1. #861
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Ciderland, arrgh.
    Posts
    13,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    If it was a hand gun, the legal age is 21
    That appears to only be to get a license to carry a hand gun not purchase one.

  2. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I think it is reasonable to feel emotional about wanting the right to defend yourself using a Constitutional right.

    My wife had a cousin who broke into a guy's apartment who was dating his daughter and attacked him with a knife. The guy shot him and killed him. Was ruled self defense. What could have happened if he had no firearm? When things happen to someone you are emotional about or love, then you can understand some principles better. The principle here is the right to use a tool very effective for self defense.
    Something very similar happened to my wife, guy high on drugs broken in through a front window and was armed with a knife while my wife was home, fortunately she was lucky and got out before he got her and flagged down a cop chasing the guy, but if she had been in a different area in the house things could have gone a lot worse.

    I truly don't mind a sensible, law abiding mentally healthy person owning a gun, but ugh it's out of control right now, something has to give because the number of shootings since the turn of the year are just insanity.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    The NRA ( which I am not a member of ) goal is to protect the Second Amendment. Which is understandable as the AARP is to help protect the retired citizens.

    I have no issues with tax on them. They already have some taxes now. Sale taxes. But if you get to the point the poor can not exercise a Constitutional right, then that is a serous issue. I think it might fail the Supreme Court's inspection.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You may feel it is. But millions here do not and thankfully, the Supreme Court agrees it is not. Which their opinion matters more than anything else.
    If you want to keep your guns you will be able to but you are going to be giving up a lot of freedoms for it, the US gov is not concerned with mental health which is the main seed of all this that could easily be fixed. You all will be surveyed, they will be able to see everything you do at all times in far scarier ways than they do now, every US citizen will be on terrorist watch and be considered a potential terrorist because they will have the ability to have lethal weapons and create lethal weapons. You just wait shit is going to get a whole lot scarier for you guys that want to keep that right, but the government knows you want to keep it and that is what they are betting on, and you know what they are winning that bet.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  4. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by ayrton2388 View Post
    I truly believe you, i know if the government tried to take away people's guns, that would create a mess. But it could be done gradually...
    I mean, what if no one could buy guns anymore? They could keep their old ones, but only 1 gun. And maybe just let this work in ... i don't know, small towns, where people own farms.

    I mean, there's no way you need a shotgun if you live in a 10-story high apartment block in Brooklyn.
    I live in Rural MN and Have 8 guns currently, I am saving up to buy a New AR for Coyote, Fox, and Prairie Dog Hunting. I have 6 Shot Guns a .22 rifle and a .223 Rifle all are used for Hunting and Clay Pigeon shooting. 4 of the Guns have been passed down in my family from my Great Grandfather I shoot them all, not all of them regularly. I have one In each Out building for varmint and critter control we have a very bad Coyote problem around us, so much so that there is no season or limit to how many you can shoot. Also have had a few Rabid coons that I have shot in the past few years. The .22 never gets used as we cannot use Rifles for Deer hunting where I live in MN and its not nearly powerful enough to land the 300-600 Yd shots that I love hitting Prairie Dogs and Coyotes at. So I basically only use my 12 Gauge that I got from my Dad for Clay shooting and varmint control on the yard, and my .223 Rifle for hunting.

    How do you propose that someone comes into my Home and takes away something that has been a part of my family for over 100 years in the case of one of my shot guns? This is the issue I see with it, there is no reason to have anything other than a Handgun when you live in a large city. Out here in the sticks where we actually use our guns as tools I just don't see how you can regulate them more. I am all for stricter laws on purchasing guns, but the whole "Get rid of all guns" thing is just not realistic.

  5. #865
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I think it is reasonable to feel emotional about wanting the right to defend yourself using a Constitutional right.

    My wife had a cousin who broke into a guy's apartment who was dating his daughter and attacked him with a knife. The guy shot him and killed him. Was ruled self defense. What could have happened if he had no firearm? When things happen to someone you are emotional about or love, then you can understand some principles better. The principle here is the right to use a tool very effective for self defense.
    You could also secure your home better, people are fucking stupid when it comes to making their homes safe and leave doors and windows unlocked and shit, or not having proper locks.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  6. #866
    Brewmaster -Nurot's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    1,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    My wife had a cousin who broke into a guy's apartment who was dating his daughter and attacked him with a knife. The guy shot him and killed him. Was ruled self defense. What could have happened if he had no firearm? When things happen to someone you are emotional about or love, then you can understand some principles better. The principle here is the right to use a tool very effective for self defense.
    So, it's going to take the majority of Americans having lost a loved one in a mass shooting to have a productive conversation where people understand some principles better? The principle being common sense gun legislation is not a proverbial boogeyman, and might actually do some good.

    As for the, no firearm argument, I know very few (personally none) Americans who are saying responsible gun owners shouldn't be allowed to own reasonable firearms. If anyone needs an AR-15 with a high-capacity magazine to defend themselves, then they probably need some different friends.
    Last edited by -Nurot; 2018-02-15 at 02:41 PM.

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    While I agree some gun control is in order, this kid was too young to purchase a fire arm, so legally purchasing a gun and going through all the safety protocols would have obviously done nothing. What we have here is a serious issue with our current culture in the US, where if you feel slighted in ANYWAY the obvious answer for you is to either get in a huge fight for the internet to enjoy, or try to get famous and go on a killing rampage with a gun, car, bomb, bat, airplane, you name it.
    As someone already said, he was not too young. But while what you say is an important cultural problem, there is another in this context. US culture, especially that aimed at young people, still glorifies guns, often also vigilantism. Guns are pretty much the #1 problem solving tool presented by the entertainment industry, instead of being presented as a last resort that has to be used responsibly. It is not just the lax gun laws in which the US differs from other countries. Guns are a symbol of freedom, of something that makes the powerless powerful. Thus, it is only natural that those who feel oppressed, confined, weak see them as ways out of there issues, while other revel in the power they give them.
    The US needs not necessarily stricter gun laws, although those might help, but a different attitude towards them. But that is something that is incredibly hard to facilitate. As long as that does not happen, no amount of gun regulation will truly work.

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by Antius View Post
    The why should be more important than the how. A person that wants to kill will kill, regardless of gun regulation. We need to get to the root of the problem as to why these kids are doing what they're doing. But as per usual that will be swept aside to make room for each sides agenda.
    I agree and disagree with your point.
    The pro gun side thinks or will think this is not so much a gun issue as it is a health one, a culture issue and many other issues rolled into a bigger lump.
    Going on the assumptions that the weapon used is the main and only factor is wrong and why the pro 2 A side will dig in and not move on this issue.
    The first step can not be to take away a fundamental right.
    As has been stated before the weapon used is not so much the issue as is the perceived "reasons" the human did it along with the various other variables leading up to this.

    Sadly though, we will continue to have this circle jerk of an argument, it isn't a discussion anymore, because we will not honestly look at all the points involved, or even agree on the actual problem for that matter,just the quick fix that ultimately will cause a whole other set of issues thrusting us into spending more money, wasting more time and costing more lives.

  9. #869
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    That appears to only be to get a license to carry a hand gun not purchase one.
    Na. You need to be 21 for a handgun to be purchased or gifted. In Ohio, common ammo for a handgun, you need to be 21 to purchase.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    You could also secure your home better, people are fucking stupid when it comes to making their homes safe and leave doors and windows unlocked and shit, or not having proper locks.
    Those are important. I have deadbolts on all the outside entrance doors. And 3 security lights. And 2 dogs, which seem to bark at the slightest outside sound. But even with all those, the average time for the police to reach a scene is 8 mins. You could be dead and the intruder long gone. That time is much longer out here in the rural area I live in.

  10. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by Antius View Post
    The why should be more important than the how. A person that wants to kill will kill, regardless of gun regulation. We need to get to the root of the problem as to why these kids are doing what they're doing. But as per usual that will be swept aside to make room for each sides agenda.
    Enjoy your third world murder rate in the meantime?

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Na. You need to be 21 for a handgun to be purchased or gifted. In Ohio, common ammo for a handgun, you need to be 21 to purchase.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Those are important. I have deadbolts on all the outside entrance doors. And 3 security lights. And 2 dogs, which seem to bark at the slightest outside sound. But even with all those, the average time for the police to reach a scene is 8 mins. You could be dead and the intruder long gone. That time is much longer out here in the rural area I live in.
    True, but in Canada the area where I live, the worst thing we have had happen as far as break in is concerned is teenagers going into unlocked cars to steal shit after school lol. We are not worried about all that extra shit related to guns, it is not a worry we have to have. It is a huge burden to have that shit on your mind 24/7.
    Lead Game Designer

    YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/@Nateanderthal

  12. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by -Nurot View Post
    So, it's going to take the majority of Americans having lost a loved one in a mass shooting to have a productive conversation where people understand some principles better? The principle being common sense gun legislation is not a proverbial boogeyman, and might actually do some good.

    As for the, no firearm argument, I know very few (personally none) Americans who are saying responsible gun owners shouldn't be allowed to own reasonable firearms. If anyone needs an AR-15 with a high-capacity magazine to defend themselves, then they probably need some different friends.
    Don't Need it for Defense, but that 15+ Round Magazine sure comes in handy when you are Hunting and shooting long range shots. I have a Bolt action Rifle with a 4 round mag. Let me tell you it sure sucks when I'm out hunting and everyone else has 15-30 round clips and I am sitting there like an ass reloading every 4 shots and not getting near the shooting time in. I agree that there needs to be control, but flat out taking an industry that fuels much of Rural us and saying No, you cannot do that anymore just isn't practical.

  13. #873
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Reasonable concern for both safety and equality (as well as other traits) is a "good" thing. I am not actually anti-gun. People should have guns if they are responsible with them, etc.

    But sometimes, like you can note of the left, the right can get too zealous in their push for guns (and in turn safety).

    "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things." (I'll let you figure out what verse thats from. :P)
    I agree there are too many people who posses firearms and shouldn't. I am not opposed to a mandatory safetly training before you can purchase a firearm. My children have been raised around firearms and instructed the importance of firearm safety. Sadly, this is not the case in too many.

  14. #874
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    15,964
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I live in Rural MN and Have 8 guns currently, I am saving up to buy a New AR for Coyote, Fox, and Prairie Dog Hunting. I have 6 Shot Guns a .22 rifle and a .223 Rifle all are used for Hunting and Clay Pigeon shooting. 4 of the Guns have been passed down in my family from my Great Grandfather I shoot them all, not all of them regularly. I have one In each Out building for varmint and critter control we have a very bad Coyote problem around us, so much so that there is no season or limit to how many you can shoot. Also have had a few Rabid coons that I have shot in the past few years. The .22 never gets used as we cannot use Rifles for Deer hunting where I live in MN and its not nearly powerful enough to land the 300-600 Yd shots that I love hitting Prairie Dogs and Coyotes at. So I basically only use my 12 Gauge that I got from my Dad for Clay shooting and varmint control on the yard, and my .223 Rifle for hunting.

    How do you propose that someone comes into my Home and takes away something that has been a part of my family for over 100 years in the case of one of my shot guns? This is the issue I see with it, there is no reason to have anything other than a Handgun when you live in a large city. Out here in the sticks where we actually use our guns as tools I just don't see how you can regulate them more. I am all for stricter laws on purchasing guns, but the whole "Get rid of all guns" thing is just not realistic.
    Forever tie those firearms to your name, so when they inevitably get stolen or lost and then end up in the hands of someone who wants to use it in a crime, you and your family will be held liable.

    This would force "responsible" gun owners and gun rights advocates to make it of the utmost importance to practice diligent firearm security standards.

    As for your necessity for an AR for regulating pests on your property, one would like to think that would be dismissed as immaterial when restricting the sale of ARs to the public to curb soft target massacres.

  15. #875
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by -Nurot View Post
    So, it's going to take the majority of Americans having lost a loved one in a mass shooting to have a productive conversation where people understand some principles better? The principle being common sense gun legislation is not a proverbial boogeyman, and might actually do some good.

    As for the, no firearm argument, I know very few (personally none) Americans who are saying responsible gun owners shouldn't be allowed to own reasonable firearms. If anyone needs an AR-15 with a high-capacity magazine to defend themselves, then they probably need some different friends.
    Not just a need, but the choice to own one. And magazines can be quickly exchanged. Anyone who has practiced doing it, understands it only takes a second or two to do it. A SKS rifle, which is not like the design of the AR-15, but holds 10 rounds and fires a more powerful round in the 7.62mm can kill several people very quickly.

  16. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    True, but in Canada the area where I live, the worst thing we have had happen as far as break in is concerned is teenagers going into unlocked cars to steal shit after school lol. We are not worried about all that extra shit related to guns, it is not a worry we have to have. It is a huge burden to have that shit on your mind 24/7.
    See, we have the same thing going on around here. I get mad at my Wife or anyone else for that matter when they lock the car... I have never locked my house, Hell I didn't even have keys until a few months back for the doors. I love not having to deal with the large BS that other people talk about we have had 1 murder in the past 100 years in a 50 mile radius around where I live. I don't feel threatened by anyone breaking into my home because If Im there I have a gun to protect my family, if Im not there I could give 2 shits less.

  17. #877
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Antius View Post
    The why should be more important than the how. A person that wants to kill will kill, regardless of gun regulation. We need to get to the root of the problem as to why these kids are doing what they're doing. But as per usual that will be swept aside to make room for each sides agenda.
    A person that wants to kill will kill 2 maybe 3 with a knife, if that, before he is incapacitated, he won't mow down 17 people and seriously injure another 20 or frikkin' mow down 60 or what it was in Las Vegas? Besides, it takes balls on a whole other level to go killing with cold arms as opposed to having a gun.

    Guns ARE a problem here, because they offer every coward and retard an easy and thoughtless way to kill people. Things are not that easy with knife or axe. Guns can mass produce murder, that's why you have these mass shootings, because with gun this can be done.

  18. #878
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    True, but in Canada the area where I live, the worst thing we have had happen as far as break in is concerned is teenagers going into unlocked cars to steal shit after school lol. We are not worried about all that extra shit related to guns, it is not a worry we have to have. It is a huge burden to have that shit on your mind 24/7.
    Not really. I sleep well at night with my .357 mag revolver close to my pillow. Actually better than I would not having it there for quick access. And out in the public? I feel safer with my concealed .380 small pistol than I would without one. No burden at all except using common sense to be aware of your surroundings and safely carrying the firearm.

  19. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by Missed View Post
    Enjoy your third world murder rate in the meantime?
    We already have gun control laws that we can't enforce. One of these recent killers was in the military, wasn't supposed to have a gun, had domestic charges and the military never reported him. Fix the shit we have now first then we'll go from there.

  20. #880
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Not really. I sleep well at night with my .357 mag revolver close to my pillow. Actually better than I would not having it there for quick access. And out in the public? I feel safer with my concealed .380 small pistol than I would without one. No burden at all except using common sense to be aware of your surroundings and safely carrying the firearm.
    Until you get gunned down by some retard with his concealed .380 small pistol because his coffee had too much sugar and he had a bad day and felt like shooting people was the way to go on.

    I bet those guys in Vegas that got mowed down also had some concealed .380 small pistols, helped a ton there. Maybe we should offer schoolchildren .380 small pistols too? You know, just in case, to feel safer. Bulletproof vests too as mandatory school uniform too. Problem solved there!
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2018-02-15 at 03:04 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •