Now people that said slyvanas and horde did not attack first could finally shut it!

[Aliven]

Nah, she is. And she is not even evil. She is perfectly gray. Anyone telling she is evil never played for some really evil factions. Ever played Warhammer online as Destruction(more specific the Chaos)? THAT was evil, edgy and without any good intentions. It was all about spreading chaos, killing everything, just to please chaos gods.

Sylvanas is probably, with Genn, in the most complicated situation in the game and still, while Genn is driven by pure hatred towards her, she is at least trying to ensure horde's future (and according datamined dialogues - achieve peace by separate horde and alliance by one huge ocean). You don't like her, That's okay. But she is very interesting character. If she wouldn't, noone would really care about her in good or bad way.

She is evil. If she had power of chaos and huge armies she would do exactly the same to Azeroth what Chaos want to do for WH.
But that's ok. You have twisted vision already, proved by statement that slaughtering Night Elf civilization is her "working toward peace".

She is not interesting. She is boring. Only interesting thing about her is people trying to justify her actions. But even that get boring pretty quickly.

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Leaving your faction because they've fallen from your standard would actually do him honor, not show a lack of it.
If Saurfang feels that the current horde leader is not compatible with the orcs code of honor, the honorable thing to do is either kill her or leave.

I believe that with orc sense of honor is to either kill her then or die trying to kill her.
But HEY. Now Saurfang is persona non grata because he dared to disobey bitch queen It is funny Sylvana fanboys going all mental on him.

[ManiaCCC]

She is evil. If she had power of chaos and huge armies she would do exactly the same to Azeroth what Chaos want to do for WH.
But that's ok. You have twisted vision already, proved by statement that slaughtering Night Elf civilization is her "working toward peace".

She is not interesting. She is boring. Only interesting thing about her is people trying to justify her actions. But even that get boring pretty quickly.

Yea, whatever. You are not very into stories and that's shows. But that's okay. Sylvanas whiners are spice of the game

[evertonbelmontt]

No. She insulted him. Repeatedly. And jabbed him with a taunt about his son.

^

She better drop a good shadow relic.

KEK

Ooops, wrong expansion. =3

[Aaronioslo]

Not new and we still don't know the full story, stop being a rabid fanboy.

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SYLVANAS - damnit.

you would be defending the bitch when she is a raid boss. that seems more rabid

[Gramlen]

You have twisted vision already, proved by statement that slaughtering Night Elf civilization is her "working toward peace".

[citation needed]

[oathy]

you would be defending the bitch when she is a raid boss. that seems more rabid

if this really is the end of her as the horde leader
hope there's a really good reason for this.
I'm really hoping there's a 3rd party playing both sides

[Aliven]

if this really is the end of her as the horde leader
hope there's a really good reason for this.
I'm really hoping there's a 3rd party playing both sides

Yes, it is Sylvanas. Thats why both Horde and Ally could raid her for phat loot.

[Lumineus]

Horde didn't strike first sorry to disappoint you OP.

The very beginning of Stormheim has an alliance airship commanded by Greymane open fire for no reason on Sylvanas's flagship

Not true. The alliance version of this quest is canon:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=40794/f...ueens-reprisal

Which means the val'kyr plot was exposed and casus belli was satisfied. Not that he didn't already have it after the Horde's desertion at Broken Shore or, you know, the whole incident where the Forsaken attacked and blighted his kingdom in a truly unprovoked war of conquest... also, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Forsaken are a bunch of shambling undead with an attitude problem. Their very existence is grounds for immediate extermination.

[Steampunkette]

Not true. The alliance version of this quest is canon:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=40794/f...ueens-reprisal

Which means the val'kyr plot was exposed and casus belli was satisfied. Not that he didn't already have it after the Horde's desertion at Broken Shore or, you know, the whole incident where the Forsaken attacked and blighted his kingdom in a truly unprovoked war of conquest... also, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Forsaken are a bunch of shambling undead with an attitude problem. Their very existence is grounds for immediate extermination.

He had hints that she was planning to steal something from the Val'kyr.

However, he doesn't expound on her activities or the dangers she could unleash by going after Eyir, he talks about his hunt, his prey. He also grabs Rogers, the War Criminal, to take him to his target.

Heck, even when you hand the book in, the person you give it to glances at the book before talking about it being a major development in the campaign. What campaign? Why the continuing war against the Forsaken 'cause even though Genn was ordered by Anduin to drop it, he still had his people at war.

As to Casus Belli: A Declaration of War is a formal thing between nations. It's a speech or a document that formally declares "We're gonna kick yo ass". At no point does he make a formal declaration of war against Sylvanas on the basis of what he suspects she might be doing in Stormheim. Yeah, he's got some tangential evidence, but that's about all he's got.

And then he uses Cloud Cover to make a direct sneak attack on Sylvanas and her fleet in an attempt to assassinate head of state. Both of those things are at the absolute "Best" dishonorable acts of cowards. At the worst, they could be viewed as War Crimes since it was an overwhelming sneak attack during peace-time with a temporary ally, which would be a misuse of a flag of truce.

So... Y'know... No. Genn didn't really have Casus Belli. And even if he had, he didn't Declare it. He gathered forces in secret, hid under cover of clouds, and dropped cannonballs on her head.

And all of that on evidence, but not proof, of Sylvanas's intentions as written in a waterlogged journal with most of it's text washed away.

Also: Is it canon? I haven't seen a dev say anything one way or the other, but there's only one book and the Horde get it, too, so...

[Hitei]

Not true. The alliance version of this quest is canon:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=40794/f...ueens-reprisal

Which means the val'kyr plot was exposed and casus belli was satisfied. Not that he didn't already have it after the Horde's desertion at Broken Shore or, you know, the whole incident where the Forsaken attacked and blighted his kingdom in a truly unprovoked war of conquest... also, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Forsaken are a bunch of shambling undead with an attitude problem. Their very existence is grounds for immediate extermination.

Don't bother. You are talking to a Sylvanas fanboy who will do absurd mental gymnastics to try and claim Sylvanas is not really a bad person and the Forsaken are totally justified to be slaughtering farmers, enslaving the dead and deploying biological weapons constantly, but Genn is a psychopath comitting warcrimes for firing on a fleet of warships from the nation who attacked his country unprovoked, plagued his city and killed his people.

[Steampunkette]

Hitei? Just fuck off.

I don't need your continued harassment.

Nobody does.

[Deleted]

Somebody should count how many different erronous ways people have spelled Sylvanas in this thread.

[Deleted]

Maybe it's one of the three lies that Sylvanas/Horde burnt down Teldrassil. Would laugh so hard. Allies are believing everything you tell them as long the Horde is the bad guy.
Like "Uhuuuuu Horde abandoned us und left us to die at Broken Shore" yeah yeah, believe what you want.

[Deleted]

I don't get what the big fuss is about. I'm neither a sylvanas fanboy nor hater, I'm pretty indifferent about her. I guess they could make her interesting? She's not the worst character and she has been around since before wow, which is always nice. I would be surprised if we actually get to kill Sylvanas, just feels weird, doesn't make sense for them to build her up and then just kill her off, I feel like they already made that mistake with Garrosh. I'm guessing Sylvanas is not going anywhere, and if she is it's probably a redemption story arc rather than her becoming a villain.

Guess time will tell, we'll just have to see what Blizzard has planned for her character, I would be surprised if she ends up another raid boss or just gets tossed in the bin. I feel like Blizzard is trying to solidify the factions and their differences, their power etc. Doesn't make sense to start killing off leaders in a time like this.

Why do you people want her dead so badly? I mean, I really don't care that much that I wish for a fictional character to die, what's the deal? I feel like there should be worse characters around, she was pretty cool back in warcraft 3.

[Moscovian Candidate]

She should be a raid boss, not a faction leader.

[Doffen]

Somebody should count how many different erronous ways people have spelled Sylvanas in this thread.

I have another, Sanavlys.

[Clone]

Not true. The alliance version of this quest is canon:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=40794/f...ueens-reprisal

Which means the val'kyr plot was exposed and casus belli was satisfied. Not that he didn't already have it after the Horde's desertion at Broken Shore or, you know, the whole incident where the Forsaken attacked and blighted his kingdom in a truly unprovoked war of conquest... also, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Forsaken are a bunch of shambling undead with an attitude problem. Their very existence is grounds for immediate extermination.

Cut the shit, Genn mentions repeatedly they didn't know what Sylvanas was after in Stormheim. That quest didn't expose any plot.

[Lumineus]

I could accept that Genn is daft or uninformed enough to not realize that "power of the v...." is "val'kyr" and thus not sure of Sylvanas' exact motivations, but given that the Alliance's intelligence division was being controlled by a Dreadlord actively trying to cover up events in Stormheim, there's literally no other way he could have known the Forsaken were going to be there unless he got that missive from the Greywatch.

[Az0na]

Horde are the agressors. We did so much to save our planet from legion and certain corruption/death. Big brother sargaras plumps in big sword in our world and is bleeding out and what does horde do attack our planets blood for money and power. We alliance attack them to stop their madness in defence of our dieying planet!

Apprently its not obvious enough for horde huge ass gaint sword sticking out of our planet and substance is blood seeping out of it we should do anything to fix it. But noo lets mine it hurdurrr horde are faction full stupid races.

By this point everyone on azeroth knows their planet is aliving thing.