Bring back ranged survival!!!

[Frogguh]

As far as I know, there were very few hunters requesting a melee spec. It looks to be an internal decision on Blizzard's part to do so, so we got one in Legion. Survival hunters who enjoyed their spec were rightfully upset that they lost it. I remember losing Blood as a dps death knight, it's not pleasant.

Yes, there were people happy with the decision to make Survival a melee spec. I'm one of them. That said, had I had an opportunity for feedback before the decision was made, I'd have asked that they make a 4th spec or make BM the melee spec, since it has a lot less going for the hunter itself. I would never advocate the removal of a spec that others enjoy just for my own gain.

So, if you are advocating the removal of a spec that others love for your own gain, you're selfish. It's that simple. Either admit that you don't care about others and just want yourself to be happy (in which case you can't accuse others of the same, oh ye hypocrites) or stop trying to get Survival melee removed.

[Keren]

Just do it. Millions would love to see it back.

nah, thanks.

[ydraw]

your melodramatics don't make you seem impassioned and stoic. it makes you look ridiculous.

do what they did for druids, bring in a fourth spec.

There is not going to be a 4th spec for a pure DPS class. The only reason druids have 4 specs is that they have 4 different roles, and they couldn't balance feral without splitting the tank and DPS aspects of it.

Hunters aren't going to get a 4th spec. So the smart thing would be to bring back the spec that everyone liked and delete the one that nobody plays.

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So, if you are advocating the removal of a spec that others love for your own gain, you're selfish. It's that simple. Either admit that you don't care about others and just want yourself to be happy (in which case you can't accuse others of the same, oh ye hypocrites) or stop trying to get Survival melee removed.

Another way of putting it is trying to do what satisfies the most people. Should Blizzard cater to the hundred of thousands of people who were playing Ranged survival before they gutted it, or the less than 12,000 people who actually play melee survival?

Pretty easy decision really.

[aikanaro]

There is not going to be a 4th spec for a pure DPS class. The only reason druids have 4 specs is that they have 4 different roles, and they couldn't balance feral without splitting the tank and DPS aspects of it.

Hunters aren't going to get a 4th spec. So the smart thing would be to bring back the spec that everyone liked and delete the one that nobody plays.

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Another way of putting it is trying to do what satisfies the most people. Should Blizzard cater to the hundred of thousands of people who were playing Ranged survival before they gutted it, or the less than 12,000 people who actually play melee survival?

Pretty easy decision really.

Following blizzards logic then they should have removed the cat mechanics or the bear mechanics. I mean.. that's basically what they did to hunters to make it melee

[Eej]

Less than 2% of hunters are playing Survival now.

When survival was ranged it was close to 40% at some points. Not only that, but the total class population decreased significantly when Ranged survival was removed. A fair percentage of the hunter player base abandoned the class altogether when survival went Melee.

"Plenty" more people enjoyed playing survival when it was ranged than the pitifully tiny amount of people who enjoy it now.

Yeah, the drop in Hunter population is totally due to Ranged survival being removed and not MM and BM also being awful to play.

[aikanaro]

Yeah, the drop in Hunter population is totally due to Ranged survival being removed and not MM and BM also being awful to play.

bm was always aweful to play to me, and MM has been since they made aimed shot hard casting the best way to play it (cata i think). once survival was changed i stopped playing my hunter and i did demon hunter main since i wanted to try it as a tank.

[ydraw]

Yeah, the drop in Hunter population is totally due to Ranged survival being removed and not MM and BM also being awful to play.

Having only 2 specs to choose from certainly makes a difference. MM's been awful to play before in the game's history too. Luckily back then, we could respec to survival. Now we can't, because it was replaced with a melee spec that is useless to people who play ranged DPS.

[bloodyaxe2018]

Having only 2 specs to choose from certainly makes a difference. MM's been awful to play before in the game's history too. Luckily back then, we could respec to survival. Now we can't, because it was replaced with a melee spec that is useless to people who play ranged DPS.

MM has enough talents that is should provide 2 viable ways to play. The New explosive shot should gtfo and bring back old ES with lnl and then let another path focus around Aimed Shot. Surv can function as a hybrid without ruining the class. Issue seems more about people not liking the ranged options provided vs hating that melee is an option.

[Deleted]

I don’t know how close you guys follow the alpha but I think the new survival spec has some interesting ideas and mechanics

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don’t know how close you guys follow the alpha but I think the new survival spec has some interesting ideas and mechanics

It’s looking pretty nice so far really looking forward to trying it.

[aikanaro]

MM has enough talents that is should provide 2 viable ways to play. The New explosive shot should gtfo and bring back old ES with lnl and then let another path focus around Aimed Shot. Surv can function as a hybrid without ruining the class. Issue seems more about people not liking the ranged options provided vs hating that melee is an option.

I've been saying that since they changed it. And the problem with mm is that there is no option where you don't have to hard cast aimed shot.

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I don’t know how close you guys follow the alpha but I think the new survival spec has some interesting ideas and mechanics

If it ends up similar to redmage in ffxiv it will be fun.

[Deleted]

I've been saying that since they changed it. And the problem with mm is that there is no option where you don't have to hard cast aimed shot.

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If it ends up similar to redmage in ffxiv it will be fun.

God that and vulnerable is just horribly bad and boring gameplay. I had to go BM on my hunter alt this expansion because i just couldnt be assed to play MM.

I actually prefer completely facerolling over MM as it is now

[ydraw]

MM has enough talents that is should provide 2 viable ways to play.

That's not how talents work though.

There's only 1 viable build which is the best DPS build. It doesn't matter if MM has access to black arrow, if black arrow is not the highest DPS talent.

[bloodyaxe2018]

God that and vulnerable is just horribly bad and boring gameplay. I had to go BM on my hunter alt this expansion because i just couldnt be assed to play MM.

I actually prefer completely facerolling over MM as it is now

It cannot be impossible for them to make the Aimed/Marked/Steady shot + vulnerable build while also having an ES, lnl, steady shot, maybe Black arrow? (they moved serpent sting, cobra shot and chimera out so there need to be at least 1 other unique skill in there). The 2 paths do not have to function well when mixed since current talents already suck if you do not pick the perfect ones. It has to simply be a lack of resources spent on these specs to offer more than a cookie cutter build.

They used to be able to offer huge talent trees to shape your spec and now they cannot offer variety with the tiny trees we have now.

That's not how talents work though.

There's only 1 viable build which is the best DPS build. It doesn't matter if MM has access to black arrow, if black arrow is not the highest DPS talent.

That is the case but no where does it say that has to be the way it is. Surely it is not unreasonable for the largest sub MMO to provide multiple working ways to play per spec of each class. There have been enough skill purges and talent purges that the system should be able to support this by now.

Blizzards goal is likely not to provide everyone with these options though and add just enough to get people to play. It clearly was a huge misstep in the past for them to try and make every class unimportant and the specs have suffered for it.

[Deleted]

That's not how talents work though.

There's only 1 viable build which is the best DPS build. It doesn't matter if MM has access to black arrow, if black arrow is not the highest DPS talent.

Thats not 100% true though.

Several specs have talent choices that are so close that their dps difference is neglible. The difference between talent choices in far most cases is smalle enough that the spec's built in rng will make dps swing more then talent choices anyway.

In most cases only the most elites players are actually going to get a difference from the different talents

[aikanaro]

It cannot be impossible for them to make the Aimed/Marked/Steady shot + vulnerable build while also having an ES, lnl, steady shot, maybe Black arrow? (they moved serpent sting, cobra shot and chimera out so there need to be at least 1 other unique skill in there). The 2 paths do not have to function well when mixed since current talents already suck if you do not pick the perfect ones. It has to simply be a lack of resources spent on these specs to offer more than a cookie cutter build.

They used to be able to offer huge talent trees to shape your spec and now they cannot offer variety with the tiny trees we have now.



That is the case but no where does it say that has to be the way it is. Surely it is not unreasonable for the largest sub MMO to provide multiple working ways to play per spec of each class. There have been enough skill purges and talent purges that the system should be able to support this by now.

Blizzards goal is likely not to provide everyone with these options though and add just enough to get people to play. It clearly was a huge misstep in the past for them to try and make every class unimportant and the specs have suffered for it.

You are right, it shouldn't be impossible. But that currently isn't an option. Explosive shot as it is, is absolutely stupid.. lol.

[ONCHEhap]

No, it's not. All the streamers who played it (barely, cause they got bored quick as fuck) said it's... interesting, but clunkier than on live, and that it feels really awkward.
So no, it's not fun.

streamers are always talking shit without having a clue
besides,the class is far from finished either,it's almost like it's a WIP

[aikanaro]

Thats not 100% true though.

Several specs have talent choices that are so close that their dps difference is neglible. The difference between talent choices in far most cases is smalle enough that the spec's built in rng will make dps swing more then talent choices anyway.

In most cases only the most elites players are actually going to get a difference from the different talents

While true, the issue is that everyone poppies those people and if you don't they mock you for it. When recording was a thing I constantly ran Sims and calculators even though things like askmrrobot would tell you what to do. I would rearrange things and SIM better results. Sometimes I would spend hundreds of gold for about 5 dps difference lol. I love min maxing. I used to spend more time thorycrafting and doing math than playing the game itself in sure. But most people aren't like me. Then again.. i was in a top guild on illidan... (Encore)They would just do what others do.

[Deleted]

While true, the issue is that everyone poppies those people and if you don't they mock you for it. When recording was a thing I constantly ran Sims and calculators even though things like askmrrobot would tell you what to do. I would rearrange things and SIM better results. Sometimes I would spend hundreds of gold for about 5 dps difference lol. I love min maxing. I used to spend more time thorycrafting and doing math than playing the game itself in sure. But most people aren't like me. Then again.. i was in a top guild on illidan... (Encore)They would just do what others do.

i do these things aswell i'm just saying ig you really take an objective glance at it - these things can easily be interchanged without having much of an impact other then playstyle or cleave/aoe/single target situations

[Crimsonfiend76]

Guardian druid was never a spec, but people are loving it now.

So go play mage, you genius. See how easy it is?

WTF? First off all, as much of an abortion legion survival is (and yes I do play it often), I would rather have BM be the melee spec and still keep the old MOP SV complete with our old KS execute. I'd much rather manage my dots than play boring BM with nothing do to, that said, your analogy makes no sense.

You are aware druids have (4) specs right? They didn't cannibalize feral to make room for guardian... not to mention feral already was the tanking/dps spec to begin with. They didn't just pull guardian out of their ass to create a spec at the expense of an existing one. Now I'm willing to give a melee hunter spec a shot despite the ones asking for it was a very vocal minority (if any) but not at the expense of losing a popular with a well established spec identity over the last several xpacs, and nothing was wrong with it, other than just minor tweaking.