Preach Said All Classes Are Currently Dull Without Azerite Gear

[Gardoc]

Only someone who didn't play 10 years ago would say something so ridiculous.

I played in TBC. Most classes had 2 button rotations and 1 cookie cutter build for all PVE content.

The most in-depth character customisation came from trying to remain at the hit cap without wasting too much itemisation exceeding it.

PVE wise you're probably right, the dude corrected himself and said WOTLK. But PVP wise he was right even with TBC.

[Deleted]

The new demo spec seems awesome. To me it seems like they started out stripping each spec down to ther barebone and are then going to add things as we progress through alpha(like they did with demo). But yeah never to early for some constructive feedback.

"this spec is shit" helps noone.

[Smallfruitbat]

Your spec started to function properly once you got your first golden dragon trait, that's one of the reasons why you could ramp up to 13 points so quickly.

What we got with Concordance added a nice layer of whipped cream on top but didn't really change gameplay for many classes - I want to say the only standouts are Enhancement Shaman and Destruction Warlocks.

Here's a fancy tip that I know you'll ignore.

Stop viewing each expansion as an expansion and start looking at them all as their own new game.

Because that's what they are.

It does suck that we didn't get another talent tier and that we won't be getting one for BfA either, but from a developer perspective it's easier for them to tie an ability to a piece of equipment that you'll surrender at the end of an expansion. Then they can bring forward the winners and easily shelve the duds. All while not needing to create another possible 110 talents (if the ability is tied to a talent tier, 12x3+1x3-1 for a single created talent.)

Like who among us as a prot warrior would have taken Neltharion's Fury if they'd had basically anything else in that talent row?

Anyway, to the original topic, Preach is correct in that we can't fully judge how classes and specs are going to be played until much later in the cycle when we have Azerite armor available and see what else is going to be brought to the table.

Meanwhile you live in some crazy fantasy land where the game never changes but we keep adding things to it and now we all have 10 active abilities and cooldowns to all juggle.

I agree with most of what you are saying, yes, continually adding more and more to the game is a recipe for disaster. I'm eager to see what the new gear provides but I have a sense that it will not be replacing what was taken away in terms of the things that made the classes more interesting. My concern as a player is that there enough opportunity for feedback to make appropriate adjustments before launch.

There is a massive difference between the 'whipped cream' traits all the nice little bonuses and the things that were designed as an integral part of the specs rotation and thus far haven't made it back into BFA. I don't mind spending time building strength on a character and things altering playstyle during the course of the expac, what I do mind is having to grind out a load of stuff to unlock the spells in the first place. The launch of 7.0 was a real kick in the teeth for several of the specs I was playing at the time -OK, current content was nerfed at the time but it was a draining to see things removed for the impending arrival of artifacts. I remember out main tank throwing a fit and refusing to play because it had been over simplified to the point of boredom in his opinion.

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tm2z3GQL84

In this video preach discusses his feelings on classes in BFA and hopes that the Azerite gear wont be just % to spell damage. That the gear will change up the gameplay of the classes with meaningful choice. He said that right now in the beta, things are grim and every single spec is Terrible. What are your feelings on the Alpha classes? Will Azerite Armor improve things? It's worrying hearing feedback like this That the classes are all fucked right now and absolutely no indication that Azerite Armor will have interesting gameplay. It might just be netherlight 2.0 rather than what the legiondaries and weapons had. The lack of info on what the armor is is concerning


Do you think all the specs right now are boring or bad? Without good Azerite Trait will you stop playing? From what ive watched, some specs dont seem so bad. Warlocks seem fine, others seem fine with the right talents.

Well objectively we are loosing way too much stuff, besides boring +% dmg increases, many specs are losing some 6-7 passive artifact abilities that you could play around + plethora of legendaries , also tier sets are gone which in many cases offered an extra layer of interaction for the player.

And its obvious specs are balanced around all these things.

There are 2 major issues with this, one is that specs will become very boring and two, this mechanic of shitty base spec + overpowered item you lose every expansion creates huge balancing issues and we all know how good is blizzard with balancing things out, especially if they shuffle abilities around like now.

I just think they are creating artificial problems for themselves. We should absorb atleast part of our aritfact weapon power instead of losing it all.

[Mumba]

Making a serious class review when many abilites aren't even implemented and the alpha is full of bugs seems stupid. Also, the stats on alpha gear are so low it basically would be like making Legion class guides at 780 ilvl.

[Maudib]

Big number of button to press =/= deep gameplay.

Also, i didnt say anything about wow classes.

Actually it can, and did. Now you ask yourself one question... am I attacking 1 or 2 mobs... or am I attack 3+... that is the ONLY thing that changes your rotation in the least, whether you are slicing a boar or bashing a boss. Pathetic. interrupts, snares, de-enrage, debuffs, pretty much gone from the gameplay... it made the FANTASY deep in classes... whereas now it's a simply 3-4 button spam. Or 1 button is you have Gnome Sequencer II addon.

[Deleted]

Mists of Pandaria was the pinnacle of Class Design.

We've been on a steady decline ever since.

Legion Class Design is hilariously bad. Anyone who claims otherwise should get a brain scan. Designing classes entirely around a rental item that gets taken away is so fucking moronic it hurts.


His analogy about the cake was that you had a core rotation. Then you added toppings to it.

These days you don't have a cake. You have batter and it requires so much more to make it into a cake. Rotational spells being talents, mandatory legendaries and artifacts.

As you can quite clearly see - Classes are a complete joke without their Artifact. Who's fault is that?

I can name several classes that dosnt feel clunky without there artifact powers are u kidding me?

Arms, warrior, Fury warrior, Assa Rogue.. Are u even playing legion? Guess not. Please just quit already.

[Gaidax]

Preach analysis LUL

Seconded

10c

[Aliven]

Lets be very vocal so that Blizzard gets that it needs to be more than what they showed us during Blizzcon becuase thoes few "talents" there are not going to get players anywhere close to what we had in Legion.

I believe blizzcon was a bunch of placeholders. Thats why i wait to see in alpha the actual informations.

[kingdwas]

It doesn't seem like he said classes in BFA are dull in the sense that they're all bad he's saying they all seem incomplete like they're missing something or something has been stripped away and that there is something missing in its place but it hasn't yet been implemented yet, likely due to the fact that the Azerite Armor has not yet been shown. In the current state my mage has lost a lot of what use to be core spells in Beta shows they're meant to be played the same and it is rather slow passed.

He also states that a lot of this may also be due to how many classes are balanced with end game current content in mind such as their respective raid theirs. Everyone in beta is presented in ilvl far below even that than the average current WoW player has (below 900 ilvl) and this may contribute to many classes feeling slow passed or lacking impact.

You are taking all his words out of context because none of these words you said are what he's saying in the video. It seems more like an attempt to stir the mob than actually start a discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, Preach praises artifact weapons so incredibly high that he is a terrible person to go for right now since he's so hilariously biased.

I don't understand what you're saying here, are you saying that because he praises artifact weapons right now that he's extremely bias and a bad source of information? You are aware he was against artifact weapons in their first iterations because he knew how meaningless a lot of the farming and perks were, taking us back to the old talent system we had removed from the game and limiting people's powers which they are balanced around having correct?

You're also aware that it wasn't till recently that he liked the Artifact system because the global AK change and now alts were able to level their weapons and as well as off-specs yes?

He's also said there's nothing wrong with the Artifact Weapon system except for every system around it such as AK, limited places for AP and the RNG factor of Relics as well as the RNG factor of the Crucible that was added but the weapons themselves with their skins, and new abilities and ability alterations were a welcome addition, and a system Blizzard intends to keep, thus why they're introducing Azerite Armor which is a similar system, just with a more cut down tree of more meaningful choices instead of just +3% damage to fireball and more along the lines of Your Flame Strike strikes 2 times.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you realize how much of a shit show this sets up for Blizzard to deal with? If classes are utterly reliant upon Azerite gear in order for them to be functional and fun, then what happens to the people that don't aquire the gear? Will dungeon players have an entirely different set of Azerite armor that gives them different abilities and bonuses than say a mythic raider? If so, how the fuck is Blizzard going to balance that? What about PvP?

Blizzard has had a hard enough time balancing tier sets, artifacts, and legendaries in Legion and now their supposed to balance Azerite Armor for 36 specs that change from tier to tier?

You are aware that the new Azerite Armor is going to be plentiful and a common thing yes? It's by no means a hard core raider or PvPer exclusive thing. Everyone's going to have Azerite Armor and they're going to likely be in the slots where Tier gear would be. As for types, yes they're likely going to be multiple different types either for PvPers or Raiders or Mythic + runners which would be great as all these elements need different types of gear.

Blizzard wouldn't have problems balancing these anymore than they do now as these likely to remain the same as per types of gear as in high ilvl chest of same name will have same choices, not RNG. As for the out they'll "balance for 36 specs" it'd be no harder or complex than the balancing of 36 different artifact weapons, 36 different types of raid sets, 36 specs worth of relics, or all the crucible choice. In fact this would be easier because it would just combine the 4.

- - - Updated - - -

Every expansion ever, there are always people like you, who claim that its alpha, that stuff is not finished, that everything will definately change and tell other to shut up, and every expansion ever gets released with almost the same things that have been in the alpha and then you guys come back to forums to whine how stuff is bad, how blizz do not listen.

Please reread the comment you're replying to because you're agreeing with what he said exactly. I'm assuming you read the first line or just the quotes before you started to write this.

[Aggrophobic]

I believe blizzcon was a bunch of placeholders. Thats why i wait to see in alpha the actual informations.

Hope you're right. Not counting on it though, with the last Q&A and all.
I do hope you're right though.

[Sixnno]

I find it poor design that a class isn't interesting without a specific piece of equipment.

All classes should be designed to be interesting, fun, and/or viable without Azerite gear. You should, from leveling a character all the way to ducking 120, have a good class with you.

The Azerite necklace and traits should AUGMENT your spec, not complete it. So when we lost it and we go to artifact version 3 next expansion, it shouldn't feel like a hollow spec. You might lose something that makes it fun for you, but the spec should still hold it's own.

Right now, some specs just became so interwoven with their artifacts that with out them.. they just feel bleh.

[Aliven]

Hope you're right. Not counting on it though, with the last Q&A and all.
I do hope you're right though.

Low expectations all the way.

[Gungnir]

I can name several classes that dosnt feel clunky without there artifact powers are u kidding me?

Arms, warrior, Fury warrior, Assa Rogue.. Are u even playing legion? Guess not. Please just quit already.

???????????????
Are we even playing the same game?
Fury warrior without 35%+ haste feels like absolute garbage.
Arms warrior in general feels like absolute garbage because it's spamming 2 buttons and praying to RNGJesus for a CS reset.
Assassination rogue is waiting for energy to do a mutilate.

If I could sit your ass down and let you play those specs but the MoP variants, you'd instantly realize just how gutted and horrible those specs feel in comparison.

[Deleted]

???????????????
Are we even playing the same game?
Fury warrior without 35%+ haste, Cean-Arr, Beserkers or SotBL feels like absolute garbage.
Arms warrior in general feels like absolute garbage because it's spamming 2 buttons and praying to RNGJesus for a CS reset. This was a thousand times worse during EN when Tactician procs could mean a 50-100k dps difference
All rogue specs are waiting for energy to do something.

If I could sit your ass down and let you play those specs but the MoP variants, you'd instantly realize just how gutted and horrible those specs feel in comparison.

Added some things to it.

[Deleted]

???????????????
Are we even playing the same game?
Fury warrior without 35%+ haste feels like absolute garbage.
Arms warrior in general feels like absolute garbage because it's spamming 2 buttons and praying to RNGJesus for a CS reset.
Assassination rogue is waiting for energy to do a mutilate.

If I could sit your ass down and let you play those specs but the MoP variants, you'd instantly realize just how gutted and horrible those specs feel in comparison.

HE can not realize it when you are too slow so you do not even know gcd happend you do not think it is clunky.

[Gungnir]

Added some things to it.

Fair point my dude.
I think Legion is the first time I've been outright disappointed with how all the specs play. The only spec I've found that I can maybe enjoy is WW monk, all of the other specs just plays really shitty.

[glowpipe]

Good thing the expansion is not going to be without azerite gear then. Why the fuck are people complaining about balancing, class feel and general gameplay, when its not even in frikking beta..... its EARLY alpha. 95% of whats currently playable will be changed one way or another before full release.

[Gungnir]

Good thing the expansion is not going to be without azerite gear then. Why the fuck are people complaining about balancing, class feel and general gameplay, when its not even in frikking beta..... its EARLY alpha. 95% of whats currently playable will be changed one way or another before full release.

That's because without any input, Blizzard won't make the changes we want to see.
I've never understood this fucking ass-backwards logic. "Oh we don't really like what we see but let's not say anything until the expansion is live, and then all we can do is just wait until next expansion ez".

[glowpipe]

Why even bother replying if you can't seem to grasp what's being discussed here?
BASE CLASSES ARE DOGSHIT. THEY ARE GUTTED PIECES OF SHIT.
A RENTAL item should NOT fix a spec to make it PLAYABLE.

Classes are not final. There gonna be a bunch of changes. If its like it is now in RC. Sure. Get the pitchforks. Now, 7 months before its coming out and its not even in beta. There is no need what so ever to panic.