Would JRPGs appeal more to Western audiences if they had older protagonists?

[unholytestament]

I would be a lot more happy about being able to tell what gender the main characters are before they open their mouths.. which even then, at times, could be hard to figure out. ;_: So making them older would definitely help.

Sounds like an argument in favor of JRPGs with how mannish women are looking in western RPGs these days.

[Lorianus]

What turns me off is that they all to often fall into anime tropes (i dont like anime/manga), like there is often a brooding edgy guy like Squall in FF8 or Cloud in FF7, the cute girl who is super into the main protagonist, the older male/female mentor who dies halfway through the game, a furry/animal sidekick/party character ect.

Also the redicolous artstyle/imagery, like there is allways in every scene wind blowing with 50+ km/h so that their edgy hairstyles/capes flow in every scene ever, and the over tthe top emotions like when something bad happens i.e death/relationship wise with your party its this over the top mourning/feeling sad for like the next hour of gameplay.

Well i guess the reason i dont play JRPGS is that i cannot get into the obsession with japanese culture/anime.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I liked them more when it was heavily turn based and I could figure out how to game the systems. Battles were a lot less key smashy. I know it was simpler game play to learn but to ultra master took a lot of creativity. I get that grinding sucked a bit but a lot of games struck a good balance of gaining levels naturally though progress as long as you didnt always flee.

[Aeula]

It’s still anime-looking. So no.

[Cyanu]

my problem is aesthetics so no

what i dislike about jrpgs?

-all major character are ridiculously pretty, with angelic faces, gigantic eyes, tiny noses etc

-female characters are ridiculous in general ( size 0 with gigantic breasts, bikini plate armor, trying way too hard to be 'sexy' even when it's totally uncalled for and usually it's a 15year old's definition of 'sexy')

-combat animations are way too acrobatic even for heavy weapons even for weak attacks, way too many oriental martial arts influence, too flashy

-they tend to be considerably less realistic in all their aspects (especially physics) than their western counterparts which i already consider a compromise for my tastes

-usually their stories are lackluster

[Sorrior]

2 million is a crazy amount for the team size and marketing budget of the game, not sure what bs you're trying to claim.

The fact you're trying to compare it to games that have marketing budgets reaching $50-100 mil is laughable. It's the most successful game in Atlus history and made them a lot of money.

The sooner you stop thinking every game should be some AAA blockbuster doing 10s of millions of sales the sooner you have reality in the gaming industry.

Also skyrim has been released HOW MANY TIMES LETS COUNT

Ps4

Xbox one

Switch

Pc

Ps3

Xbox360

Pc

Skyrim special edition on

Ps4

Xbox one

Pc

That is ALOT of sales and i may have missed a few versions

Then diablo

Ps3

360

Pc

Ps4

Xbox one

They are both beyond multiplat they are multi gen too AND made with the intent to sell millions

[Tech614]

snip

Yep, and Persona 5 has no PC sales, No Switch sales and No Xbox sales.

Almost all of it's sales where on PS4 with a small portion being PS3. Dunno how much xbox would impact things tbh but pretty confidant if it had a Switch and PC release it's sales numbers would double the sales total if not more.

It's crazy talk to act like 2 mil sales within 1 week of western release only on a single platform is in anyway "bad" for a niche JP developer with an almost non existent western marketing budget. It's actually extraordinary.

Persona 5 already made them a profit the launch week in Japan, which if I'm not mistaken was around 400-500k sales only. Games like this are made to make a profit on domestic sales alone. The western sales where literally just A LOT of extra bankroll for them as localization doesn't cost much at all in the face of an extra 1.5 mil sales.

[StrawberryZebra]

Honestly i wouldn't mind a game where you play a jaded burnt out vet who gets roped into an adventure and from his younger companions and the adventure itself gets in touch with his old self. Allowing that spark he once had to return and becoming far stronger for it(wisdom of age tenacity of youth mixed basically especially in a world with magic)

Such characters in an RPG would suffocate their companions though. Having a character that's already been there and done that in the lead role simply means they go back there and do it again - It's routene for them. They'd simply have the answer for pretty much all the problems the party faced and, since they're the protagonist and we're seeing the story through their eyes, would overcome those challenges with little effort. It completely stiffels the growth arcs of the other characters and removes a lot of the narrative stakes.

Imagine if in Lord of the Rings at the council of Rivendell where they're deciding what to do with the ring and Gandalf stands up and says "It's cool guys, I got this shit!", then procedes to fly to Mordor on an Eagle and chucks the ring into Mount Doom. Sure, it's an infinately more practical solution, but it makes for a poor story. Aragorn would have never become the King of Gondor, Frodo would have never had to struggle more than deciding what he wanted for Brunch and poor Samwise Gamgee would have never had the courage to marry and would have probably died alone.

It's why Gandalf is more suited towards a mentor role, guiding the younger characters in their personal story arcs than imposing his own arc over the story. He's not a worse character because of it, quite the opposite in fact, but he doesn't destroy the narative entirely in a mentor role like he would in a leading role.

That's not to say veteran characters can't be successful protagonists - Look at the likes of Solid Snake, Sam Fisher and Garrett. They're all good protagonists on their own merits, but the stories they're in aren't about their personal growth and are about them exerting their influence on the world.

[Sorrior]

Such characters in an RPG would suffocate their companions though. Having a character that's already been there and done that in the lead role simply means they go back there and do it again - It's routene for them. They'd simply have the answer for pretty much all the problems the party faced and, since they're the protagonist and we're seeing the story through their eyes, would overcome those challenges with little effort. It completely stiffels the growth arcs of the other characters and removes a lot of the narrative stakes.

Imagine if in Lord of the Rings at the council of Rivendell where they're deciding what to do with the ring and Gandalf stands up and says "It's cool guys, I got this shit!", then procedes to fly to Mordor on an Eagle and chucks the ring into Mount Doom. Sure, it's an infinately more practical solution, but it makes for a poor story. Aragorn would have never become the King of Gondor, Frodo would have never had to struggle more than deciding what he wanted for Brunch and poor Samwise Gamgee would have never had the courage to marry and would have probably died alone.

It's why Gandalf is more suited towards a mentor role, guiding the younger characters in their personal story arcs than imposing his own arc over the story. He's not a worse character because of it, quite the opposite in fact, but he doesn't destroy the narative entirely in a mentor role like he would in a leading role.

That's not to say veteran characters can't be successful protagonists - Look at the likes of Solid Snake, Sam Fisher and Garrett. They're all good protagonists on their own merits, but the stories they're in aren't about their personal growth and are about them exerting their influence on the world.

Nah i mean the burnt out in a bar cause life fucked them over good and hard kind not the wise sage kind.

He's old grizzled probably been in a few wars and is dissilusioned with most everything and everyone.

Not the i have been the hero before or am a demigod/fount of wisdom type.

[Sigxy]

Sounds like an argument in favor of JRPGs with how mannish women are looking in western RPGs these days.

I don't know, my problem is that everyone tends to look very feminine. Been quite a few times where I go "Oh, wow, this chick is pretty darn aweso--- that's a duuuude...?"

[Ausr]

I don't know, my problem is that everyone tends to look very feminine. Been quite a few times where I go "Oh, wow, this chick is pretty darn aweso--- that's a duuuude...?"

That's what kinda happened to me when I got my Radiant Historia game and art book. The two npcs who I thought where female twins in the DS version are actually male and female.

[StrawberryZebra]

Nah i mean the burnt out in a bar cause life fucked them over good and hard kind not the wise sage kind.

He's old grizzled probably been in a few wars and is dissilusioned with most everything and everyone.

Not the i have been the hero before or am a demigod/fount of wisdom type.

The main issue with grizzled old veteran characters, as RPG protagonists, is that they've got very little room to grow. If they've already fought a couple of wars, the stress of combat is routene for them. We don't get to see what effect it's having on them because it's already changed and shaped them into the character they are. More war is just another day at the office for them.

For a good example, take Auron from FFX. He remains largely unchanged by the events of the story. We do get some insights into his backstory and how his pilgrimage with Jecht and Braska changed him to the character he is now, however journeying with Yuna and Tidus has little further effect on his characters growth. He's all grown up already if you will. The younger characters who haven't already completed their pilgrimage are changed profoundly by it and you see them have some real character growth as a result of it.

The protagonist being "all grown up" at the outset of the story leaves them in a place where they're trying to exert themselves on the world to achieve their goals. From a story telling perspective that's totally fine, but as a video game it ultimately ends up as a Power Fantasy. Games focused around Power Fantasies are completely fine too - They're just not RPG's.

[Katchii]

2 million is a crazy amount for the team size and marketing budget of the game, not sure what bs you're trying to claim.

The fact you're trying to compare it to games that have marketing budgets reaching $50-100 mil is laughable. It's the most successful game in Atlus history and made them a lot of money.

The sooner you stop thinking every game should be some AAA blockbuster doing 10s of millions of sales the sooner you have reality in the gaming industry.

You're trying to conflate my argument with me saying the game did badly. I never said that.

You're also putting words in my mouth with saying every game should be AAA. I never said that either.

I'll concede that for a small company 2 million is good and stop there, except to say that I think Persona 5 is a great game because I'm not doing a good job articulating what I'm actually trying to say and it's also not really worth it to me to keep going.

[Pony Soldier]

Age doesn't really matter to me it's when they overdo it with the weeby shit. Like Xenoblade 2, it's like playing some weeby anime where there are 10 year old half naked girls and furries doing their cutesy poses and shit. It's a complete turn off when I see that. This isn't saying I don't like anime or the art style of it but just keep the weeby shit out of it and just make a serious game.

[Katchii]

Jesus dude thats going full EA shareholder with that thinking. If a game makes millions and makes back its profit hundreds of times over thats all it needs to do. Move onto the next game. You want big sales numbers look at shit like Destiny 2 designed for it. You only get bland white noise games designed for so many people it doesnt know what audience it is aiming for and then very quickly it dies. Not every game needs AAA western 'to please the shareholders' numbers designed for year over year profit increases.

I don't want every game to be AAA and become EA-ish because as you stated, when stuff like that happens the game loses it's charm because it loses everything that makes it unique.

Just meant to say that there are charming unique games that have performed better in sales than Persona 5, and IMO, some of those just have more characteristics that "western" audiences enjoy. I'll concede that many of those had a bigger marketing budget, yada yada yada.

I'll leave it at that, and as I said, I think Persona 5 is great as it is.

[valax]

Would protagonists like these



appeal more to Western audiences than teenagers?


Not to knock on P5! I loved those characters! Ryuji Sakamoto was a riot! But I have to ask would a JRPG sell better in the West in the protagonists were militaristic and had real time combat like Kingdom Hearts and was M rated?

But then that would probably be Mass Effect or Dragon Age in anime garb wouldn’t it?

Should a Japanese company make something like that?

JRPGs like FF 1 to 10 have made history but somehow even for me that I love those games (mostly 7-8-9) going back to it is ...hard.
Maybe it's a burnout since I already know story and places very well , but today's me would ragequit after spending 10 minutes going from point A to point B with those combat screen loading in and out every 10 or less steps .
They were great for their time , but since then the game industry has moved a lot forward to a point that turn based combat systems seem very underwhelming and slow.
Not saying these games lack a playerbase , only that gaming companies today care more about making a game that sells , rather than a game that they think is cool.
It's not uncommon when speaking to other gamers to find people who never ever played a FF or a jrpg in general and honestly I wouldn't expect them to like it if I showed them , because objectively it's not interesting anymore .

Regarding the western look I don't know of many worldwide selling games that had heavily asian characterized protagonists , I actually find it kinda strange they choose often to make them look western, instead of asian

[Remilia]

Seeing the replies in this thread really just says it's pointless trying to appeal to a broader western market especially with stereotypes thrown around making it even more pointless. Easiest to destroy a game is alienating core demographics in the hopes of getting new audiences that probably wouldn't even buy it anyways or stick around. Bravely Default was an eye opener (well... sort of) for SQEX. Just let the devs develop for their audience. It's better for business consistency than it is to gamble on new people and retaining them also.

[Velshin]

Seeing the replies in this thread really just says it's pointless trying to appeal to a broader western market especially with stereotypes thrown around making it even more pointless. Easiest to destroy a game is alienating core demographics in the hopes of getting new audiences that probably wouldn't even buy it anyways or stick around. Bravely Default was an eye opener (well... sort of) for SQEX. Just let the devs develop for their audience. It's better for business consistency than it is to gamble on new people and retaining them also.

Exactly I agree 100%. Which is why FF series degraded over the years because it changed it's core and tried to appeal and attract new audience. This is why I still love Legend of Heroes series and Tales series because they stick of what they are good at and keep mastering it instead of changing the culture and the core to appeal new audience.

[Sorrior]

The main issue with grizzled old veteran characters, as RPG protagonists, is that they've got very little room to grow. If they've already fought a couple of wars, the stress of combat is routene for them. We don't get to see what effect it's having on them because it's already changed and shaped them into the character they are. More war is just another day at the office for them.

For a good example, take Auron from FFX. He remains largely unchanged by the events of the story. We do get some insights into his backstory and how his pilgrimage with Jecht and Braska changed him to the character he is now, however journeying with Yuna and Tidus has little further effect on his characters growth. He's all grown up already if you will. The younger characters who haven't already completed their pilgrimage are changed profoundly by it and you see them have some real character growth as a result of it.

The protagonist being "all grown up" at the outset of the story leaves them in a place where they're trying to exert themselves on the world to achieve their goals. From a story telling perspective that's totally fine, but as a video game it ultimately ends up as a Power Fantasy. Games focused around Power Fantasies are completely fine too - They're just not RPG's.

Ahh i see

Yeah i mean a different kind of character/arc. You ARE right it would not work with the classic arc orrrr someone who is as you put it exerting themselves on the world

I mean one who is broken and damaged who has given up on life and the world. A story where he comes to regain a more youthful optimistic outlook or just comes to regain a bit of his old self instead of drowning in nothing but booze and maybe women.

In essence he starts as an insanely damaged main character instead of being exposed to messed up shit and recovering or finding himself right after.

I dunno if you ever lost your sense of self or inner fire but it does happen and it CAN be regained so a story about that would possibly resonate very well with some.

[Dispraise]

One reason I don't like JRPGs is, by and large, the visual design. I just am not a fan of the anime graphics.

There are other concerns as well, but the age of the protagonist really isn't one of them.