Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Arbs]

You know something, spill the seeds!

[seraknis]

But the double meaning could also easily translate to fighting against an unknown evil (well, the Old Gods/Void), to save Azeroth.

Not only it could be interpreted that way. Blizzard said it IS to be interpreted that way.

[Projectmars]

And C'thun in Ahn'Qiraj was "tier 2.5", although he was apparently harder than Kel'thuzad even after the nerf.

Wasn't C'thun where the "Mathematically Impossible" meme came from? At the very least I recall one of the top raiding guilds posting about how insanely high the DPS requirements were.

Besides, look at all the tier 2 raids we had besides AQ40 in Vanilla:
TBC: Caverns of Time - Mount Hyjal
Wrath: Ulduar
Cataclysm: Firelands
Mists: Throne of Thunder
WoD: Hellfire Citadel (Or Blackrock Foundry... WoD was weird)
Legion: Nighthold

Tier 2 Raids have been pretty well remembered imo.

[Drekmar]

Wasn't C'thun where the "Mathematically Impossible" meme came from? At the very least I recall one of the top raiding guilds posting about how insanely high the DPS requirements were.

Besides, look at all the tier 2 raids we had besides AQ40 in Vanilla:
TBC: Caverns of Time - Mount Hyjal
Wrath: Ulduar
Cataclysm: Firelands
Mists: Throne of Thunder
WoD: Hellfire Citadel (Or Blackrock Foundry... WoD was weird)
Legion: Nighthold

Tier 2 Raids have been pretty well remembered imo.

Iirc it was Ion who calculated it, and C'Thun indeed did get killed only after nerf.

[Deleted]

Wasn't C'thun where the "Mathematically Impossible" meme came from?

wasn‘t it chromaggus?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I really wish they do that. I don't get the people in this community that are so against villains reappearing. I have been a GM for D&D campaigns for nearly two decades and when you build a good villain you often have them confront the heroes multiple times. They can show up early on and toy with them, imprison them so they have to escape, attempt to corrupt them or bring them to their side, escape the moment the fight gets hard. If you don't throw a dimensional anchor on the big bad, they are gonna port away before they die or they are idiots!

Lich King syndrome maybe when he appeared often although I didn't mind it too much, I can see why it bothers ppl. Doesn't bother me though.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Lich King just appeared. He either overwhelmed you instantly or he just grandstanded and left.

I am talking about actually having several fights. Xavius for instance does it; we fight his Shade in the dungeon (and let's face it: Shade of Xavius Tyrannical 15+ is more of a challenge than the fat guy himself).
Azshara could show up in a questline where we fight her and only get saved by NPCs showing up, then fought again in a dungeon were she leaves once we get her to 90% because she doesn't have the time to deal with us (making it clear that it really is because she has a time sensitive plan we need to disrupt immediately, thus creating tension) and then we have to corner her at her base. Heck have her show up on other raid boss fights like Nefarian did (that part of BWD was just a brilliant way to develop a character and marry that to gameplay).

In terms of lore and story I get it but the more hyper critical would go "BLIZZ IS LAZY/OUT OF IDEAS CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING NEW11111"

[Paraka]

I will agree with that, I do not really understand why they are throwing away Azshara like this.

Probably due to having more plans of even bigger blander bass to fight. A Fel Void Arcane Naaru multi-planet entity that doesn't consume life, but changes it entirely before erasing it for something new to change.

[Drekmar]

In terms of lore and story I get it but the more hyper critical would go "BLIZZ IS LAZY/OUT OF IDEAS CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING NEW11111"

People did that with "OMG ONYXIA AGAIN". LUL

[Hitei]

I really wish they do that. I don't get the people in this community that are so against villains reappearing. I have been a GM for D&D campaigns for nearly two decades and when you build a good villain you often have them confront the heroes multiple times. They can show up early on and toy with them, imprison them so they have to escape, attempt to corrupt them or bring them to their side, escape the moment the fight gets hard. If you don't throw a dimensional anchor on the big bad, they are gonna port away before they die or they are idiots!

As a player: No.

That's just annoying. A good villain is built up before you meet them from second-hand information, or the destruction they leave behind. Or built up by the strength of those who follow them.

A main bad guy just showing up to go "Muahaha, I'm just toying with you, you won't get me that easily!" Is not only cliche as all hell, it's obnoxious because you already know you aren't going to do anything in that fight; it belittles the villain because you can't keep taking someone seriously when they just show up again and again to pull glorified pranks to show how evil they are; and it completely pulls the player out of the immersive experience to go: "HEY, HEY. REMEMBER THAT YOU'RE PLAYING THROUGH A PRE-CONSTRUCTED SCENARIO? HERE IS THE FINAL BOSS THAT YOU ARE GOING TO EVENTUALLY FACE DOWN THE LINE."

It's terrible.

[huth]

She'll run away and we'll kill her for good in the next (Old God-themed) expansion.

Given how the last fight "against" her went, i wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't even attackable during her encounter.

[Nathanyel]

In terms of lore and story I get it but the more hyper critical would go "BLIZZ IS LAZY/OUT OF IDEAS CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING NEW11111"

Fuck those people though.

[rcshaggy]

In before Blizzard makes Sylvanas another Garrosh 2.0, but instead of killing Horde members herself she sends them to their death.

[Hitei]

Yeah and Blizzard should just ignore them. These are narrative devices that WORK. The majority would enjoy it.
It's bad when it is done poorly of course; it was done badly with Kael'thas who we left for dead and was screaming at us just a bit later in Shattrath; if that Shivarra priestess had appeared with multiple demons on tow when Kael hit 5% and left with him, it would not sound ridiculous for him to call Tempest Keep a setback. But when you saw his corpse and got to loot it and get screenshots with your guild teabagging him, it does sound ridiculous.

- - - Updated - - -



I am sorry, that means it was done badly. The boss doesn't show up by themselves to show off their evil laugh. Yes that is clearly preposterous. The group stumbles on the boss meeting an underling from a distance and lose sight of them before they can ever engage. Then they try to confront them at a secondary location, they do some damage but the boss escapes because either they are afraid and got unprepared so they use their escape plan, or they judge the party within reach of an underling or summon and they have some extreme time sensitive ritual of doom they need to get back to attending to. Yes what you describe, what Blizzard did with the LK, is bad. But that does not mean you cannot have multiple confrontations with a character and have those confrontations be meaningful and not contrived.

What you are describing is exactly what I'm talking about. That is exactly contrived and gamey. It is never good. Ever. No villain going "that was a close one, you've activated my trap card now im going to go prepare to summon a thousand years of darkness!" is ever good.

All you are doing is slapping players in the face and saying, hey that fight you just did was scripted and you weren't going to do much no matter what. It happening more than once is just exponentially more obnoxious.

[CasualFilth]

In before Blizzard makes Sylvanas another Garrosh 2.0, but instead of killing Horde members herself she sends them to their death.

Nuuu, I think it's gonna be another Kerrigan undead/orc boy. Sylvanas is going to be OUR LADY AND SAVIOUR, OMG SO MISUNDERSTOOD!!!1111, like the whole Illidan bullshit.

[Dugna]

Yeah and Blizzard should just ignore them. These are narrative devices that WORK. The majority would enjoy it.
It's bad when it is done poorly of course; it was done badly with Kael'thas who we left for dead and was screaming at us just a bit later in Shattrath; if that Shivarra priestess had appeared with multiple demons on tow when Kael hit 5% and left with him, it would not sound ridiculous for him to call Tempest Keep a setback. But when you saw his corpse and got to loot it and get screenshots with your guild teabagging him, it does sound ridiculous.

- - - Updated - - -



I am sorry, that means it was done badly. The boss doesn't show up by themselves to show off their evil laugh. Yes that is clearly preposterous. The group stumbles on the boss meeting an underling from a distance and lose sight of them before they can ever engage. Then they try to confront them at a secondary location, they do some damage but the boss escapes because either they are afraid and got unprepared so they use their escape plan, or they judge the party within reach of an underling or summon and they have some extreme time sensitive ritual of doom they need to get back to attending to. Yes what you describe, what Blizzard did with the LK, is bad. But that does not mean you cannot have multiple confrontations with a character and have those confrontations be meaningful and not contrived.

this isn't a wow example but FF14 did that reoccurring villain thing alright with Zenos so it can be done well, but I guess that mostly worked because the player character of FF14 isn't a demigod like the player character of wow that just took down a titan which is basically a planet.

[Deleted]

I must admit I was being generous when I gave him a week.

Good to see Argus banned too...

...

...That guy, uses a lot of... dots...
.....

#savethedots

[Aeluron Lightsong]

this isn't a wow example but FF14 did that reoccurring villain thing alright with Zenos so it can be done well, but I guess that mostly worked because the player character of FF14 isn't a demigod like the player character of wow that just took down a titan which is basically a planet.

The said *titan* was more or less an avatar and not on the level of Sargeras(Could of been if things went the Legion's way).

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Nuuu, I think it's gonna be another Kerrigan undead/orc boy. Sylvanas is going to be OUR LADY AND SAVIOUR, OMG SO MISUNDERSTOOD!!!1111, like the whole Illidan bullshit.

They just wrote that arc with Illidan. Its been 6 years since MoP and Garrosh.

My money's on MoP 2.0.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They just wrote that arc with Illidan. Its been 6 years since MoP and Garrosh.

My money's on MoP 2.0.

Ahh yes. "PAINT THIS CONTINENT RED"