Tinker Class Concept 2018 (long)

[Teriz]

Also, on the 4th spec.

What was the idea?

You had losts of things, nothing really working with one another and the general feeling is "Another Hunter"

Because you have shot spells and the image of a Engineer with a Mech pet.

Eh, Quick Shot builds Voltage which can be used to construct more advanced devices, or to equip the Wrenchcalibur which greatly empowers you. How is that like Hunters? Because they're both ranged?

And why do you keep the turrets mechanic in all specs?

I removed Turrets from the Assault spec awhile ago.

Make a single spec based on turrets and explore the concept or actually use them effectly in all of them.

Mechanic is the turret spec. Every other spec just uses it for support, while the Assault spec doesn't use them at all.

It feels like a MM Hunter were your pet doesn't do anything for you and you actually have a talent to ditch him off.While this time you can't trade the turrets for more damage.

The Turrets give you passive buffs via Mechano-Lord, and the Turrets build Voltage.

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Considering you also thought "unlikely" that demon hunters ever saw the light of day, I find the idea of you finding this idea unlikely as well a good thing.

The idea of World of Warcraft turning into Mechwarrior? Yeah I find it quite unlikely.

Then shut up.

I'm not talking, I'm typing.

Then prove it.

Anyone can read this thread and see exactly what you were talking about. There's nothing for me to prove.

I'm not backing off. I'm standing right here and claiming you're making another bullshit accusation. Prove it or back off.

So you're going to say that you never implied that the use of mechs in Azeroth was widespread via the professions and item drops? Seriously?

Doesn't stop any other races from also piloting mechs.

I'm sure in about 10 posts you're going to deny saying this as well.

I absolutely love this:
Teriz: "All priest racial abilities were removed!"
Me: "Desperate prayer still exist."
Teriz: "Irrelevant!"

Yes, all racial abilities were removed from the individual races. Some were retained and placed in the general Priest class, but races no longer had unique Priest abilities. Hence why your quote was irrelevant.

I wish I was shocked that you required me to break that down for you.

[Ielenia]

The idea of World of Warcraft turning into Mechwarrior? Yeah I find it quite unlikely.

This is highly ironic and incredibly amusing coming from the guy who wants a mech-piloting class added into the game.

Anyone can read this thread and see exactly what you were talking about. There's nothing for me to prove.

So you're admitting you can't back up your accusations? Seriously, Teriz, I've seen you provide obscure evidence when it suits you, as shown when you pointed out Akama, of all people, existed in Warcraft III, you refusing to back up your claims now show that you have nothing. You're not making yourself look better, you're making yourself look like a fool.

So you're going to say that you never implied that the use of mechs in Azeroth was widespread via the professions and item drops? Seriously?

I never said it was widespread use. This is, again, one of your strawman arguments. If you think I did made that claim, feel free to quote me where I said that. I don't think you will, though.

I'm sure in about 10 posts you're going to deny saying this as well.

If you think I will, then be sure to bookmark this, so when I demand to see evidence, you don't go around saying "well, I don't have to show it to you, everyone can go look for it if they want."

Yes, all racial abilities were removed from the individual races. Some were retained and placed in the general Priest class, but races no longer had unique Priest abilities. Hence why your quote was irrelevant.

I wish I was shocked that you required me to break that down for you.

Ah, so now you're moving goalposts? First it was "racial spells were removed", but now the goalposts were moved to "not all racial spells weren't removed, most were baked into baseline abilities for the class".

I wish I was shocked that you moved goalposts.

[Teriz]

This is highly ironic and incredibly amusing coming from the guy who wants a mech-piloting class added into the game.

Based on actual lore of the game itself, not make-believe head-canon like you're pushing. Sad thing is when your head-canon is proven absurd, you don't even take ownership of your absurdity.

Par for the course I suppose...

[Ielenia]

Based on actual lore of the game itself,

It's also part of the lore that mechs are not that hard to be used by anyone.

not make-believe head-canon like you're pushing.

The only "make-believe" being pushed here are your bullshit strawman arguments.

Sad thing is when your head-canon is proven absurd, you don't even take ownership of your absurdity.

The projection is great with this one...

[Teriz]

It's also part of the lore that mechs are not that hard to be used by anyone.

Which is why the only non-Goblin/Gnome lore characters who have ever used one outside of our character is an Iron Horde Orc, and Lightforged Draenei on Argus. Both occurrences of which took place on alien worlds.

On Azeroth, its just the Goblins and Gnomes.

Yeah, that sounds super easy....

The only "make-believe" being pushed here are your bullshit strawman arguments.


The projection is great with this one...

Oh the irony....

[Ielenia]

Which is why the only non-Goblin/Gnome lore characters who have ever used one outside of our character is an Iron Horde Orc, and Lightforged Draenei on Argus. Both occurrences of which took place on alien worlds.

I have yet to see the relevance. Unless you're going to claim that those races somehow lose their ability to ride those mechs when they arrive on Azeroth...?

[Rhamses]

I like the Mechanic spec Teriz. I REALLY like the construction ability. That's a pretty inventive way of applying actual "tinkering" to the class.

One minor criticism: I would make the wrench abilities melee. I think that would be a better use for a weapon like that, and it would also mix up the gameplay.

Keep up the good work and ignore the haters.

[Teriz]

I have yet to see the relevance. Unless you're going to claim that those races somehow lose their ability to ride those mechs when they arrive on Azeroth...?

The relevance being that clearly on Azeroth, only the Goblins and Gnomes are riding mechs. That makes your notion of it being "easy" false,

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I like the Mechanic spec Teriz. I REALLY like the construction ability. That's a pretty inventive way of applying actual "tinkering" to the class.

One minor criticism: I would make the wrench abilities melee. I think that would be a better use for a weapon like that, and it would also mix up the gameplay.

Keep up the good work and ignore the haters.

I've considered that actually. I may mull over that for a few days and make a decision over the weekend. I wanted to keep the spec ranged because so many people wanted a ranged spec, but I guess a ranged class with a melee cooldown wouldn't be too bad.

Decisions decisions....

[Ielenia]

The relevance being that clearly on Azeroth, only the Goblins and Gnomes are riding mechs. That makes your notion of it being "easy" false,

That doesn't follow. We have other races that can ride mechs, and those races exist on Azeroth. Pointing out we only see them doing so in other worlds is meaningless because those are the exact same race. Unless you're claiming that those races somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when arriving on Azeroth (which is a stupid thing to claim, to begin with), you saying "they only do it on other worlds" is completely pointless.

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Keep up the good work and ignore the haters.

Really? "Haters"? If you're calling us "haters", would I be correct to assume you agree with Teriz' arguments, such as how orcs and draenei lose their ability to pilot mechs when they arrive on Azeroth?

[Teriz]

That doesn't follow. We have other races that can ride mechs, and those races exist on Azeroth. Pointing out we only see them doing so in other worlds is meaningless because those are the exact same race. Unless you're claiming that those races somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when arriving on Azeroth (which is a stupid thing to claim, to begin with), you saying "they only do it on other worlds" is completely pointless.

No, you have a single Iron Horde Orc piloting a mech in a raid in HFC. Once special orc piloting a mech in HFC makes her an anomaly, not a trend.

As for the Lightforged Draenei and their Warframes, if they start popping up on Azeroth, you'll have an argument. Let me know when that happens.

[Rhamses]

Really? "Haters"? If you're calling us "haters", would I be correct to assume you agree with Teriz' arguments, such as how orcs and draenei lose their ability to pilot mechs when they arrive on Azeroth?

I agree with him in that you can't base a class' racial options off of a Quest and a Raid Boss.

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I've considered that actually. I may mull over that for a few days and make a decision over the weekend. I wanted to keep the spec ranged because so many people wanted a ranged spec, but I guess a ranged class with a melee cooldown wouldn't be too bad.

Decisions decisions....

You should make it melee. The concept of going from physical ranged to "magical" (I know it's not magic) melee seems really unique. It'll also give the spec a "steam knight" flair.

[bionics]

Great job. I've always thought a Tinker class could be fun if implemented properly and this is about as close to how I've had it idealized in my head as any I've seen. This one definitely evokes those same Foe Reaper 4000 boss fight vibes from Deadmines and for that I commend you.

Is the artwork your own? Digging the in-game mech designs, pilot concept art and icon choice.

[Ielenia]

I agree with him in that you can't base a class' racial options off of a Quest and a Raid Boss.

We have many Lightforged Warframes being used in the first third of the Antorus raid, and those aren't being piloted by the player. And again, what's the problem with pointing at said raid boss and showing that other races can also pilot an advanced mech?

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No, you have a single Iron Horde Orc piloting a mech in a raid in HFC. Once special orc piloting a mech in HFC makes her an anomaly, not a trend.

Where's the Blizzard quote or official document stating that Siegemaster Mar'tak is some kind of "special and/or unique orc" in any way? Because if it is for her "siegemaster" title, there are several orcs with that title.

As for the Lightforged Draenei and their Warframes, if they start popping up on Azeroth, you'll have an argument. Let me know when that happens.

You have yet to demonstrate any relevance for that comment. Are you implying the Lightforged Draenei somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when they arrive on Azeroth?

[Teriz]

You should make it melee. The concept of going from physical ranged to "magical" (I know it's not magic) melee seems really unique. It'll also give the spec a "steam knight" flair.

Alright you've convinced me! I made Wrenchcalibur a melee mini-system. I also did a few tweaks on the spells and added some Mekkatorque artwork. Hope you like it. Thanks for the feedback.

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Great job. I've always thought a Tinker class could be fun if implemented properly and this is about as close to how I've had it idealized in my head as any I've seen. This one definitely evokes those same Foe Reaper 4000 boss fight vibes from Deadmines and for that I commend you.

Thank you! This is really a culmination of years of discussion and various concepts floating around in my head. Decided to finally put them down.

Is the artwork your own? Digging the in-game mech designs, pilot concept art and icon choice.

The majority of the artwork comes from around the web. The pilot concept artist's name and website is on the pictures themselves. I commissioned the medic artwork from an artist on Deviantart. Icons mainly come from Wowhead, with a few coming from WC3 website and HotS. I created the Wrenchcalibur icon myself.

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Where's the Blizzard quote or official document stating that Siegemaster Mar'tak is some kind of "special and/or unique orc" in any way? Because if it is for her "siegemaster" title, there are several orcs with that title.

The fact that she's the only Orc piloting a mech in the history of WoW, and that there hasn't been an Orc to do it since makes her very special and very unique. Again, Blizzard isn't going to put out an official document to state the obvious.

You have yet to demonstrate any relevance for that comment. Are you implying the Lightforged Draenei somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when they arrive on Azeroth?

That would be the implication, since we don't see them on Azeroth utilizing that tech. Again, if they start having Lightforged Warframes on Azeroth in BfA and beyond, you'll have an argument.

I must stress again that a single Orc from another timeline, and Draenei who have been on an advanced world for several millennia piloting mecha doesn't give the indication that piloting a mech is common among non-Goblins/Gnomes or easy to do.

[Ielenia]

The fact that she's the only Orc piloting a mech in the history of WoW, and that there hasn't been an Orc to do it since makes her very special and very unique.

Or perhaps building that mech was quite costly and/or took quite some time to build, too. You know, not everything is a dichotomy, Teriz.

Again, Blizzard isn't going to put out an official document to state the obvious.

So ironic...

That would be the implication, since we don't see them on Azeroth utilizing that tech.

Teriz, stop giving me so much meme material for sigs. Our sigs can only be so long. You are actually saying Lightforged Draenei lose their ability to pilot a mech when arriving on Azeroth.

I must stress again that a single Orc from another timeline,

And I must stress that's irrelevant. It makes no sense that orcs, nor we have any indication would lose their abilities to pilot mechs when coming to Azeroth.

and Draenei who have been on an advanced world for several millennia piloting mecha

And I must stress that's irrelevant. It makes no sense, nor we have any indication that draenei would lose their abilities to pilot mechs when coming to Azeroth.

doesn't give the indication that piloting a mech is common among non-Goblins/Gnomes or easy to do.

At the very least, it shows it's not exclusive to gnomes and goblins.

[Toxuvox]

Personally, I don't think we actually need any more Classes. Both Monk and DH felt (and still feel) superfluous, so something like a tinker, bard, or necromancer class all feel either too shallow, or simply unnecessary at this point in the game. Perhaps if they'd been in from the start, or introduced with TBC/WotLK. At this point they'd probably be fairly well polished. Specifically on the topic of Tinker, I agree with some of the other responders.....I've never really liked the steampunk type tech elements outside of the Titan type content (for Titans only....that should be out of reach for us as players)...just feels aesthetically wrong to me, so a tinker class would be a game breaker for me. Just my thoughts/opinions.

[Teriz]

Or perhaps building that mech was quite costly and/or took quite some time to build, too. You know, not everything is a dichotomy, Teriz.

Except there were Iron Shredders throughout the Iron Horde. None of them were piloted by Orcs.

Teriz, stop giving me so much meme material for sigs. Our sigs can only be so long. You are actually saying Lightforged Draenei lose their ability to pilot a mech when arriving on Azeroth.

Until otherwise indicated, that would be the indication.

And I must stress that's irrelevant. It makes no sense that orcs, nor we have any indication would lose their abilities to pilot mechs when coming to Azeroth.

Except they don't pilot mechs on Draenor either. Only Mar'tak ever piloted a mech, and she's dead.

And I must stress that's irrelevant. It makes no sense, nor we have any indication that draenei would lose their abilities to pilot mechs when coming to Azeroth.

The indication is that they're not piloting them on Azeroth.

At the very least, it shows it's not exclusive to gnomes and goblins.

It is on Azeroth.

[Ielenia]

Except there were Iron Shredders throughout the Iron Horde. None of them were piloted by Orcs.

And? We have one. That's more than enough evidence that they can.

Until otherwise indicated, that would be the indication.

It's baffling how you can't see the absurdity of such a claim.

Except they don't pilot mechs on Draenor either. Only Mar'tak ever piloted a mech, and she's dead.

Newsflash: Mar'tak was an orc.

It is on Azeroth.

Irrelevant. And your claim that orcs and lightforged draenei somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when arriving on Azeroth is asinine, and that's putting it lightly.

[Teriz]

And? We have one. That's more than enough evidence that they can.

I'm afraid you need more than one special Orc piloting a special mech to make that claim.

Irrelevant. And your claim that orcs and lightforged draenei somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when arriving on Azeroth is asinine, and that's putting it lightly.

Again, let me know when you find Orcs and Draenei piloting mechs on Azeroth. Until then you got nothing.

[Ielenia]

I'm afraid you need more than one special Orc piloting a special mech to make that claim.

No, we don't. We just need one, and we got that one. It's up to you to disqualify that orc. And saying "she's the only one" is meaningless.

Again, let me know when you find Orcs and Draenei piloting mechs on Azeroth. Until then you got nothing.

I'm sure you'll do some inhumanly mental gymnastics in an attempt to invalidate those too. Again, them doing it in other worlds is irrelevant.