Draenor Orcs over Mag'har Orcs

[Trassk]

Blizzards throwing us some red herrings on what they will be. The gorgrond map, the mag'har wolf, ian whatshisface saying some vague shit, all pretty much red herrings until they finalize an idea

[bbrewer]

If they put a leader for the LF they will do for the orcs, because of ~~consistency~~


Grom legacy is alredy ruined by AU Grom and what thy did with Garrosh, at Least they could come up with a Good story to erase all the bullshit.

I Agree, and besides AU Grom and MU Grom are different characters with diverging histories and I think it would be cool to see AU Grom try to come to terms with MU Groms legacy while trying to create his own.

One of the things I liked most about the Khadgar/Gul'dan audio drama was AU Gul'dans reactions to Kil'jaeden blaming him for stuff MU Gul'dan did.

[Deleted]

I am kinda hoping they'll leave AU Grom out of this. Having AU Grom walk around Orgrimmar would just feel like a joke. Better live MU Grom legacy and memory preserved.

We need a hellscream tho to slay Alliance dogs on the battlefield.

[Dagoth Ur]

We need a hellscream tho to slay Alliance dogs on the battlefield.

Yeah I feel you. Horde without Hellscream just doesn't feel the same. It's just that it would be strange having alternate version of one of the greatest orcish hero come chill with us. I guess I could swallow it if they do it right.

[Deleted]

Did AU Gul'Dan diminish the story of MU Gul'Dan?

And another question, are AU Grom and MU Grom really the same at this point? They made a lot of different decision, which change a person / character. Although AU Grom was immensely mishandled in WoD. Like literally every iconic Orc Character in that expansion, except Gul'Dan. Durotan and Draka weren't probably too. They're just as boring as they are.

In the end it really depends on the story Blizzard tells with these characters. Even Jorin Deadeye could be a bigger disappointment than any of the WoD Orcs. That would quite an accomplishment though.

[bbrewer]

Did AU Gul'Dan diminish the story of MU Gul'Dan?

And another question, are AU Grom and MU Grom really the same at this point? They made a lot of different decision, which change a person / character. Although AU Grom was immensely mishandled in WoD. Like literally every iconic Orc Character in that expansion, except Gul'Dan. Durotan and Draka weren't probably too. They're just as boring as they are.

In the end it really depends on the story Blizzard tells with these characters. Even Jorin Deadeye could be a bigger disappointment than any of the WoD Orcs. That would quite an accomplishment though.

I agree. I think i mentioned it in this thread, but ill repeat it regardless, Not only did AU Gul'dan not diminish MU Gul'dan it made it more exciting. For example, my favorite part of the Khadgar/Gul'dan audio drama was AU Gul'dans reactions to Kiljaeden for being blamed for what MU Gul'dan did.

[Thimagryn]

I agree. I think i mentioned it in this thread, but ill repeat it regardless, Not only did AU Gul'dan not diminish MU Gul'dan it made it more exciting. For example, my favorite part of the Khadgar/Gul'dan audio drama was AU Gul'dans reactions to Kiljaeden for being blamed for what MU Gul'dan did.

Gul'dan was a 1-dimensional villain. He had no other goals or purpose than to further his own power. Grom on the other hand is a character that went through hardships and took the wrong path multiple times, only to redeem himself in the end. That change in character defines him and who he was. All of that was not present in AU Grom because he never went through all that, and the character is ultimately dimished in being referred to as 'the same character'. Blizzard did this with Fenix/Taladar as well, and no one would ever regard the former as the latter.

[Florena]

and that it would level out Alliance/Horde power, as imo the Horde seems to be weaker then the Alliance and has never recovered from MOP.

Alliance being the only superpower post SoO was lip service to upset Alliance players. It didn't matter in WoD it didn't matter in Legion and definitely doesn't in BFA.

[bbrewer]

Gul'dan was a 1-dimensional villain. He had no other goals or purpose than to further his own power. Grom on the other hand is a character that went through hardships and took the wrong path multiple times, only to redeem himself in the end. That change in character defines him and who he was. All of that was not present in AU Grom because he never went through all that, and the character is ultimately dimished in being referred to as 'the same character'. Blizzard did this with Fenix/Taladar as well, and no one would ever regard the former as the latter.

I agree, I've never once stated that they were the same. I think it would be interesting to see how AU Grom develops under Mu Grom's shadow.

[CreatureLives]

Mag'har literally just means uncorrupted in Orcish.

In Outland it meant something different because they were so few in numbers. All of the survivors stuck together as one clan. In Draenor before everything went to shit there was many different clans of Mag'har Orcs.

It makes sense that we would get the Draenor Orcs simply just because the Outland Mag'har are already in The Horde and have been for a long ass time now. Garrosh and Thrall's wife for example. We just don't play as them because there isn't that many left. Especially after what Garrosh did. So if we are going to recruit something NEW it would have to be the Draenor Orcs and it would really benefit The Horde because they are still pretty great in numbers and Draenor Orcs > Azeroth Orcs as far as fighting goes. I'd definitely want those guys on the battle field fighting for me. That's before the Orcs got soft.

[bbrewer]

Alliance being the only superpower post SoO was lip service to upset Alliance players. It didn't matter in WoD it didn't matter in Legion and definitely doesn't in BFA.

? what do you mean it doesn't matter in BFA, if there ever was an expansion that it did, that would be the one. The appeal about an mmo is that it happens in a ''living world''. If one side is constantly in internal turmoil and destroying itself (Something BFA looks like it will repeat) then an expansion about 2 factions in all out war is imo diminished.

[Deleted]

maybe rastakhan? Someone who calls themselves the god king is prob not a swell guy.

nooooooo i am god king skovald this troll is unworthy

[Magistrate]

Gul'dan was a 1-dimensional villain. He had no other goals or purpose than to further his own power. Grom on the other hand is a character that went through hardships and took the wrong path multiple times, only to redeem himself in the end. That change in character defines him and who he was. All of that was not present in AU Grom because he never went through all that, and the character is ultimately dimished in being referred to as 'the same character'. Blizzard did this with Fenix/Taladar as well, and no one would ever regard the former as the latter.

His reason for wanting power, and imo a better snapshot of him as a character, was to survive at any cost compounded with pride.

[Florena]

? what do you mean it doesn't matter in BFA, if there ever was an expansion that it did, that would be the one. The appeal about an mmo is that it happens in a ''living world''. If one side is constantly in internal turmoil and destroying itself (Something BFA looks like it will repeat) then an expansion about 2 factions in all out war is imo diminished.

The factions are on equal ground in bfa. Any damage to the horde that may have been done in mop is irrelevant because it was never demonstrated to be the case and now that the factions are at it again isn't even mentioned.

[Magistrate]

nooooooo i am god king skovald this troll is unworthy

God keeeng sko vald*

[Mellrod]

Only, I think we could and should have a Troll take this role. We've seen bad Orcs in the Horde, but not any bad Trolls. Vol'jin was dear to me, but he's gone now. So we can move on and take on a vicious Troll for once.

Ummm, try pretty much all of the Zandalari, Amani, Drakkari, Gurubashi, and Farakki troll tribes? They have pretty much been aggressive antagonists since their beginning in Warcraft lore. Or maybe the Blood Troll tribe that is coming in the next expansion, which runs on a harsh, primitive matriarchy centered around gore, blood magic, and sacrificing their weak males to their ancient god G'huun?



No idea where you've been getting the impression that trolls aren't vicious or aggressive. Tribes you may deem as "friendly" (i.e. Darkspear, Shatterspear, etc) are actually in the minority lorewise. Every other tribe in the empire is usually xenophobic and/or war-mongering. It makes me wonder what reasoning Blizz will come up with for the Zandalari to side with the Horde despite having so many enemies in the faction, like the High/Blood Elves. Not even mentioning the troll wars, how will they have gotten over both Alliance and Horde beating them down at every turn, from original ZG/ZA, to Cata's updates, to everything we did to them on Isle of Thunder?

[Magistrate]

Ummm, try pretty much all of the Zandalari, Amani, Drakkari, Gurubashi, and Farakki troll tribes, and how they have pretty much been aggressive antagonists since their beginning in Warcraft lore? Or maybe the Blood Troll tribe that is coming in the next expansion, which runs on a matriarchy centered around gore, blood sacrifices, and corrupting anicent Loa deities?

He said in the Horde.

[bbrewer]

The factions are on equal ground in bfa. Any damage to the horde that may have been done in mop is irrelevant because it was never demonstrated to be the case and now that the factions are at it again isn't even mentioned.

I get what you're saying I really do, You're right that it has not been demonstrated that their unequal, but i would argue that it also has not been demonstrated that they are. And with one faction just recovering from a civil war while seeming like it may do so again, while the other continues to be more unified by the day, it just screams to me as a horde player that we will lose (Can interpret that many ways) and thats boring to me in an expansion thats supposed to at least start off as faction vs faction.

[Deleted]

I got that vibe as well and can similarly see Kathrine dying and being replaced by Jaina.

Of topic: I am like 100% sure Kathrine is there just to die. Maybe in the Siege of Boralus dungeon? Who knows, but she plays a role for Jaina to lose everything.

On topic: I liked WoD, even despite the drought and all other associated problems, and I loved the aesthetics and Orc lore. And I think it would be a really stupid idea for Blizz to go back to Mag'har orcs, ever since their story has been pretty much resulted with Thrall's gf and mother and Garrosh.
Not to say, this is the ONLY way to return to WoD's legacy. (what I mean by this.. WoD and Legion pays legacy to TBC, Legion does to Wrath, BfA pays legacy to MoP)
I doubt there will be a different way to acces Yrel and Grom and all the stories built in WoD, other than by Allied Draenor orcs race.

[Mellrod]

He said in the Horde.

Zandalari are going to be in the Horde