Hopefully, this is not the extent of our BfA utility...

[Jester Joe]

Root also have a 35 yard range and Paralyze 20, root also doesn't break with 1 DoT tick. Who wouldn't trade +15 yards and spammable casts for an extra 1.5s cast time? Literally no one for no reason. Paralyze/Imprison was severely overnerfed no matter how you look at it. I could maybe get a 30s CD IF they increased its range to 30 yards to compensate, but 1 min CD on a 20 yard ability that'll break on 1 point of damage is just garbo.

No, being able to instantly cc something as one of the most mobile melee already is pretty ridiculous.

[keqe]

I wish they'd delete monks, literally no one is as whiny as those losers.

10% movement speed aura isn't bad, unless they removed it. DH's 5% magic debuff is worthless because ALL Warlock specs have the same thing on top of being a much better class and having Healthstones and Gateway. The Monk/DH incap change was because it's retarded in PvP, people use it just to interrupt casts while mongoloiding a target down. Who even uses ANY non-stun CC in dungeons? Do you really need to spam it? Are you really so inept that you can't simply move away from the target you CC'd? You're also missing that they're removing AoE stuns from a lot of classes, so Monk having one is amazing for dungeons.

Warlocks seem to have lost the 5% magic debuff. Previously DH had 3% haste buff and warlock the magic debuff. Now DH has the debuff and warlock none.

Most likely warlock will get something else instead. We have to see once they manage to actually apply the stuff into alpha. Many classes are missing core abilities.

[Llarold]

LS and RoP will only be useful in dungeons. There will still be nothing useful that a Monk will bring to raids.

Overall, the class isn't really losing much proportional to other classes. It hasn't gained anything yet, but I don't think a boring pre-combat Mastery buff justifies Monk beyond 1 per raid.
You want the class to be brought because it's actually valuable, not because it's an Inscription buff scroll. If WW DPS or BrM survival are near their current values (at this time on the Alpha they are, but we're still at the very beginning of design/tuning), the class still has a role in raids.

[Saverem]

Warlocks seem to have lost the 5% magic debuff. Previously DH had 3% haste buff and warlock the magic debuff. Now DH has the debuff and warlock none.

Most likely warlock will get something else instead. We have to see once they manage to actually apply the stuff into alpha. Many classes are missing core abilities.

Locks already bring 3 UNIQUE utility that no other class brings. They didn't need more, which makes sense why they removed the Curse debuff.

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Overall, the class isn't really losing much proportional to other classes. It hasn't gained anything yet, but I don't think a boring pre-combat Mastery buff justifies Monk beyond 1 per raid.
You want the class to be brought because it's actually valuable, not because it's an Inscription buff scroll. If WW DPS or BrM survival are near their current values (at this time on the Alpha they are, but we're still at the very beginning of design/tuning), the class still has a role in raids.

WW survival is pretty sub par. They rely on mobility and pro-active ToK and that's it. Looks like they are actually getting a slight survivability nerf because their healing elixers are now on the mobility buff row. So they have to choose to either have better mobility or better healing now. And as far as I know, their transcendance no longer has that 25% HP heal like in Legion, which is another massive self heal nerf.

As for BrMs, their only survivability niche is surviving high spike PHYSICAL damage. They are still pretty shit tanks for consistent high damage fights or magic damage heavy fights.

[Noradin]

The difference is the spammable ones are casted.

Some casted ones aren't spammable.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Having both ring of peace and leg sweep at once is probably the most op thing a tank could have. If they had them both now they would be a top tier tank for 5 mans.

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Some casted ones aren't spammable.

Which ones?

[Saverem]

Having both ring of peace and leg sweep at once is probably the most op thing a tank could have. If they had them both now they would be a top tier tank for 5 mans.

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Which ones?

The AoE stun and RoP will only be useful for M+ and PvP. I'm talking about raids in this thread. I am well aware those 2 things will be useful for dungeons and PvP. Even with those 2 things, I'd still much rather take a DH or DK to M+ though. I prefer their self sustainability (and their mass grip as well as DH's AoE silence and fear) to an AoE stun or RoP any day.

Guessing he's referring to Paladin's Repentence and Shaman's Hex which have 30s CD. However, those 2 classes also provide A SHIT TON of other utility to complement their CC crapiness.

[Super Kami Dende]

Some casted ones aren't spammable.

No shit? Hence why I typed out plainly "the SPAMMABLE ones are Casted" which doesn't include non-spammable ones that are casted.

Huurrr durrrr...

[dcc626]

I wish they'd delete monks, literally no one is as whiny as those losers.

10% movement speed aura isn't bad, unless they removed it. DH's 5% magic debuff is worthless because ALL Warlock specs have the same thing on top of being a much better class and having Healthstones and Gateway. The Monk/DH incap change was because it's retarded in PvP, people use it just to interrupt casts while mongoloiding a target down. Who even uses ANY non-stun CC in dungeons? Do you really need to spam it? Are you really so inept that you can't simply move away from the target you CC'd? You're also missing that they're removing AoE stuns from a lot of classes, so Monk having one is amazing for dungeons.

am pretty sure they swpped the 5% magic damage to DH from warlock, so they dont have it anymore on alpha. so that kind of invalidates that part of your point.

[Super Kami Dende]

I wish they'd delete monks, literally no one is as whiny as those losers.

Ever been to the shaman Forums? Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeew boy

[Enkrypt]

Monk alt PvPer here.

I don't like all the changes, but if I'm being honest, Paralyze needed a longer CD. That ability is downright OP when combined with our mobility.

[Buildapanda]

We were promised no such thing. The utility "un-nerf" was aimed at classes who lost a lot of utility since Cataclysm. We walked through that process mostly unscathed and so have not had anything "given back to us".

How does a class that never existed in cataclysm walk through something unscathed that makes no sense lolw hat are you talking about exactly? mistweavers have had tons of problems and they aren't addressing any of them.

[Jester Joe]

Guessing he's referring to Paladin's Repentence and Shaman's Hex which have 30s CD. However, those 2 classes also provide A SHIT TON of other utility to complement their CC crapiness.

Uh...what.

Ret paladin brings-
1) An absorb shield that gets sneezed off a tank
2) An extremely slow mana regen
3) The ability to prevent physical damage for 10 seconds, but drops aggro when used.
4) A snare
5) A minute long CD on a stun.
6) The ability to remove snares.

So sure, number wise it sounds impressive, but it's hardly useful outside of Hand of Freedom/Hand of Protection, one of which is getting nerfed badly next expansion anyway.

So...yeah, don't want to hear that paladins bring a ton of utility when most of it is fluff.

[Llarold]

As for BrMs, their only survivability niche is surviving high spike PHYSICAL damage. They are still pretty shit tanks for consistent high damage fights or magic damage heavy fights.

Agreed on the WW stuff. WW mobility is still around best-in-class even without mobility talents, so there's that, but it's a frustrating choice. Best I can say is it's still early, and that if a class has poor mobility and survival but does excellent damage, they'll still be brought to raids.

As for BrM, Warrior and Monk are the only tanks with active mitigation that works on spell damage in BFA. At this point, DK/DH/Pally have reactive self-healing that's maybe better than Warrior/Monk AM, but we don't really know yet. What we do know is Warrior/Monk have something different. It could be an advantage.

[Musta]

Pretty sure we are in EARLY ALPHA. There is no reason to panic right now. From the Alpha notes it looks like they are doing minor changes here and there for each class followed by some major changes. Until this reaches Beta there is absolutely no reason to panic and stir up a shit storm for nothing.

That's my 2 cents at least.

Remember the 12 class only buffs they announced in blizzcon? ALREADY CUT.
So stop with this "its alpha" because its cleary done by a reason.

[axxey]

Doesn't matter at all how "hard" it is.

There is not a single encounter in Antorus, or legion, where a root is worse than another CC.

Dungeon Odyn ? Root is good enough
Coven ? Root is good enough
Agrammar ? Root is good enough

And so forth.

90% of incap usage is for a caster or ability interupt for which root does nothing.
If incap had a cast time I'd take it off my primary bars completely.

[keqe]

Remember the 12 class only buffs they announced in blizzcon? ALREADY CUT.
So stop with this "its alpha" because its cleary done by a reason.

Seems unlikely as Warrior, Lock, Rogue, Priest, Mage, and DH all have a buff/debuff for group/raid in Alpha. They are most likely reshuffling and/or rethinking some of them and didn't apply some to the classes. Makes sense since for example the 10% armor from paladin was pretty bad as it only helped tanks a bit. Compared to many of the others.

[dhays]

Remember the 12 class only buffs they announced in blizzcon? ALREADY CUT.
So stop with this "its alpha" because its cleary done by a reason.

Yes it is done for a reason. They are trying stuff out. It's ALPHA! If you don't like it then unsub and stop playing WoW. Otherwise, just wait. It doesn't help anyone to start bitching whent hey haven't even started to look at the Monk class yet in depth.

[Deleted]

Agreed on the WW stuff. WW mobility is still around best-in-class even without mobility talents, so there's that, but it's a frustrating choice. Best I can say is it's still early, and that if a class has poor mobility and survival but does excellent damage, they'll still be brought to raids.

As for BrM, Warrior and Monk are the only tanks with active mitigation that works on spell damage in BFA. At this point, DK/DH/Pally have reactive self-healing that's maybe better than Warrior/Monk AM, but we don't really know yet. What we do know is Warrior/Monk have something different. It could be an advantage.

Paladins can also spec into a shield to help specific magic heavy encounters.

This expansion needs to be the time for warrior tanks to shine again(not saying they need to be OP, but i cant handle another expansion of low dps, low utility, bottom tier tanking from my warrior)

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Remember the 12 class only buffs they announced in blizzcon? ALREADY CUT.
So stop with this "its alpha" because its cleary done by a reason.

Like fort and stuff? Its still there.. ?

[Musta]

Paladins can also spec into a shield to help specific magic heavy encounters.

This expansion needs to be the time for warrior tanks to shine again(not saying they need to be OP, but i cant handle another expansion of low dps, low utility, bottom tier tanking from my warrior)

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Like fort and stuff? Its still there.. ?

I mean this:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=275398/c...le-for-azeroth