AU Draenor is in our timeline?

[bbrewer]

How would it work in your theory, though? Unlike the demons who transcend realities, the Titans don't. How could they keep it so there was only one single timeline / universe? How did they prevent other timeline / universe from being created, or destroyed them if they don't at least transcend reality (again, which means physical universes in WoW term) themselves?

Where has it been stated that the titans don't? I've never seen AU Eonar in'game. But at the same time, ill admit that it's never stated that they do. Why i mentioned the Doomguard is that the titans used them to police misuse of Fel and Necrotic magic, so it would not be to much of a leap of logic to assume they also policed time magic. Also Aman'Thul is presumably the first entity to awaken in the physical universe and could be the reason that time in his own words answers to him. So why couldn't a fully powered pantheon(In my own theories parameters) with the help of doomguards destroy errant timelines or negate them in the first place. Aman'thul and the Pantheon could also have empowered beings like Nozdormu to watch over specific planets, but with there death and the doomguards going over to the BL, it would be impossible to stop every mortal. Did Aman'Thul empower Nozdormu before or after his death? I think it was before but i could be wrong.

[Dartz1979]

I wanna see more of Yrel she was so sexy.

[Aquamonkey]

Where has it been stated that the titans don't? I've never seen AU Eonar in'game. But at the same time, ill admit that it's never stated that they do.

Do Titans also transcend all realities or are there multiple Titans?
They don't, there are multiple titans, they are searching the cosmos for additional Titans. (Muffinus)

Why i mentioned the Doomguard is that the titans used them to police misuse of Fel and Necrotic magic, so it would not be to much of a leap of logic to assume they also policed time magic.

Just to clarify. The doomguards weren't used by the titans. They were used by a singular titan, Sargeras.

"...before Sargeras freed us, we were the Titan's hounds. Forever enslaved to police the use of arcane magics."

[bbrewer]

Do Titans also transcend all realities or are there multiple Titans?
They don't, there are multiple titans, they are searching the cosmos for additional Titans. (Muffinus)

Just to clarify. The doomguards weren't used by the titans. They were used by a singular titan, Sargeras.

"...before Sargeras freed us, we were the Titan's hounds. Forever enslaved to police the use of arcane magics."

To me that statement could mean the it was titans plural or maybe just sargeras tasked them with it. Many people have in this thread have mentioned examples of high end game designers and developers contradicting themselves (Metzen and the Falstad fiasco?), so i'm not going to take muffinus' word as gospel. Until it has been proven or disproven ingame we should take these kinds of statements with a grain of salt, especially if there from GM's

[bbrewer]

People need to stop quoting this as 'The devs have no idea.'

It was one time, where they put a different character in his place because he slipped their minds. Falstad was literally not an important character. Things slip the devs minds, and before it became a massive issue, in that same Q&A they admitted their fault and vowed to correct it.

I wasin't just a one time thing though, The whole premise of Wod was a series of contradictions and continues to be so today. Garrosh's story itself is a perfect example of this, In stonetalon one developer set him up to be a redeeming hero while blizzard collectively decided against. Garrosh killing Krom'gar for using a Mana Bomb and then using one on Theramore is one of the most if not the most absurd 180 in the game.

[Aquamonkey]

To me that statement could mean the it was titans plural or maybe just sargeras tasked them with it.

This quote seems to suggest they were used by the Titans prior to Sargeras freeing them.

"Titan's" is singular possessive. If it were plural possessive, it would be "Titans'" or "Titans's". The antecedent is Sargeras, so they were his hounds.

[sam86]

AU Draenor was ripped from it's timeline and brought to ours when the Hourglass of Eternity was used to connect the two via the Dark Portal.

This is how WoD was described to us. However, it was also described that the Legion is a single Legion across the multiverse. It's not 'our legion' for any reason - There is only one multi-universal Legion. That's it. That's the explanation.

Headcanons do not fit where we already have explanations for these things.

nor official lore cannon because that doesn't make sense lol
fuck blizz and their fucked 'kool' rule that they had to add that one line "archimonde learned from his encounter with us in MHJ" and made AU and MU demons one and same

[bbrewer]

This quote seems to suggest they were used by the Titans prior to Sargeras freeing them.

- - - Updated - - -



Even that is questionable at best.

Garrosh himself berrates and kills his captain for using a bomb on a useless target. Not once does he ever berrate him for killing druids. People read this as him being honorable and not wanting to kill innocents. They were wrong.

And it wasn't a Mana Bomb. It was just a big ass bomb.

I would ask that you read the quest text again.

[bbrewer]

There's another thing I learned about Garrosh during his time as Warchief - He likes to lie through his teeth.

Well this went nowhere.

[bbrewer]

There's another thing I learned about Garrosh during his time as Warchief - He likes to lie through his teeth.

Additionally, even if he wasn't lying, characters change and evolve over time. You'll notice it took another entire expansion for him to start going murder mode?

One quest =/= 'The devs don't know what they're doing.'

Not once have i said that the devs don't know anything. You're just assuming that i hold the most extreme viewpoints. My only point was that the devs do contradict themselves from time to time and that there word should be taken with a grain a salt, especially if it's lower tier members on social media (forums included). Also you'll notice that theramore takes place during cata?

I really don't see how it contradicts ingame (Or chronicle) lore at all, If you have some information please share it. Ill be the first person to say, oh i never thought of that or huh, thats a good idea.

[bbrewer]

Incorrect. Theramore was the pre-MoP event. It did not take place during Cata.

And you basically said that:



This is the exact opposite of how lore works. If it is said by a Dev, they know better than the in-game character. The in-game character is written to not have all the facts, they can be written to be hiding something. The Dev is not here to hide things from you unless there is a plan for it in the future.

My god man, that's some of the most extreme nitpicking I've ever seen. If that's the case then were both wrong and it happened in neither Cata or Mop. I don't see how me saying we should take a statement with a grain of salt as equivalent as saying the devs are a bunch of idiots running a game, I really don't.

When did i say that alternate timelines don't exist ? I'm getting really confused as too what your even arguing about.

[RobertMugabe]

Yes AU Draenor is in our timeline and in our universe.

I don't know how and why, but that's how it is now apparently.

That being said though, I actually like this as I do like the Draenor aesthetics... didn't like the gameplay or lack of content, but they could still Add some nice stuff there in the future, as Azeroth is now filled with Islands/continents. I mean they've teased another contient on the planet (the one in the south-west where the Ogres apparently come from)

[bbrewer]

You'll notice I didn't say you said the devs were a bunch of idiots, I said "One quest =/= 'The devs don't know what they're doing.'"

The pre-expansion event is considered the official start of the new expansion, just before the new expansion is released. It is the 5.0.x patch that applies all of the MoP changes to classes and racials and everything, but without being able to access Pandaria.

It is, for all intents and purposes, MoP. So no, you are incorrect again.

I'm noticing that you really like to argue semantics, I hear what your saying about the Mop thing and it is valid, but you could also argue that you didint need mop to play it, just cata, the same for the Wod, Legion and presumably BfA pre-events.

[Qualia]

We have no idea how long it takes a Titan to cross the universe.

Indeed, which means it could take anywhere from a minute to hundreds or thousands of years for a Titan to travel from where Argus is to AU Draenor. Both your "any minute" and my "years long" are speculation without any real basis in canon. In other words, neither of those speculation would be a problem in plot by itself if it is true - why would you automatically assume yours is true? Seeing that it hasn't happened in story, nor is brought up as a threat, isn't it more logical to assume that the authors / developers choose the other speculation / theory?

1) He wouldn't awaken to become anything else, and 2) Argus was still the Legion's homeworld. He would definitely awaken EVENTUALLY to become a Titan, the only question is when and by whom.

For all we know, he could be corrupted by the Void and become a Void Death Titan. (L'ura would still have helped the Draenei escape AU Argus, and therefore fallen to void, and therefore Mac'Aree would likely be quite similar to how it currently is.) Fingers crossed that's not a possibility, because holy shit would that be dumb.

His awakening was hastened when Sargeras risen him as the Pantheon was going to carrying their plan out. AU Argus, seeing that he wouldn't be affected by that event, will take more time. Now, with the Legion effectively dismantled, he wouldn't be tormented anymore and could theoretically recover over time. Can the Void infect him? Sure, but it would likely take longer for us to worry about at the moment. Isn't it also possible for the AU Naaru to do some cleaning over there, especially now all the important and powerful figures that bound the Legion together are already dealt with?

... Because even the heroes IN the MU only stepped into their roles when a cataclysmic event forced them to. Why would anyone do so in the AU if there's no reason to?

And the heroes in AU will step into their roles when a cataclysmic event forced them to. When the Legion invade, for example. Why are you assuming that our growth speed is similar to theirs? We know nothing about that AU Azeroth. What if all beings over there are born ten times more powerful and intelligent than us thanks to their Keepers' decision of sharing the WoE's power with the entire Titanforged army? What if the AU Titans decided to arm all Azeroth mortals with Titans knowledge, tech and weaponry?

I'm not saying that they must conveniently be way more powerful than us with no effort. However, I pointed out that it's always a possibility. You can't just scratch it off and assume that AU Azeroth will largely be similar to us and then saying it doesn't make sense for the Legion not to invade them.

Malfurion didn't 'foil a legion plot', he called upon Nature to hold Archimonde for a bit. Malfurion, the being who from birth was known to be a person of great importance, who by the time you mention, had already been under the tutelage of the father of Druids for several years. If he was so strong to stop the plot, why didn't he just kill Archimonde then and there?

By foiling a plot, I was referring to him reversing the portal magic and banished all the demons back to the Nether, not that brief encounter with Archimonde. I never said he could kill Archimonde. Yes, Malfurion was known to be a person of great importance from birth. How do you know for certain if there aren't dozens of those in AU Azeroth with better assists / artifacts?

Why would he be? What would be different that would fuel his birth?

Is a billionaire and a failure the same? Is Turalyon and random farmer fodder #32767? People aren't born with the same potential, that's why.

You are right that we can't just assume that's going to happen. I'm not saying that there is 100% chance of that happening. However, you can't just assume it won't happen either. What you are doing is that you assume it won't happen, then complain why the Legion didn't take the easy route. As I said, I'm pointing out a possibility that it wouldn't be an easy route at all - which can explain why the Legion didn't bother with it. Unlike AU Draenor, AU Azeroth wasn't even said to be largely resemble us (well, it wasn't mentioned at all in fact), so you can't use "they would be" as a basis.

1) MU Gul'dan was much less powerful than AU Gul'dan, so I don't know why MU Gul'dan has suddenly entered the equation.

Actually, that was my mistake. I was meant to say AU Gul'dan. At that point, AU Gul'dan was less powerful than Khadgar - as it was shown in "Tomb of Sargeras" audio drama until he started draining power from the tomb. Yet, he took just a moment to summon Archimonde over.

2) Why invade the MU when the AU is less powerful? "Because they're stupid" ignores that we've been told the people leading them is the most dangerously cunning being in the universe, with the smartest leaders of a race of conquerors leading the armies, with infinite numbers. To call this 'not a plot hole' is silly at best.

Again, why are you assuming AU is less powerful? And whatever they were said to be, they had been portrayed as arrogant and made stupid decisions, so yeah, "they are stupid" isn't a plothole.

3) We're not talking about Gul'dan summoning Archimonde, because Gul'dan successfully summoned Archimonde in Hellfire Citadel. We're talking about Archimonde throwing Gul'dan to MU Azeroth instead of AU Azeroth. The Dark Portal was shattered and not rebuilt during the entirety of WoD. (For that matter, we don't know if it's rebuilt to this day. We just know we have portals to and from the AU Draenor, and that Draenor Orcs are a future Allied Race.) There was no connection to our universe. It would take EQUAL if not GREATER effort to throw Gul'dan to MU Azeroth than AU Azeroth.

The connection between worlds doesn't work that way. Shattering a portal does not remove the connection. That's why the Dark Portal in our universe was re-opened relatively easily even after it was destroyed by Khadgar at the end of Second War, and after it went dormant after MU Draenor were destroyed by Ner'zhul. As stated in WC manual: "Unbeknownst to the archmage and the people of Azeroth, however, the link between the worlds remained as an unseen tear in the fabric of reality.". The portal was shattered so you couldn't just run through it and access MU Azeroth, but the connection remained and was always there. You don't destroy a connection merely by destroying its physical portal. Gul'dan had an relatively easy time of summoning Archimonde from present in Twisting Nether thanks to that, and so did Archimonde in throwing Gul'dan to MU Azeroth. Threre wasn't any connection between past AU Draenor and past AU Azeroth, so it won't be the same.

We have no idea where he was. We don't see him the entirety of our campaign on Argus.

He just suddenly appears humping Azeroth as we finish off Argus. For all we know, he WAS coming already, and they summoned him BACK to Argus once the portal to Azeroth was open.

It is, however, completely against the characterization of these enemies.

But Archimonde was the leader of the conservatory now. The bastion of Eredar intelligence. And he couldn't put 2 and 2 together to figure out the AU Azeroth would be an easier target to invade? Kil'jaeden was the leader of an army of conquerors, who had led the Draenei to the longest period of prosperity they ever had. And he couldn't figure out that, with an infinite army, he could very easily stop a single invasion force if he just stopped invading literally the entire cosmos in the meantime?

These are absolutely plot holes.

Now, that's an issue. I see your point here, but you can't use their previous interpretations over the current one. If you complained that "I don't like the direction the story is going" or "The demons were portrayed badly in WoD onwards", I wouldn't have a problem. I didn't disagreed when people were saying that it's bad for Blizzard to make the demons seemingly incompetence as they were. However, you claimed that it was a plothole - no, it wasn't. As I said, a plothole is something unexplainable using canon information - in this case, they just elaborate upon the image of the Legion and expand the canon. It's added their former interpretation. If, for example, the demons were established as perfect beings who is incapable of making mistake, or at least, take Azeroth seriously without being arrogant - then yes, their mistakes would be a plothole. Alas, they aren't (in fact, they made plenty of mistake due o being arrogance) and some of their mistakes, as you interpreted them, might not even be true.

And not too related as I was discussing from the perspective that they are arrogance and stupid as they were portrayed, but the Legion don't even have a literally infinite army. It's just their bragging, mainly because they could resurrect themselves if they aren't killed inside the Nether or places saturated with Nether energy.

[bbrewer]

You'll notice I didn't say you said the devs were a bunch of idiots, I said "One quest =/= 'The devs don't know what they're doing.'"

The pre-expansion event is considered the official start of the new expansion, just before the new expansion is released. It is the 5.0.x patch that applies all of the MoP changes to classes and racials and everything, but without being able to access Pandaria.

It is, for all intents and purposes, MoP. So no, you are incorrect again.

We clearly disagree on something, not really sure where the initial disagreement was tbh but ill give you one chance to debunk my theory once and for all and if you do, ill agree that it has holes. Point to me a single Alternate Universe ingame, or in the books that happens pre-ordered azeroth?

I don't really think you read my posts out in full, you assume alot of things as absolute fact when they can infact be interpreted, whos to say that the history of MU Azeroth wasint meant to happen from the beginning as it has, wod and all. I don't take my ''theory'' as the absolute bible of the warcraft universe, merely a fun way of trying to explain the missing holes in wod.

[Aeula]

It’s best just to imagine it as another planet.

[Aquamonkey]

(Nor does Thrall exist in the AU - Draka and Durotan have no children.)

To be fair, this is less a timeline difference and more that WoD takes place a couple years before Thrall would have been born.

[bbrewer]

There doesn't have to be one specifically mentioned. WoD's timeline existed prior to us opening the portal. Else, it would be the exact same as ours, just in the past. It wasn't. Ner'zhul's friend was never killed, therefore he couldn't appear as a ghost in front of Ner'zhul to lead him towards the Legion. Garrosh was never born, and Grom doesn't have any children. (Nor does Thrall exist in the AU - Draka and Durotan have no children.) The alternate universe was a timeline running parallel to ours, with different events leading it along a different path.

This is why i get confused, I never said it didn't exist until we opened the portal. Like all AU's it presumably split from a decision in the MU or maybe another Au.
Ill leave you with an Illidan Quote from the novel ''he saw not just one universe but a near infinity of them, a complex fractal structure, where new worlds were born each minute from the decisions made a heartbeat before''

EDIT: Forgot this part ''and the Legion was destroying them all''

[Deleted]

Will keep using the DC Multiverse image because it explains (although the Metal comics are expanding it further more):



Our Azeroth is Earth 0 (and its Universe), AU Draenor is some other Earth and the Twisting Nether is the Bleed.

[bbrewer]

Will keep using the DC Multiverse image because it explains (although the Metal comics are expanding it further more):



Our Azeroth is Earth 0 (and its Universe), AU Draenor is some other Earth and the Twisting Nether is the Bleed.

After my last post i immediately though of Justice League Crisis on Two Earth's and then right after you posted this