The Big Lie - by Normal Dungeoneering

[Phookah]

Why are you people feeding a troll?

I don't think you know what that word means. They aren't wrong; normals are harder and take longer than heroic dungeons do. They just wanted to know why, which is something I explained in my first post.

[Aphrel]

I've just finished running the first higher level dungeon after the whole "scaling the world" happened. It just happened to be Blackrock Caverns. The group was decent, we at least remembered some of the mechanics, and only wiped twice on some trash before reading up that we had to stack to share the damage from the meteor abilities they did.
All in all, it took us over 30 minutes to finish the dungeon. A normal dungeon...

Now, if i didn't know better at this point i'd be inclined to think that if this is NORMAL, then heroic must be insanely difficult!
So move forward to level 110, a player queues for a random heroic aaaaand...it's NOTHING like they imagined...it's trivial at best. Even lower mythic+s take less time to complete.

Now i'm no genius, but how can this be normal?....

All cata dungeons are insanely overtuned. Their difficulty resemble that of the mop challengemode dungs in that theres so many mechanics that downright oneshots you if you dont play them correct. Dm north also seem to suffer form this extreme overtuning.

On the +side. Any1 that can level in cata dungs can do weekly mythic 15 easily.

[ToxicFlame]

No its an old dungeon and old dungeons take longer and they should stay as they were designed .... not all dungeons are meant to be mindless zerg fests lol

No they are not agreed, but at the same time the other extreme you are proposing is worse imo. At no point should an old dungeon take potentially longer than a current Endgame dungeon,not talking about normals, and heroics that you outgear, but rather +10 and higher. I feel like 10 - 15 maybe 20 minutes tops would be reasonable given current dungeon times.

[Shakari]

No they are not agreed, but at the same time the other extreme you are proposing is worse imo. At no point should an old dungeon take potentially longer than a current Endgame dungeon,not talking about normals, and heroics that you outgear, but rather +10 and higher. I feel like 10 - 15 maybe 20 minutes tops would be reasonable given current dungeon times.

Thing is there not related to current end game dungeons and aren't meant to be, there their own experience, though they were once current. You seems to think the they should all be zerg fests ie 15 - 20 min like current content... and there not meant to be like that.

[ToxicFlame]

Thing is there not related to current end game dungeons and aren't meant to be, there their own experience. You seems to think the they should all be zerz fests ie 15 - 20 min.

They are related though as they are part of the same game and further they are both part of the experience said game provides.
I think it's bad design to have a significant difficulty drop, somewhere in the middle, here, after you cap that then goes up as you progress through them again.

[Shakari]

They are related though as they are part of the same game and further they are both part of the experience said game provides.
I think it's bad design to have a significant difficulty drop, somewhere in the middle, here, after you cap that then goes up as you progress through them again.

The only way they are related is that they are in the same game, outside that ... there different, you don't have half the tools or endgame equipment etc.
and that variability is not a bad thing overall.

[agentsi]

I've just finished running the first higher level dungeon after the whole "scaling the world" happened. It just happened to be Blackrock Caverns. The group was decent, we at least remembered some of the mechanics, and only wiped twice on some trash before reading up that we had to stack to share the damage from the meteor abilities they did.
All in all, it took us over 30 minutes to finish the dungeon. A normal dungeon...

Now, if i didn't know better at this point i'd be inclined to think that if this is NORMAL, then heroic must be insanely difficult!
So move forward to level 110, a player queues for a random heroic aaaaand...it's NOTHING like they imagined...it's trivial at best. Even lower mythic+s take less time to complete.

Now i'm no genius, but how can this be normal?....

Did you ever play during Vanilla or TBC? Some dungeons took HOURS....... Scholomance? At least a 2-3 hour run if things went smoothly. This is perfectly normal. Unless you're a locust and just want to steamroll everything in 5 mins, which if you're leveling and aren't outgearing the dungeon, you shouldn't be able to do. Stop crying about every god damn thing you "think" is wrong, or not normal. Just enjoy the god damn game.

[Teri]

They feel long Because your gear isn't like 5x over the top + artifacts/relics/crucible/legendaries boosting everything even further which is Legion since like gear went over 900+

If you did Legion dungeons at 800 itemlevel they'd probably feel around the same (800 is what heirlooms cap out at).

Still, artifacts make people much more powerful, even just the added % damage, added % health alone from traits.

[Marrilaife]

Op in essence is upset that for example,
it takes longer for a level 45 ~135ilvl player to kill a normal mob tuned for ~135ilvl than it takes a level 110 950 ilvl player to kill an elite mob tuned for ~820 ilvl players simply because the mob has an elite tag.

I honestly cannot comprehend how people manage to sleep at night while this situation runs rampant in the game.

Or it's another thinly veiled complaint about how dungeons were easy before 7.3.5 but Blizzard made them less easy so people hate they can't zerg these anymore. I never found the appeal of dungeons being tuned around being doable by 1-2 people and the other 3-4 in the group are for decoration purposes. One reason why I cba with daily heroic despite some of my alts need legendaries. It's a joke. Despite being upscaled twice this expansion. The power creep was just too strong. On the other hand, if Blizzard made heroic dungeons downscale players like timewalking does, there would be much bigger uproar than we've seen in 7.2 when outdoor mob hp was supposed to scale with ilvl (which was nerfed shortly after due to that mass outrage).

[TOM_RUS]

Normal leveling dungeons were ok pre 7.3.5, 5-10 mins with good group. Not they takes ages and reward nothing. It's a stupid patch that ruined them completely. They should revert most of 7.3.5 changes: mob health increase, XP to level increase, dungeon XP nerf, heirlooms nerf. The only 7.3.5 thing that should stay is scaling with level. And then things will be back to normal.

[elgarta]

Have you not read what the issue is? Is the way the dungeons are called - normal dungeons.
When you see 2 difficulties - normal and heroic, which one should be harder?
There is no reason for normal dungeons to be more difficult than heroic dungeons. Yes, your gear while leveling sucks compared to the ability to outgear content, but that's exactly the issue.

You again compare a Cataclysm era dungeon to a legion era heroic. Its exactly like saying 5 mans are harder than raids if you compared Molten Core or Onyxia to say Blackrock Caverns or throne of the tides.

Cataclysm dungeons were designed to be more difficult, in response to wrath of the facerolls 5 man content. So of course it'll take longer, more trash, more than 10 pulls etc.

Last cata time walking I did, I had groups mess up on bosses in BRC. Heck, I even had leveling groups mess up a few months back. Still alot easier than it was at launch though, where Crowd Control was the name of the game.

[Xeranath]

I don't think you know what that word means. They aren't wrong; normals are harder and take longer than heroic dungeons do. They just wanted to know why, which is something I explained in my first post.

Oh come on, the OP's clearly being pedantic with semantics, with a dubious comparison which he duly ignores.

[Deleted]

Oh come on, the OP's clearly being pedantic with semantics, with a dubious comparison which he duly ignores.

I have no idea what those words mean...but if you see something else than a simple problem i think you might have a problem.

Some people said it's Cata dungeons being overtuned. I can live with that if that's the case. I did some MoP dungeons last night (Siege of Niuzao and Gate of the Setting Sun) and they felt indeed as normals should - i wasn't going full life to 20% every few seconds on trash packs as a tank.

[Nefarious Tea]

You probably should avoid WoW Classic when it comes out.

I'm inclined to agree. BRC used to take 3-4 hours, and that was a clean, well-oiled run.