Out of control! Antorus normal be 945 and ahead of the curve Antorus or no invite

[Deleted]

Honestly, this isn't the problem the OP is making it out to be. Yes, there are those groups, but I've also pugged a TON of Argus on my alts that are well under 945. I ran it again the other day on a 932 alt, so its not even like this is more of a problem today than when this was posted. The group finder is full of runs to choose from. If you don't meet the requirements for a posted run, apply to a different one, or form your own group.

Yes this is not a problem anymore. As the level increased, grinders now prefer heroic zerg run. So the supply of normal pug overleveled is decreased, and things got a bit more leveled.

[Jalatiphra]

i do antorus normal with required item level of 960
i want to be through there in 1,5 hours and i expect that this is not going to happen with 920-950

[Softbottom]

i do antorus normal with required item level of 960
i want to be through there in 1,5 hours and i expect that this is not going to happen with 920-950

pretty much this. There is no point to taking 920 people when it's raining 960+ people who want speed clears.

[ID811717]

pretty much this. There is no point to taking 920 people when it's raining 960+ people who want speed clears.

Yeah, go 2-2-26 and invite 950+ players -- with curve -- for a really fast normal clear. It's a fun experience.
I'm not sure why would people bother still farming normal at this point though, it's no longer a good time investment for active players.

[nocturnus]

Ok guys, this is just first week or raid.

It feels like WoW = ilvl. Nothing more.

Something must be made by Blizzard to fix this problem. If you play one char, you probable don't have it, but if you play more, this is unacceptable.

Is not the first time when happens, this problem persist.

I understand your frustration but the underlying reason lies quite a bit deeper than ilvl. It's enjoyment, or lack thereof.

Allow me to explain: People generally don't enjoy raiding after having already done it a few times. They only endure the grind because they "need" a particular item. This means they do not want to spend a minute longer than necessary in the instance, which is understandable.

But you know, greed is what all MMOs are based on; it's the only way to keep people repeating content they do not enjoy out of greed.

[Pallamouna]

Dear blizz remove the curwa and ilvl and everything will be fine

[nocturnus]

Dear blizz remove the curwa and ilvl and everything will be fine

This issue is as old as the game, so no, removing those won't solve anything.

[Grevmak]

This has been going on ever since Wrath of the Lich King and the rise of being able to skip content via doing stuff that isn't the prior raid - meaning all raids are irrelevant but the most current one - and obviously since Gearscore. The name changed, the game stayed the same.

Also removing the achievement and ilvl will just result in people wanting you to link something else, like an itemdrop from Argus, or they'll check the armory which shows the kill of the boss. Making this info unavailable will just result in 3rd party programs.

Your only choice is making your own group or searching for like-minded people in a guild. State that you're a learning group, done.

[Wries]

I armory people for my pugs. Ilvl (within reasonable limits) is secondary to having previous kills and also if they have cared to gem and enchant their gear or not. If they don't have enchants, obviously they don't care over their own performance much and thus likely will be terrible.

[anzay]

I don't really have an issue with those "crazy" requirements. I'm more bothered when i see that the person that started that kind of group generally wouldn't qualify to join its own group. 75%+ of the aotc groups i've seen were started by someone who doesn't have aotc. Same with the ilvl requirements. people hardly use the ilvl textbox when making a group because you cant put a ilvl higher than yours in there; so people put the ilvl requirement in the description.

I don't mind high requirements when everybody in the group actually meets them. most people asking for ridiculous requirements are looking to get carried trying to look tough and "elite"

[kamuimac]

I don't mind high requirements when everybody in the group actually meets them. most people asking for ridiculous requirements are looking to get carried trying to look tough and "elite"

As irritating as it is, what do people expect? either make your own group or satisfy others demands.

clearly those people are making those groups for themselves

[Battlebeard]

This issue is as old as the game, so no, removing those won't solve anything.

It would solve a lot! It would require those crazy picky leaders to research a lot, to a degree that most wouldn't bother with. Instead, people who communicated a lot and explained that they are good raiders would get a chance to raid and prove themselves.

It would be ALOT more effort to create a group, but more fair and less toxic overwall. Amazing 920 players would get invited cause their ilvl wouldn't be on display. And that is a good thing.

[Deleted]

It would solve a lot! It would require those crazy picky leaders to research a lot, to a degree that most wouldn't bother with. Instead, people who communicated a lot and explained that they are good raiders would get a chance to raid and prove themselves.

It would be ALOT more effort to create a group, but more fair and less toxic overwall. Amazing 920 players would get invited cause their ilvl wouldn't be on display. And that is a good thing.

If people can't put their pug together in a fast and easy way, the wouldn't start communicating. It would go back to guilds and no pugs. And the most toxic times in this games were classic, where players who died 22 secs into the boss fight were known across the server and never invited into a pug. But lets give it a try. Explain to me why you are good. There are forbidden words:
-itemlevel (because you don't like it)
-curve of the current raid (because you don't like it)
-DPS (because you don't like it)
-cutting edge in HfC, SoO, DS (because too much time to get it)
-i don't die on encounters (because that would be a lie).

Then remember that a lot of people apply and the fuller the group gets, the more people apply for a fast start, so no wall of text. So how would you convince me. I tell you how I get into groups (we are a group of 3 applying).
"All 3 of use have 20+ clears on multiple chars, 3x pantheon, can do pods/CC/grips and respecc". That macro gets us into the 965+ rush groups quite easy. Around two hours later we are done. But none of that matches you.

And to be honest: an amazing 920 player will die to double/triple adds on aggramar, while the bad 970 player can survive it and continue doing his job. Amazing 920 players are great for guilds, because you gear them fast and have an amazing 970 player. But for pugs stamina on gear is a lot more valuable to compensate fails then skill.

[Battlebeard]

If people can't put their pug together in a fast and easy way, the wouldn't start communicating. It would go back to guilds and no pugs. And the most toxic times in this games were classic, where players who died 22 secs into the boss fight were known across the server and never invited into a pug. But lets give it a try. Explain to me why you are good. There are forbidden words:
-itemlevel (because you don't like it)
-curve of the current raid (because you don't like it)
-DPS (because you don't like it)
-cutting edge in HfC, SoO, DS (because too much time to get it)
-i don't die on encounters (because that would be a lie).

Then remember that a lot of people apply and the fuller the group gets, the more people apply for a fast start, so no wall of text. So how would you convince me. I tell you how I get into groups (we are a group of 3 applying).
"All 3 of use have 20+ clears on multiple chars, 3x pantheon, can do pods/CC/grips and respecc". That macro gets us into the 965+ rush groups quite easy. Around two hours later we are done. But none of that matches you.

And to be honest: an amazing 920 player will die to double/triple adds on aggramar, while the bad 970 player can survive it and continue doing his job. Amazing 920 players are great for guilds, because you gear them fast and have an amazing 970 player. But for pugs stamina on gear is a lot more valuable to compensate fails then skill.

I can't use your exact formula, but if we go back to current WoW, whenever I try to apply to a raid, before having curve and desired gear, I try this line:

"Hi, do you need a good Rogue? Got decent gear and doing more DPS than my ilvl suggest. Ex-hardcore raider, played Rogue 12+ years and cleared many previous Mythic raids, used to hard figths. I know tactics for this raid from videos and various streams and I'm usually flawless on mechanics. Give me a try, I promise 0 mistakes and that you won't regret inviting me"

This is why I try with over and over, and if someone had whispered this to me, I would have invited without hesitating. Shouldn't this be enough?

So yeah, anything to get away from "link achiv + ilvl" is needed.

[Deleted]

I can't use your exact formula, but if we go back to current WoW, whenever I try to apply to a raid, before having curve and desired gear, I try this line:

"Hi, do you need a good Rogue? Got decent gear and doing more DPS than my ilvl suggest. Ex-hardcore raider, played Rogue 12+ years and cleared many previous Mythic raids, used to hard figths. I know tactics for this raid from videos and various streams and I'm usually flawless on mechanics. Give me a try, I promise 0 mistakes and that you won't regret inviting me"

This is why I try with over and over, and if someone had whispered this to me, I would have invited without hesitating. Shouldn't this be enough?

So yeah, anything to get away from "link achiv + ilvl" is needed.

Italic part = too much. No one believes that -> I am not convinced yet
Bold part = 47 seconds after i read it, i saw

0.00s Battlebeard dies from F'harg's Molten Flare
-0.02s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 175627 (A: 1376840) (O: 67345)
-0.03s Battlebeard's Cheating Death fades from Battlebeard
-0.03s Battlebeard's Cheat Death absorbs 1376840 damage of F'harg's Molten Flare on Battlebeard
-0.03s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 233688 (A: 1324226)
-0.03s Battlebeard's Cheat Death absorbs 1324226 damage of F'harg's Molten Flare on Battlebeard
-0.30s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 983627 (A: 516767)
-0.31s Battlebeard's Cheat Death absorbs 516767 damage of F'harg's Molten Flare on Battlebeard

0.00s Battlebeard dies from F'harg's Molten Flare
0.00s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 574859 (O: 169142)
-0.11s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 723525
-0.33s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 710614
-0.38s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 764613
-0.38s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 700414
-0.64s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 704282
-0.64s F'harg Molten Flare Battlebeard 756041

tow clicks later:

0.00s Battlebeard dies from Aggramar's Wake of Flame
-0.01s Aggramar Wake of Flame Battlebeard Tick 242018 (O: 609403)

took me less than 60 seconds to know you are bad at dodging shit. But congrats on surviving fel hounds on your third logged try! You are improving. Next time do this and parse higher than a 24 item level bracket

Underlined part =

Best Perf. Avg 40.5

You item level must be really bad, if 40,5 average are above your item level DPS. lets check enoar (your best rating). Thats a 92, thats good. High command is decent. All others are bad (varimathras 28 ilevel). So basically you bring AoE/pad DPS and no ST damage.

Took me less than two minutes to detect two lies and know you are trying way to hard. Why? Because its easy to do and thats why people who run the fast groups to it. If I can't check it, it is most likely that you will be removed around hasabel, latest I give you in a rush group (you said that is what you are looking for in an earlier post) is kin.

Your big advantage is the big, anonymous LFD tool. With a classic like community (everyone knows you on your server) you wouldn't find any pugs.

[Battlebeard]

Italic part = too much. No one believes that -> I am not convinced yet
Bold part = 47 seconds after i read it, i saw





tow clicks later:


took me less than 60 seconds to know you are bad at dodging shit. But congrats on surviving fel hounds on your third logged try! You are improving. Next time do this and parse higher than a 24 item level bracket

Underlined part =

You item level must be really bad, if 40,5 average are above your item level DPS. lets check enoar (your best rating). Thats a 92, thats good. High command is decent. All others are bad (varimathras 28 ilevel). So basically you bring AoE/pad DPS and no ST damage.

Took me less than two minutes to detect two lies and know you are trying way to hard. Why? Because its easy to do and thats why people who run the fast groups to it. If I can't check it, it is most likely that you will be removed around hasabel, latest I give you in a rush group (you said that is what you are looking for in an earlier post) is kin.

Your big advantage is the big, anonymous LFD tool. With a classic like community (everyone knows you on your server) you wouldn't find any pugs.

It's ALOT of a difference when one tries and when one slacks. And this is just the point I am trying to prove. These logs are bad cause I didn't play good that particular raid. I was most likely in Hearthstone or other games tabbed with these kills, which I am alot. This raid bores me to tears and I have found chill groups that don't care if one dies or slack. Like, I am very aware of the dog slack, I stand still, don't move an inch and dps, while tabbing between hearthstone, and use cloak when I can, hoping the healers deal with my slack meanwhile, they didn't, and I died.

Yes, this is a shitty attitude and people may dislike this, but like I said, I don't like this raid and I don't care much about the kills, nor am I trying to prove anything.

BUT!!!

If I wanted, If I truly tried, if I needed to perform, I am quite capeable of doing so, and recently, I cleared all of the raid, performing quite good and winning lots of Single target fights. OF COURSE, just like my normal luck, No one logged THAT one.... so I'm stuck with the horrible slack logs.

Yes, people might not want a slacker like me, BUT again, I don't always slack and what I CAN do should matter more than what I did in some run I was semi afk in.

A clear example is Garothi, it shows on logs my best attempt was 1,6mil dps. Yesterday, I killed him, with 1,9mil dps, and that was not logged. So yeah, this is crazy frustrating.

[Deleted]

Your big advantage is the big, anonymous LFD tool. With a classic like community (everyone knows you on your server) you wouldn't find any pugs.

Props to you for trying to discuss anything with the guy who proved more often than not, that it's unreasonable to discuss anything with him

[Deleted]

It's ALOT of a difference when one tries and when one slacks. And this is just the point I am trying to prove. These logs are bad cause I didn't play good that particular raid. I was most likely in Hearthstone or other games tabbed with these kills, which I am alot. This raid bores me to tears and I have found chill groups that don't care if one dies or slack. Like, I am very aware of the dog slack, I stand still, don't move an inch and dps, while tabbing between hearthstone, and use cloak when I can, hoping the healers deal with my slack meanwhile, they didn't, and I died.

Yes, this is a shitty attitude and people may dislike this, but like I said, I don't like this raid and I don't care much about the kills, nor am I trying to prove anything.

BUT!!!

If I wanted, If I truly tried, if I needed to perform, I am quite capeable of doing so, and recently, I cleared all of the raid, performing quite good and winning lots of Single target fights. OF COURSE, just like my normal luck, No one logged THAT one.... so I'm stuck with the horrible slack logs.

Yes, people might not want a slacker like me, BUT again, I don't always slack and what I CAN do should matter more than what I did in some run I was semi afk in.

A clear example is Garothi, it shows on logs my best attempt was 1,6mil dps. Yesterday, I killed him, with 1,9mil dps, and that was not logged. So yeah, this is crazy frustrating.

OK, I bet you two tokens that you can't get 95% on all bosses until sunday. Unlimited trys. Thats 600k gold right there. WCL has a quick guide how to log, so no excuses.
@Garothi: i don't care about normal tunnel logs if i build a HC group. Your best attempt there is from yesterday at 1,66mil DPS or 49% (so pretty average). Sadly you ditched that pug after hounds. But I agree, alt runs where people won't remove me if I slack are way more comfortable.

[Yhcti]

I always seem to come top 5 on my Hunter and that's with ilvl 922, a lot of the high lvls guys are just that, high ilvl, little skill/knowledge of their spec.

[nocturnus]

It would solve a lot! It would require those crazy picky leaders to research a lot, to a degree that most wouldn't bother with. Instead, people who communicated a lot and explained that they are good raiders would get a chance to raid and prove themselves.

It would be ALOT more effort to create a group, but more fair and less toxic overwall. Amazing 920 players would get invited cause their ilvl wouldn't be on display. And that is a good thing.

We had a simple tool to check it all in TBC, so no mate, while I get where you're coming from, it won't solve anything.

The only solution is to make content fun and not something people want to get out of the way as soon as possible.