real life Necromancers enslaving the dead.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I really hope that doesn’t happen. Deaths need to actually mean something in WoW. Bringing him back as a Loa or spirit would be far preferable imo.

Look I understand but Vol'Jin went out horribly, he deserved better. He was a WCIII character and got shafted in Legion. I'm no Horde fanatic or anything like that but guy needed more screentime.

"victim later becomes offender" has certainly never happened before, right?

Obviously it has, it's obvious Sylvanas became the very thing she hated Arthas for in the first place. That said, I don't need to read into being raised into Undeath as some allegory for rape.

[Steampunkette]

Look I understand but Vol'Jin went out horribly, he deserved better. He was a WCIII character and got shafted in Legion. I'm no Horde fanatic or anything like that but guy needed more screentime.

100% agreed with this post. Vol'jin deserved better.

[Blayze]

Not everyone gets what they deserve. It's entirely realistic that someone might become a world leader only to die almost instantly, especially in a war setting where they lead from the front because morale.

[Gaaz]

Given all the orc stuff that's been datamined, it's starting to look likely that there might be a least another pair of races launching in BfA beyond Zandalari/Dark Irons. The way I see it, it would make a lot more sense if BfA launched two pairs of race: Zandalari/Mag'har for the Horde, and Kul Tirans/Dark Irons for the Alliance. This way, it would align better if Alliance and Horde both got their continent's main race and one "subrace" that mainly adds different colors/customization to an existing race. The way it currently is, it's kind of misaligned that the Horde recruits Zandalari after going to Zandalar while the Alliance recruits Dark Irons out of the blue.

As for more? I'm not yet sure. Vulpera are being built up to be playable, but I'm not convinced they'll launch as such. My guess is currently along the lines of BfA launching Zandalari (H) and Kul Tirans (A) being proper counterparts, with Mag'gar (H) and Dark Irons (A) being their own counterparts. Down the line, maybe when Worgen and Goblins get updated, I think we'll see something like Vulpera (H) and Sethrak (A).

Thin humans? I don't think we'll see them exist as anything more than an NPC race, or if anything they might be an alternate customization option for Kul Tirans.

In case it is a clever fake, I will not comment on this. But might just as well leave this screen here: