Blizzard hotfixed several faster leveling routes tonight

[Marmot]

Why bother pulling a bandaid off before fixing the underlying problem? They could've just thrown out bandaids for everyone while they were working on solving the problem.
All i really want is something that gives me 3-5x xp gain until they fix the problem.

What exactly is the underlying problem?

[Marrilaife]

Blizz aint gonna put all transmog/mounts on 110/120 content (or the store) just because some people don't like old content. It's purely optional too, it's not like you must get heritage armor to play the game. If you want something, go get it, heritage armor even has 0% RNG attached as opposed to a lot of other transmog.

Yeah, I don't know, people flip their shit over heritage armor as if it was some form of "must have" holy grail. And yes, after grinding love rocket mount of 20 chars this year's event and not getting it again, I agree non-RNG grind is easier to stomach than full-on RNG grind. But that's the thing, there are many "optional" things in WOW that are too tedious for me to bother (for example "the insane" title, old world bosses mounts, warglaives from BT for demon hunter transmog and so forth), but I just don't bother. And I haven't seen so many complaints about other cosmetic-awarding content like the endless halls you have to navigate for the lucid nightmare, or pet battle dungeons, or anything which can also fall into category "time consuming, long, optional and awards only cosmetics". But when it comes to heritage armor, people are suddenly all up in arms. It's not about levelling, boosts, having another class at end game, or even new races. It's about 1 set of transmog they can't cheese their way through. When a player has to kill Garrosh 300 times for Tusks of Mannoroth and they might not even drop, there's no problem. Even though it's tedious and time consuming. Why heritage armor is subject to different standards? I've even heard people say "I'm not gonna use it anyway but I must have it in my collection". What's the logic in that?

[Kazuchika]

Glad they keep fixing this shit.
And fuck heirlooms, they never should have been in the game to begin with. Anyone that doesn't understand that has no idea what a mmo is about.

Man you must have just been seething over the last decade eh?

[draynay]

It's actually not, if you stay in Pandaria

Argh I can't think of anything worse, but I hate Pandaria.

[Eapoe]

Glad they keep fixing this shit.
And fuck heirlooms, they never should have been in the game to begin with. Anyone that doesn't understand that has no idea what a mmo is about.

This arguement is tired as heirlooms are for people that have played the RPG leveling aspect once and want to get alts to max level as fast as possible. That has nothing to do with being an mmo or not.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

This arguement is tired as heirlooms are for people that have played the RPG leveling aspect once and want to get alts to max level as fast as possible. That has nothing to do with being an mmo or not.

Minus when that demographic severally alters others game play that haven't. I know several very non-hardcore family members that play WoW and have been kicked from 5 mans because no heirlooms = lower damage = slower run. Or some level 20 runs though the field and one shots everything in a single moment while they were in questing area without a clue waiting 5 minutes for a respawn cycle as the same person goes at it again and clears the field in seconds again. A lot of the new systems have kind of fixed that.

XP gain should just be like a shirt. You put it on and if gives you 20-30% xp gain or something like that. No powerful evolving gear or anything. Leveling goes faster with the bonus, make it to where you got to level one character clean to max to get it (like just an achievement based reward), then you can choose to use it or not, but it keeps really strange over powered things from happening out in the world and in 5 mans as people level up.

[De Lupe]

In this thread, lazy players crying that they have to work for their rewards.

If you're idea of "fair" leveling is to sit AFK in a 110 zone milking exp off people, you need to play something that isn't WoW. You deserve every exp nerf the game throws at you because you are the reason they are happening in the first place.

Work for your shit, or don't bitch about it. 48 -72 hours is no where near too much work.

Spoken by someone about to level 16 characters in the near future for Tmog gear.

[Eapoe]

Minus when that demographic severally alters others game play that haven't. I know several very non-hardcore family members that play WoW and have been kicked from 5 mans because no heirlooms = lower damage = slower run. Or some level 20 runs though the field and one shots everything in a single moment while they were in questing area without a clue waiting 5 minutes for a respawn cycle as the same person goes at it again and clears the field in seconds again. A lot of the new systems have kind of fixed that.

XP gain should just be like a shirt. You put it on and if gives you 20-30% xp gain or something like that. No powerful evolving gear or anything. Leveling goes faster with the bonus, make it to where you got to level one character clean to max to get it (like just an achievement based reward), then you can choose to use it or not, but it keeps really strange over powered things from happening out in the world and in 5 mans as people level up.

Yeah, and I've known people who got kicked from dungeons with heirlooms simply because they were jerks or afk.
If your family got kicked from that it definitely sucks for them, but at the same time heirlooms were made to make leveling faster. That doesn't mean they are a terrible thing. The people that have kicked for that reason in the past could be considered terrible by some for what they did, but that's not the heirlooms but instead the people using them.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Yeah, and I've known people who got kicked from dungeons with heirlooms simply because they were jerks or afk.
If your family got kicked from that it definitely sucks for them, but at the same time heirlooms were made to make leveling faster. That doesn't mean they are a terrible thing. The people that have kicked for that reason in the past could be considered terrible by some for what they did, but that's not the heirlooms but instead the people using them.

I see reading is an issue here. Put on a shirt. Leveling is faster. GG.

[Eapoe]

In this thread, lazy players crying that they have to work for their rewards.

If you're idea of "fair" leveling is to sit AFK in a 110 zone milking exp off people, you need to play something that isn't WoW. You deserve every exp nerf the game throws at you because you are the reason they are happening in the first place.

Work for your shit, or don't bitch about it. 48 -72 hours is no where near too much work.

Spoken by someone about to level 16 characters in the near future for Tmog gear.

I think it's less about working for their reward as it is about work that doesn't need to have happened.
Say you've got a job doing data entry on a computer. You do your work, save it, print it out if necessary, give it to your boss and move on. Now, after working that job that way for years, your superiors decide that you no longer have that computer, and instead you need to hand write the basics on carbon copy paper, send the copy off, type it up on an old fashioned typewriter, go to the copier, attach the carbon copy original to the copy of the typed report, then seal it up and send it off thru interoffice mail.
It's the same result, but now you've added on more work than has been required the last few years. Never mind the fact it's not like it's a terrible waste of time compared to the old way, but you're doing more for the sake of what your supervisor deems the correct way.

[De Lupe]

I think it's less about working for their reward as it is about work that doesn't need to have happened.
Say you've got a job doing data entry on a computer. You do your work, save it, print it out if necessary, give it to your boss and move on. Now, after working that job that way for years, your superiors decide that you no longer have that computer, and instead you need to hand write the basics on carbon copy paper, send the copy off, type it up on an old fashioned typewriter, go to the copier, attach the carbon copy original to the copy of the typed report, then seal it up and send it off thru interoffice mail.
It's the same result, but now you've added on more work than has been required the last few years. Never mind the fact it's not like it's a terrible waste of time compared to the old way, but you're doing more for the sake of what your supervisor deems the correct way.

I would agree with this comparison, except the people whining are the ones who keep calling in sick to work then complain about their workload overwhelming them, so they layer multiple carbon papers on top of each other to make copy/pasting their work easier. And when the boss tells them to redo the work because it's wrong, they get angry about it.

If 48 hours of leveling is truly too much work for someone to space out over the course of a week, then they shouldn't play a game where leveling is such a vital aspect of the gameplay. People who live under the delusion that the only aspect of the game that matters is the end raids and that everything else should be skippable are the true virus of the game.

[Eapoe]

I would agree with this comparison, except the people whining are the ones who keep calling in sick to work then complain about their workload overwhelming them, so they layer multiple carbon papers on top of each other to make copy/pasting their work easier. And when the boss tells them to redo the work because it's wrong, they get angry about it.

If 48 hours of leveling is truly too much work for someone to space out over the course of a week, then they shouldn't play a game where leveling is such a vital aspect of the gameplay. People who live under the delusion that the only aspect of the game that matters is the end raids and that everything else should be skippable are the true virus of the game.

Kind of true, but keep in mind most of these people, possibly anyone with heirlooms, are people that have already leveled the slow way in the first place, possibly even on multiple alts.
Just as a reference, I had 3 characters at max level in Cata without heirlooms. For me, the purpose was the endgame. Getting to raids, dungeons, and random other things I could do at max level with new characters. When heirlooms came out, it was a personal blessing as it allowed me to power level new characters and get to what I really wanted to do. I'd already experienced leveling the way it was meant, and in my case it was 3 times. One of which was on the opposite faction.
To have those taken away and missing that huge QoL improvement they bring is a terrible feeling. Before the nerf, people had a choice to level with or without them. Even after scaling Blizz could have just left them the same for people that don't want to have to go then that process all over again.
I think most people's problem is that choice is gone now. If Blizz had gone with scaling and increased mob health and the dungeon changes, but left heirlooms alone, I don't think many people would care as much. They would still have choice to level fast or slow and experience what they want.

[Deleted]

If I was a new player I'd say NO THANKS to doing ONE-HUNDRED-TEN-LEVELS. Are you kidding me? Good thing Blizzard has that max level boost just calling for new players to pull out their CC.

Great, noone cares. Fact is most people like rpgs because its about character development and leveling it up. Thats what they want. Not my problem that you are lazy, seriously. "i wanna free 110" is not an argument " i done it before" is not an argument, "its boring to me" is not an argument. The reason you did it a few times already is because its too easy, i bet you wouldnt reach 60 in the good old days. And it being boring to you is purely subjective. go play something else then, i actually want to play the game and level characters and i have all classes leveled on horde side and half on alliance. this is an RPG and if you dont like that you can go play your simple console button mashers. I dont even care if you key in a cheat and skip to the last boss there, have at it horse... just dont screw with other peoples hobby because you are impatient and cant appreciate the simulation of a fantasy world full of adventure that blizzard painstakingly put together for you. To buy a game and then want to skip almost all of it is the dumbest thing i ever heard.

Fact is you dont have to touch leveling once because you already have a character at max level you just want more of them for free and thats it. And to new players its all new and they want to play it. You have no ragument you are just a selfish lazy person.

[SkyTides]

On a side note, I thought the scaling dungeons would mean plenty of quick queues. Before the change, lowbie dungeons like wailing caverns, deadmines etc would pop within 5 mins as a DPS.
I'm currently at level 74,and DPS queues have consistently been at least 25 mins +. That includes Random X Dungeon, and queuing for multiple specific dungeons. Not sure if its because so many people are leveling allied race DPS classes?

[ToxicFlame]

What exactly is the underlying problem?

from another thread:

How about we go fixing the actual problem (only my opinion) that is the ancient leveling system and the busted spec mechanics at low level.
Like how the only things mobs do is either a variation of slapping you across the face or cast a SINGLE spell at you. Or dungeon bosses that have either no mechanics at all or very basic ones that can be ignored until you get to WoD and to some degree MoP.
Like how quests are a single page of text.
Like how you have to walk across a zone from questhub to the quest and then you have to backtrack all the way back to the questhub like 10 times per level. On top of that you can't just afk run to where you need to go because god forbid you encounter a mob on the way during the first 58 levels, potentially longer, that is gonna chain-daze you.
Or how you do not interect with ANYONE or anything at all, like, ever.
Or how atm you basically have 1 option to level efficiently, which is questing 2 if you are willing to take longer.
All that while looking at mostly the same animations we've been looking at ever since Wow. (I know blizzard can do some amazing ones by now, looking at whirlwind, Lavaburst or the new green-black bolts from warlocks? i've seen from BfA vids)
How about repairing a lot of the specs that are just awful at low levels and use only something like 10% of the spells.
How about not getting any talents and spells or really anything worthwhile for 5+ levels at a time and after 80 for the most part you only get 2 talents and a spell from Artifact weapons once you hit 98 i believe.

There's so many things that should have been done to fix the leveling experience after releasing level scaling but before making ANY changes to the time it takes to get to cap (be it increasing mob hp, nerfing heirlooms, etc.)

- - - Updated - - -

If 48 hours of leveling is truly too much work for someone to space out over the course of a week, then they shouldn't play a game where leveling is such a vital aspect of the gameplay. People who live under the delusion that the only aspect of the game that matters is the end raids and that everything else should be skippable are the true virus of the game.

It is not a vital aspect of the game, it's minuscule for anyone that actually invests time in end game content. On my mage that i leveled for legion but only started maining during NH 48 hours is a tenth of my /played and i was unsubbed for 3 or 4 months total during legion due to exams.

[Haywire5714]

On a side note, I thought the scaling dungeons would mean plenty of quick queues. Before the change, lowbie dungeons like wailing caverns, deadmines etc would pop within 5 mins as a DPS.
I'm currently at level 74,and DPS queues have consistently been at least 25 mins +. That includes Random X Dungeon, and queuing for multiple specific dungeons. Not sure if its because so many people are leveling allied race DPS classes?

This is the main reason I'm unsubscribed right now. My preference is dungeon grinding to level, but the que times for tank, healer and dps are so much higher than they were before. I assume it's because xp is not rewarding enough and the dungeons are too punishing for tank and healer.

I enjoy doing the dungeons now for sure, but if I can't que for them in a reasonable amount of time how am I supposed to enjoy the game?

[Mister Cheese]

On a side note, I thought the scaling dungeons would mean plenty of quick queues. Before the change, lowbie dungeons like wailing caverns, deadmines etc would pop within 5 mins as a DPS.
I'm currently at level 74,and DPS queues have consistently been at least 25 mins +. That includes Random X Dungeon, and queuing for multiple specific dungeons. Not sure if its because so many people are leveling allied race DPS classes?

Even with this they're still trying to match you with people that are your level I have noticed. Never had someone who was more than 10 levels apart from me while I was leveling in a dungeon so far. And I never got into a dungeon too far from my level. So I never did Wailing Caverns as a 57. Was always doing Blackrock Depths.

[Count Zero]

Glad they keep fixing this shit.
And fuck heirlooms, they never should have been in the game to begin with. Anyone that doesn't understand that has no idea what a mmo is about.

I think there's a large middleground where people can both want for exploits to be fixed but also think heirlooms - for people who already have a max level character - are fine.

[SirCowdog]

Well, dunno about seething, but yea it was a bad decision that depreciated the value of the games content.


Oh hey ... I don't disagree with you about not necessarily wanting to do the grind all over again. But, heirlooms were a bad answer. Blizz should have left the levelling experience intact and simply introduced some other means of allowing players to level quickly if they've already done the full leveling experience. Heirlooms destroyed the integrity of the original experience. Perhaps they could have created an express levelling route with unique questing built with the faster xp in mind, separate from the core experience.

I actually think that the scaling tech they have available now finally opens the door for them to correctly "fix" the leveling process. They just need to invest a little more time and effort smoothing it out and tuning it.

But you hit the nail on the head with heirlooms. They're an older mechanic that needs to be updated. There have been a number of good suggestions, but really it needs to be based on time the player has already invested instead of just gold.

I personally think it should be based on a Pathfinder-like unlock where you get a % bonus based on how many loremaster achievements your account has. And then the bonus activates via a toy in your collection. There should be no direct power increase via gear, just more experience points. Hell, even better, make it work exactly like the monk rested bonus each day, just with more rested exp based on how many loremaster completions you have.

This way players get rewarded based on their actual progress instead of just throwing gold at an OP heirloom. Scaling ensures players of all levels can intermingle without any advantage or detrimental effect. Players who have "Been there, done that" level up more quickly, but can still choose not to use it if they want.

[Deleted]

Glad they keep fixing this shit.
And fuck heirlooms, they never should have been in the game to begin with. Anyone that doesn't understand that has no idea what a mmo is about.

MMO's are about end game content, not about leveling, seems that you don't even know what it's about yourself.

And yes, I've got 13x 110 and 4x100 chars, so I've done my fair share of leveling.