Burning of Teldressil Broadcast Text (Spoiler!!!)

[Tripzzz]

Lmao. Do these people that continue to spazz out seriously fail to comprehend the Alliance and Horde are SWORN ENEMIES? There is way too much bad blood from the past to ever hope for peace. Atleast Slyvanus "run like the wind" Windrunner understands this. Thats why she plans to escape to Kalimdor and leave the Eastern Kingdoms to the Alliance. She can't win so she has to run like the wind.

[LazarusLong]

Azeroth still has no established concept of war crimes, period. Also, the Horde planned to conquer it. And just like Forsaken evacuated from Undercity, Night Elves will most likely evacuate from Darnassus. It's not like trees burn in an instant.

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Lmao. Do these people that continue to spazz out seriously fail to comprehend the Alliance and Horde are SWORN ENEMIES? There is way too much bad blood from the past to ever hope for peace. Atleast Slyvanus "run like the wind" Windrunner understands this. Thats why she plans to escape to Kalimdor and leave the Eastern Kingdoms to the Alliance. She can't win so she has to run like the wind.

Like France and UK? Or France and Germany? Or Germany and Russia? Or.. etc.

[omeomorfismo]

Garrosh occupied the Echo Isles and put it under marital law after their treasonous leader was presumed to be assassinated. Martial law isn't genocide.




--"Edge of Night," p5


Bosnia was a hyper-politicized issue, though. Look at the aversion of state actors to term the Rwandan genocide as such.


Dalaran was, at worst, ethnic cleansing. That isn't genocide, and racism wasn't even the driving factor. Also, it was more than just Vereesa, it was the Silver Covenant as well.


Since you're intent on making allusions to real life situations, I'll say this much: When you actually look at the numbers, and ignore "white racism" and "oppressed blacks" narratives, Jim Crow laws really didn't have an adverse effect on Black Communities. Segregation in the United States wasn't that bad. Segregation in Orgrimmar was even more harmless.

But given that irl Segregation is a contentious topic that would take a wall of text with citations every sentence, we really shouldn't derail the thread.


The Darkspear weren't confined to Orgrimmar's Slums. They had the opportunity to relocate themselves to the Echo Isles. Darkspear Hold is no Orgrimmar, but it would seem that the Trolls there weren't exactly going without.

-treacherous? he criticize hard him but he follow garrosh order until the attempted assassination.
and seriously, all echo island population was chained, maybe they wont executed maybe they will. my bad to call this genocide but surely at least this is ethnic cleasing. and this is because garrosh hated trolls.

-man, are you playing dumb?

2 paragrahs later.

Garrosh spurred his war wolf to the side of the army, clearing the way for a charge. "Heroes of the Forsaken! You are the point of my spear. Lift your arms; lift your voices; and do not stop until you lift the Horde banner upon those walls." Gorehowl dropped down. "Chaaaarge

and this without considering page 2 where he said

"Of course I see!" Garrosh answered. "The door is wedged open; now it must be kicked down. This is what your kind is good for." Now the warchief looked directly at the master apothecary, his cool eyes fixated on the pale yellow light that filled the latter's eye sockets. "You're already corpses, nearly impossible to kill. You flood the chokepoint, you open the way for the rest of the Horde to come through, fresh and eager. Rushing over a bridge of broken bodies if we have to. This is how fortifications are breached. How wars are won."

and the sylvanas' vision in page 4.

garrosh wanted to exterminate forsakens, for being forsaken, nothing more. this even threatening lydon to slaughter (aka genocide) all undercity if otherwise


-if you dont like bosnia take holodomor, where 25% died, still isnt necessary 70-80% like you are suggesting

- i dont know in english, but at least in italian a genocide is ethnic cleansing, specifically when it is reached by murdering, and in dalaran they murdered...
and it isnt racism? you are suggesting that high elf dont consider blood elf like dirty scums? i mean northern italians considered southern inferior until like 20 years ago, why elf should be different?

-btw effectively i will take personally the segregation argument, so better stop now

[Aucald]

Let's pivot away from real-world politics and examples for things such as ethnic cleansing, genocide, or the like - this only inflames passions further and derails the thread.

[Mehrunes]

I'm sorry, is this Earth book supposed to be the Azerothian treaty on war crimes?

[Kuze]

Hihi hope is strong in this one.

Nope you guys will be the bad guys. I am 100% certain with that. Blizz is totally on the way of black/whiteing the story because they want the clear line in the conflict.
They want to go back to the Warcraft story and guess what in Warcraft the Horde has been the bad guys. That is why there even is war. The Horde tried to conquer Azeroth and Sylvanas tries the same, she even calls it "conquering Kalimdor".

So nope, you will be the bad guys hands down, but if you're lucky you get at least another rebellion with Saurfang to whash your hand clean after all that Garrsoh, Garrosh ...uhm I mean Sylvanas! Sylvanas!" chanting and cheering. So at the end you can claim, once again: "Well we didn't know anything and then startet a rebellion against that evil doer!!"

But maybe the story will be different this time, maybe the story will be: "The Horde will allways be the evil faction and for that few true Hordies left, you can play your noble Orcs within the Alliance Mag'Thars. Sounds actually like something Blizz is capable of.

Bad guys is a point of view. Everyone keeps saying shes another garrosh with nothing thats been revealed from BFA or the excerpt grom Before the storm even sugessting that. She wants to expand the HORDE empire. She ensures all citizens from UC are evacuated yet supposedly she only cares about herself. I mean you can hate her for her past fine but nothing in current events supports any of the claims that shes evil or bad

[LazarusLong]

I'm sorry, is this Earth book supposed to be the Azerothian treaty on war crimes?

I'm sorry, did you actually fucking read it? the whole point of the book was to create sort of Nurnberg trial for the Horde. And not just Garrosh horde.

[Verdugo]

I'm sorry, did you actually fucking read it? the whole point of the book was to create sort of Nurnberg trial for the Horde. And not just Garrosh horde.

And it failed spectacularly, it progressed into everyone bitching about each other, some alt-timeline bullshit and the cherry on top, Celestials declaring that they already decided the outcome before it started.

I dont think there will be EVER a simmilar event.

[Mehrunes]

I'm sorry, did you actually fucking read it? the whole point of the book was to create sort of Nurnberg trial for the Horde. And not just Garrosh horde.

I did fucking read it. Not only does it not operate with the term war crimes all that much, but the trial is a joke. The prosecution brought up irrelevant nonsense like Garrosh being guilty of what Dragonmaw did in Second War, in which he did not participate, just by association and no one batted an eye. The August Celestials made their decision before the trial, rendering it moot. So on and so forth.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, did you actually fucking read it? the whole point of the book was to create sort of Nurnberg trial for the Horde. And not just Garrosh horde.

And absolutely nothing came of it. Not even the trial result. No laws were defined, no treaty was signed.

[Jastall]

I'm sorry, did you actually fucking read it? the whole point of the book was to create sort of Nurnberg trial for the Horde. And not just Garrosh horde.

Yeah, and the trial was kind of a joke given that the Celestials already reached a decision beforehand, so the entire exercise is more of an excuse to 1) have all these lore characters in one place and 2) allow Garrosh to escape with timey-whimey bullshit and lead us into WoD. I've made it clear I don't like Garrosh at all, but his trial was a sham. Would have been better to just let Thrall kill him on the spot, he deserved nothing less.

All the same, I say go back to the thread's topic. Garrosh invades too many threads as of late.

Even with Golden's tweet in mind, it's hard for me to imagine the Horde not being at least partly responsible for the burning. They're clearly moving in on Night Elf lands, and not with the intent to deliver candies. Apart from ye olde ''well it was actually Twilight infiltrators!'' or something along those lines, I'm not sure what twist there could be here.

[Deleted]

"There are"
And it is something that is possible, we have seen race swaps before.

Personally I'd say chances are 50/50 for it to happen, as I can't imagine a reason why Mag Thar orcs would follow Sylvanas or the Horde after Saurfang despiced Sylvanas actions so extremely.
But I can see many why Saurfang would join the Alliance, also if you look at the ICC raid, Saurfang was deeply thankful towards Varian after his son died and Anduin is Varians son.

Give me some "reason" for the Mag'har (not Mag Thar) to follow Anduin, or even Saurfang. Just pure nonsense. Oh, and please, enlighten me and make me see how makes it sense that Saurfang decides to let his Horde and go to the Alliance. The only reason would be bad storytelling. I mean, really bad storytelling. Still flipping with the people who believes these stories.

[MikeBogina]

Attack in Stormheim was justified in every single bit... lorewise, Azsuna happens first, in which we find out Sylvanas plans and then Anduin sends Genn, Tess and alliance player to Stormheim to secure Aegis and a secret mission to intercept Sylvanas plans (You know, enslaving Eyir and that would make her endless armies of valkyr... hell she even pacted with Helya that both Alliance and Horde had to deal with...)

Strop trying to spread this false information as canon. There is no canon order of the zones and there was no secret mission. There only report is that Sylvanas' fleet is near Stormheim and to go there aswell to get the Aegis. Genn and Rogers make it clear they plan to attack her and get revenge.

Regardless if they knew of what she wanted to get or not, they declared war on the Horde leadership in a cowardly attack and got their airship destroyed for it. Genn almost cost the world it's future for his personal grudge and there's no justification for that.

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I did fucking read it. Not only does it not operate with the term war crimes all that much, but the trial is a joke. The prosecution brought up irrelevant nonsense like Garrosh being guilty of what Dragonmaw did in Second War, in which he did not participate, just by association and no one batted an eye. The August Celestials made their decision before the trial, rendering it moot. So on and so forth.

And thus the August Celestials were never invited to ever judge anything again. xD

[Deleted]

Google "save from a ban".




Which is why no one is saying it.




I'm not trying to convince them though. I'm just exposing them and their arguments for what they are.

Man, I'm laughing so badly... clearly the guy doesn't know what to argue means nor how to do it. Totally beaten by you... he's so tilted.

[Deleted]

Strop trying to spread this false information as canon. There is no canon order of the zones and there was no secret mission. There only report is that Sylvanas' fleet is near Stormheim and to go there aswell to get the Aegis. Genn and Rogers make it clear they plan to attack her and get revenge.

Regardless if they knew of what she wanted to get or not, they declared war on the Horde leadership in a cowardly attack and got their airship destroyed for it. Genn almost cost the world it's future for his personal grudge and there's no justification for that.

It is not false information...

In Legion early developement, when zone scaling wasn't a thing, the story progression was supposed to be:

Azsuna > Val'sharah > Stormheim > Highmountain

[LazarusLong]

And absolutely nothing came of it. Not even the trial result. No laws were defined, no treaty was signed.

Yeah and? The argument was that Azeroth don't have concept of war crimes, but it clearly has now. In our world it took almost 50 years from Hague to Geneva convention and Nuremberg trials for the concept to actually evolve into something.

[Deleted]

Yeah and? The argument was that Azeroth don't have concept of war crimes, but it clearly has now. In our world it took almost 50 years from Hague to Geneva convention and Nuremberg trials for the concept to actually evolve into something.

Except they don't have. Everyone wanted Garrosh's death and the August Celestials trolled everyone into a "it's everyone's fault, kek".

They ditched it completely with Thrall's "Garrosh escaped? Hold my beer!".

[Deleted]

Any clues yet to where Malfurion is in all this?

This guy has the power of a god but has been useless since Warcraft 3.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Any clues yet to where Malfurion is in all this?

This guy has the power of a god but has been useless since Warcraft 3.

“Tyrande I need you”

[Mehrunes]

It is not false information...

In Legion early developement, when zone scaling wasn't a thing, the story progression was supposed to be:

Azsuna > Val'sharah > Stormheim > Highmountain

"Was supposed to be"? But isn't on live version? Because it was scrapped? No way. Besides, you failed to address the other arguments.

Yeah and? The argument was that Azeroth don't have concept of war crimes, but it clearly has now. In our world it took almost 50 years from Hague to Geneva convention and Nuremberg trials for the concept to actually evolve into something.

Given how nothing came out of the trial, look at all them established concepts.