Mythic Argus questions.

[Dracodraco]

One way to counter it is speed boosts. You only get 3x soulblight casts in P1, so you only need 3x wind rush/stampedings to accomplish this. Usually #1 is the easiest to do without a speed boost if you can only handle 2 boosts, as there's barely any overlap.

[Deleted]

Hi, just had ½ nights tries on the boss, and I have 2 questions.

Are warriors bad as the third tank, or could they work? (Currently the third can will be either a monk, DK or warrior)

We loose people to soulblight + tortured rage, how do you deal with this (besides personals?). Strong healing cds on Tortured rage 3,5 and 7 (seems to be the overlapping ones).

[Arcanines]

Hi, just had ½ nights tries on the boss, and I have 2 questions.

Are warriors bad as the third tank, or could they work? (Currently the third can will be either a monk, DK or warrior)

We loose people to soulblight + tortured rage, how do you deal with this (besides personals?). Strong healing cds on Tortured rage 3,5 and 7 (seems to be the overlapping ones).

The third tanks main job is purely for the last phase, and a bit of tanking in p1/p2 like 2 scytches depending on the strat you're going with. It's been killed with all tanks. Just go with whatever gives you the highest raid dps or whichever wants to 3rd tank the most.. None of the 3 offer raid utility like stamp roar. I think we have our 3rd tank until last phase take like 2 scytches because it lines up better with soulbombs for our DH and bear. As we're suicide the big bombs and having the raid stack on tank.

[Deleted]

Hi, just had ½ nights tries on the boss, and I have 2 questions.

Are warriors bad as the third tank, or could they work? (Currently the third can will be either a monk, DK or warrior)

We loose people to soulblight + tortured rage, how do you deal with this (besides personals?). Strong healing cds on Tortured rage 3,5 and 7 (seems to be the overlapping ones).

Are Monk, DK and Warrior the 3 Tanks (both main tanks included) or are These exclusive Options for the 3rd Tank?

Probably Monk is best just of how Stagger works, esp. when you have to soak 3 or 4 Orbs very fast. But if he is a Main Tank he should take the boss.
I did the 3rd Tank job as DK and just specced full turtle with Spectral Deflection and Rune Tap and had no Problems at all. I used Aggramars Stride to collect them faster. Because Boss uptime is very low for the 3rd tank in p3. Pretty much every Tank can handle it good enough, mobility helps.

But you should choose your tank Setup based on the imho more important fact that you need to have two tanks who can consistenly take 4 Scythes in p3 and die on the 5th. Random Tank deaths on earlier Scythes can ruin a lot of pulls esp after the tree is gone.

[Deleted]

Are Monk, DK and Warrior the 3 Tanks (both main tanks included) or are These exclusive Options for the 3rd Tank?

Probably Monk is best just of how Stagger works, esp. when you have to soak 3 or 4 Orbs very fast. I did it as DK and just specced full turtle with Spectral Deflection and Rune Tap and had no Problems at all. I used Aggramars Stride to collect them faster. Pretty much every Tank can handle it, mobility helps.

But you should choose your tank Setup based on the imho more important fact that you need to have two tanks who can consistenly take 4 Scythes in p3 and die on the 5th. Random Tank deaths on earlier Scythes can ruin a lot of pulls.

The third tank. Our tanks which is tanking the boss is going to be a Prot pala and a Brewmaster, which both reliably should be able to take 4 scythes.

- - - Updated - - -

The third tanks main job is purely for the last phase, and a bit of tanking in p1/p2 like 2 scytches depending on the strat you're going with. It's been killed with all tanks. Just go with whatever gives you the highest raid dps or whichever wants to 3rd tank the most.. None of the 3 offer raid utility like stamp roar. I think we have our 3rd tank until last phase take like 2 scytches because it lines up better with soulbombs for our DH and bear. As we're suicide the big bombs and having the raid stack on tank.

I would think that regardless of class, 2 scythes seems pretty doable. The reason why I am considering the warrior tank, is that would give us a decent dps boost!

[Deleted]

The third tank. Our tanks which is tanking the boss is going to be a Prot pala and a Brewmaster, which both reliably should be able to take 4 scythes.

Yeah Prot and BrM are good. I´d probably take BrM as 3rd Tank then. Great mobility and Stagger makes soaking Orbs easy.

But depending on how many Shamans /w Speed Totem you can bring, you might want to consinder looking for someone doing it as Guardian. Because for the Soulblight/Cone Combo in Phase1 Group wide Speed buffs are very nice.

[Retributive]

Yeah Prot and BrM are good. I´d probably take BrM as 3rd Tank then. Great mobility and Stagger makes soaking Orbs easy.

But depending on how many Shamans /w Speed Totem you can bring, you might want to consinder looking for someone doing it as Guardian. Because for the Soulblight/Cone Combo in Phase1 Group wide Speed buffs are very nice.

Sorry to pile on the question.

DK+Pally+War/Druid as the 3 tanks.

Think a 10 ilvl bump is worth bringing the warrior over stampede? 2 Shaman, 0 Roar comp without

[Deleted]

Yeah Prot and BrM are good. I´d probably take BrM as 3rd Tank then. Great mobility and Stagger makes soaking Orbs easy.

But depending on how many Shamans /w Speed Totem you can bring, you might want to consinder looking for someone doing it as Guardian. Because for the Soulblight/Cone Combo in Phase1 Group wide Speed buffs are very nice.

Will have atleast 2 shamans, using Windrush on 2nd and 3rd set of Soulblights - seems like the hardest.

[Missyl]

wrong post

[Spotnick]

I have a question about Argus, despite having a 0% wipe on him, we seems to be unable to go steadily to the 4th and 5th orbs and I'm trying to see if anyone had an idea. We are doing the suicide on the 2nd chains, but it seems we have a really hard time with the 3rd chains and the spread before it, many people are getting extra stacks they shouldn't, and quite clearly asking people to not get extra stacks of rage/fear is a hard commitment.

Basically what we do is after the edge stacking, we do a roar and everybody spread, we ask the people who get the rage to not move but don't block the way of people with the fear so they can go stack fast. But there is always a few getting extra stacks of fear or a stack of rage.. and for some reason, it seems the game always target them to get the chains right away.

And yes, what happens is we end up losing the person with the 2nd chain because it's unhealable with 3 stacks of stuff + tormented rage and chain debuff, which leads to a wipe. We decided to put more healing cooldowns but this might just push the problem forward.

Don't get me wrong, we did have pulls where this was not an issue which lead to almost a kill, but this is in no way stable, and which is why we have so many wipes at that spot in the fight, and I would like to have tips before we have horrible farm because we didn't fix this and rely too much on good rng.

I know many suicide the 3rd chains, I can see the benefit has you can use healing CD twice, but after 300+ wipes I have a feeling we won't change that, some people said the roar might not be a good idea since people with fear will have a speed boost and run over people... do you have designated spread spots or do people actually care of going to help somebody with a fear? Do you use all your cooldowns on chain targets instead of tanks, do you designated healers for chains and some for the people with too many stacks? Seems if we aoe heal too much we will lose a chain target, but it also seems we need 2 direct heals on the chain target to keep alive at times.

In other words, is there a way to make this moment more stable and not rely on good rng other than expecting people to not getting extra stacks because obviously that seems impossible at this point and it's frustrating to wipe after 10 minutes for the same reason.

Thanks.

[Truefire]

I have a question about Argus, despite having a 0% wipe on him, we seems to be unable to go steadily to the 4th and 5th orbs and I'm trying to see if anyone had an idea. We are doing the suicide on the 2nd chains, but it seems we have a really hard time with the 3rd chains and the spread before it, many people are getting extra stacks they shouldn't, and quite clearly asking people to not get extra stacks of rage/fear is a hard commitment.

Basically what we do is after the edge stacking, we do a roar and everybody spread, we ask the people who get the rage to not move but don't block the way of people with the fear so they can go stack fast. But there is always a few getting extra stacks of fear or a stack of rage.. and for some reason, it seems the game always target them to get the chains right away.

And yes, what happens is we end up losing the person with the 2nd chain because it's unhealable with 3 stacks of stuff + tormented rage and chain debuff, which leads to a wipe. We decided to put more healing cooldowns but this might just push the problem forward.

Don't get me wrong, we did have pulls where this was not an issue which lead to almost a kill, but this is in no way stable, and which is why we have so many wipes at that spot in the fight, and I would like to have tips before we have horrible farm because we didn't fix this and rely too much on good rng.

I know many suicide the 3rd chains, I can see the benefit has you can use healing CD twice, but after 300+ wipes I have a feeling we won't change that, some people said the roar might not be a good idea since people with fear will have a speed boost and run over people... do you have designated spread spots or do people actually care of going to help somebody with a fear? Do you use all your cooldowns on chain targets instead of tanks, do you designated healers for chains and some for the people with too many stacks? Seems if we aoe heal too much we will lose a chain target, but it also seems we need 2 direct heals on the chain target to keep alive at times.

In other words, is there a way to make this moment more stable and not rely on good rng other than expecting people to not getting extra stacks because obviously that seems impossible at this point and it's frustrating to wipe after 10 minutes for the same reason.

Thanks.

We had this exact same issue and this is how we addressed it.

First, have your raid save their personals for 3rd set of chains. Have the person who has the second chain pop their personal for when the first chain is broken. Also using an external on the 2nd chain helps too, a bark/cocoon/sac.

If you have a warrior/shaman, use commanding on the 5th tortured rage and link on the 6th tortured rage.
Our healing comp was H pally, h priest, druid, shaman and on the 3rd set of chains specifically, we used tranq for the first chain break on the 3rd set. We used hymn for the second chain break (we let this chain naturally expire). We also used healing tide to stabilize the raid between the 5th and 6th tortured rage.

Now the biggest thing, look through logs and filter chain healing by your healers. All your healers should be single target healing chains while letting the aoe healing cooldowns carry raid healing. Make sure each of them is hard casting into chains and just not relying on AoE healing to keep them up. Once we addressed this, a kill came pretty shortly after. Chain healing on the 3rd and 4th set of chains is by far the hardest part of the fight and healers need to know how to prioritize their healing.

Also for the 4th set of chains, if you have a resto shaman, have them save their ascendance/AG for this set. Since this is around the time where you get lust back, shamans can almost solo carry heal this part of the fight. We used our shaman cds + pally AM for 4th set and that was enough with the other healers focusing single target healing on chains.


Edit: I looked through the last 2 nights of your guild's logs, you have two healers definitely picking up the slack for the other 2 on chain healing. One big thing I found is that your pally is not beaconing the chains. He should swap beacon to both chain targets and just target heal the tanks.

Most recent night:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e%24false%2464

Second most recent night:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ulty=5&wipes=1

Just so you can compare, this was my guild's last night of pulls and also our kill:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...4&type=healing

[Spotnick]

Thank you for the reply I'll look into that.

[Truefire]

Thank you for the reply I'll look into that.

I looked through how your guild does healing cooldowns for chains and how you break them and this might be too much to change but just a possibility to keep in mind.

Your current CD setup:

Druid tree + tranq before first chains to just use multiple times (Not necessary)

First chain (one at a time):
1.1 Pally Avenging wrath + link
1.2 Shaman ascendance

Second chain:
Sucide

Third chain (one at a time):
3.1 Pally avenging wrath delayed a few seconds after chains + AM
3.2 Nothing?

Fourth chain (double pop):
Tree + Tide + Tranq + revival + link

Then your shaman's ascendance comes back up after the 4th chain healing is over and heals the tortured rages.

My biggest issue with your cd setup is that you are spending way too much on the 4th chain trying to double pop them and therefore not having enough cds to survive the 3rd chains. In my opinion, the 3rd chain and 4th chain are both equally difficult parts of the fight and need very similar attention to survive cleanly.


My reccomendation for chains + healing cds:
Chain 1 (Double pop):
Druid tree 10s before chains (This is so it comes up before chain 4) + Avenging wrath + Shaman ascendance/ag

Chain 1 is by far the easiest of the chains and it makes sense to double pop here so you can get your healing cooldowns on cd asap.

Chain 2:
Suicide

Chain 3 (pop one at a time, first immediately, let second expire):
3.1 Tranq
3.2 Revival + Avenging Wrath(this can be saved for 4th set of chains if needed)
Tortured Rage 5/6: Healing tide + Spirit link (Use this on either tortured rage where it's needed)
Tortured Rage 5/6 happens stacked with the second chain of the 3rd set so basically you would be stacking revival + tide + link to ensure your raid survives the combo.

Chain 4 (pop one at a time, first immediately, let second expire):
4.1 Druid Tree + Velens
4.2 Shaman ascendance/ag
Tortured Rage 7/8: Pally AM (Use to top off raid before either tortured rage where needed)

Chain 5:
Spam heal chains and win

[Rec73]

Truefire would you mind taking a look at our logs as well? We have the same issue as Spotnick.

warcraftlogs .com/reports/3NcPdADgyk67zMVp#fight=24 (I can't post links)

This was our best pull. We have tried breaking 2 at the same time, but have gotten the furthest with just 1-1. We also suicide on the 2nd chains, but have a lot of issues with keeping people topped through the overlap of having Shattered Bond dot+Tortured Rage casts. Thankfully the CDs you laid out for Spotnick is the same comp as ours so I will look into that.

[Truefire]

Truefire would you mind taking a look at our logs as well? We have the same issue as Spotnick.

warcraftlogs .com/reports/3NcPdADgyk67zMVp#fight=24 (I can't post links)

This was our best pull. We have tried breaking 2 at the same time, but have gotten the furthest with just 1-1. We also suicide on the 2nd chains, but have a lot of issues with keeping people topped through the overlap of having Shattered Bond dot+Tortured Rage casts. Thankfully the CDs you laid out for Spotnick is the same comp as ours so I will look into that.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e%24false%2464
Same issues with chains, you guys have 2 healers healing them while the other two are not putting much into them.

Your holy pally needs to beacon the chains for the 3rd/4th/5th set. Your shaman is not really healing them at all. He should be spamming healing surges into those chains. I would also recommend for your druid to cenarion ward + lifebloom one chain with each. He is sporadically doing that but he should just double hot and put those up instantly on the chains as they come out.

As far as raid cds go, I would recommend the same as I suggested above.

[Rec73]

Thanks for your comments Truefire. Do you have any suggestions DPS wise? I think we have too much dps devoted to the orbs which we will be looking to change tonight. We also move Argus out of cleave range from the module as soon as it spawns so we lose some there as well. Is there any positioning or dps assignments (modules vs argus) that you found helped with uptime/dps?

[Truefire]

Thanks for your comments Truefire. Do you have any suggestions DPS wise? I think we have too much dps devoted to the orbs which we will be looking to change tonight. We also move Argus out of cleave range from the module as soon as it spawns so we lose some there as well. Is there any positioning or dps assignments (modules vs argus) that you found helped with uptime/dps?

I would make sure to spawn modules right under the boss and not move the boss until about 30-40% left on the module. I don't think you should have people swap off the modules because space ends up being an issue if they die too slow at all. The amount of damage lost by swapping to them is minimal in the long run. If everyone is alive, the dps should fall into place.

Also, one of more suggestion. I'm not sure if this is already happening properly but you need to make sure your tanks are dying on the 5th scythe. If your tank survives the scythe and then dies to something else, you still get the 5 orbs from that scythe. If your tank dies to the scythe, no orbs spawn. This is critical to ensure you never have any 5 orb spawns which limit your space even more than it needs to be.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post this, but this was our kill:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232517879

[Rec73]

Thank you Truefire so much for those cooldowns. We killed it tonight on our last pull and the cooldown planning was absolutely excellent.

[Spotnick]

Same here, thanks @Truefire the boss died and that CD order worked pretty well.

[Truefire]

Happy to help both of you, congrats on the kills!