Fire Mage Lacking Damage

[ixidor12]

Hello All,

Looking for experienced fire mages to give their opinion for ST damage. I feel my damage is very lacking at 1.05m - 1.2m in low mobility fights. ilvl 949, I have the bracers and time warp ring for legendaries. Acid Catalyst injector/ Dreadstone of Endless Shadows for trinkets. Tier 21 4 set bonus. I am basically using the gear, which sims best for now.

I am always trying to be very focused, never missing procs and aiming for correct rotations. Having said that, I am using fireblast/ phoenix flames whenever available and not 'fishing' for pyro procs (obviously saving a few combustion). Is that a huge impact on my dps? Should I be always only using the instant cast crit spells to guarantee pyro procs instead?

In addition when do I use Meteor. Just before using combustion or during?

Also, I am doing HC Antorus sometimes and I feel legendary bracers are making me lose dps on many fights. Often I can not use the procs due to movement being too important. Other times I start to cast it and it takes so long that boss mechanic forces me to move at 70% cast (such a horrible feeling). I would say I successfully cast the bracer proc maybe 3 times in a boss encounter and some of them do not even crit, so its not even a dps gain. I feel i should be using the bracers only on like 3 out of 11 bosses in Antorus? It shows massive dps boost when I sim, but in game this item is just not working for me at all.

Thanks all in advance!

[cafecito820]

Straight from this guide: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fire-m...owns-abilities

Understanding how to generate Critical Strikes as efficiently as possible is key to utilizing Fire effectively. This is a specialization that is designed to crit more often than not, so it is easy to understand why learning to execute the right combos to create a chain of crits is of paramount importance.

Whenever you get a Heating Up Icon Heating Up proc, you should convert it to a Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak using Fire Blast Icon Fire Blast. Generally, you will then want to cast a Fireball Icon Fireball, and immediately spend your Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak on a Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast as your Fireball Icon Fireball cast finishes. Both of these spells will strike at the same time, generating the largest possible ignite and the chance at an immediate follow up Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak if both of them critically strike. If only one of the spells critically strikes, Heating Up Icon Heating Up will proc and you can immediately Fire Blast Icon Fire Blast and repeat this process.

There is a 0.2-second grace period where Heating Up Icon Heating Up will not be cancelled if two spells impact simultaneously and only one of them critically strikes.

This is known as "Pyroblast Fishing" and is the best way to create a large chain of crits.

[CptEgo]

I am always trying to be very focused, never missing procs and aiming for correct rotations. Having said that, I am using fireblast/ phoenix flames whenever available and not 'fishing' for pyro procs (obviously saving a few combustion). Is that a huge impact on my dps? Should I be always only using the instant cast crit spells to guarantee pyro procs instead?

In addition when do I use Meteor. Just before using combustion or during?
Thanks all in advance!

Yes it's a huge impact. Always Hot Streak into a Fireball for the chance for another Hot Streak and for the biggest possible ignite. Fire Blast only to create a Hot Streak, and ofcourse during Combustion. Phoenix Flames only during Combustion.

Edit: I think that's right. I'm new to Fire myself

[Burnanator]

You never sit on charges, period. FBall until Heating up - FBlast (gain Hot Streak!)- FBall - Pyro. Phoenix has a long enough recharge you can safely burn one on pull, and it will have all 3 to use during combustion (with fire starter talent). Continue at least one Phoenix charge in between combustion cd's. You never sit on capped charges of anything. AS for meteor, cast it FIRST than combustion than follow normal crit chain.

[CptEgo]

You never sit on charges, period. FBall until Heating up - FBlast (gain Hot Streak!)- FBall - Pyro. Phoenix has a long enough recharge you can safely burn one on pull, and it will have all 3 to use during combustion (with fire starter talent). Continue at least one Phoenix charge in between combustion cd's. You never sit on capped charges of anything. AS for meteor, cast it FIRST than combustion than follow normal crit chain.

I thought squeezing in PF in your normal rotation was a dps-loss actually.

[Realmerc]

your rotation definitely needs some improvements, but yeah..

in terms of ST damage, fire is the lowest compared to frost and arcane..

and the later boss fights, aggramr, vari, and Argus are in favor of frost mage..

even with the 3% buff they gave us recently.. fire is still lackluster on a lot bosses in Antorus.

[D3athsting]

your rotation definitely needs some improvements, but yeah..

in terms of ST damage, fire is the lowest compared to frost and arcane..

and the later boss fights, aggramr, vari, and Argus are in favor of frost mage..

even with the 3% buff they gave us recently.. fire is still lackluster on a lot bosses in Antorus.

Lol fire is very strong on aggramar and argus, on argus you can use belt and literally laugh at all his falling bombs while nuking the shit out of him with execute from belt+ hero, i often end up over 2M dps in last phase

[Afflik]

Lol fire is very strong on aggramar and argus, on argus you can use belt and literally laugh at all his falling bombs while nuking the shit out of him with execute from belt+ hero, i often end up over 2M dps in last phase

no falling bombs on mythic.... but yes belt is still very good for the last phase in mythic too.

[Reachie10]

Yes it's a huge impact. Always Hot Streak into a Fireball for the chance for another Hot Streak and for the biggest possible ignite. Fire Blast only to create a Hot Streak, and ofcourse during Combustion. Phoenix Flames only during Combustion.

Edit: I think that's right. I'm new to Fire myself

Sorry - can you explain this a little bit more.

So when I get a Hot Streak (IE, I get heating up, then I FB/PF to get Hot Streak) - I don't want to fire it right away, I want to cast fireball, then fire it after, correct?

What is the benefit? Because if I throw that pyro, and it crits, then I FB/PF again, I get another Hot Streak, and get 2 Pyros in a row almost. Perhaps I am confused?

If I cast that fireball, then pyro, and the fireball crits, and the pyro doesn't, I will lose that heating up, and then start over right?

Sorry if all of this sounds confusing, I play a mage as an alt and just have started playing it more recently.

[The Archmage]

Sorry - can you explain this a little bit more.

So when I get a Hot Streak (IE, I get heating up, then I FB/PF to get Hot Streak) - I don't want to fire it right away, I want to cast fireball, then fire it after, correct?

What is the benefit? Because if I throw that pyro, and it crits, then I FB/PF again, I get another Hot Streak, and get 2 Pyros in a row almost. Perhaps I am confused?

If I cast that fireball, then pyro, and the fireball crits, and the pyro doesn't, I will lose that heating up, and then start over right?

Sorry if all of this sounds confusing, I play a mage as an alt and just have started playing it more recently.

The key is chaining spells, and never lose any casting time.

Due to their travel time, both Fireball and Pyroblast will hit the target way later then your gcd, therefore it's optimal that you already start casting a Fireball.

Let me break it down to you.

You are with no procs. You cast a Fireball. When the cast finishes and the spell leaves your hand, you can already cast something else, but you don't really know if the Fireball is a crit or not. So, you start casting a second Fireball right after the first. While you are mid casting, the first one hits the target. If it lands a crit, you get Heating Up. You then immediately use Fireblast to turn that Heating Up into an Hot Streak, and you can shoot that instant Pyroblast as soon as you complete the Fireball you are casting. When both spells leave you hand, you don't know if they will crit or not. So, guess what? You got it. Fireball again, and then you act accordingly to what happens. Both the previous spells crit? Wonderful, you got Hot Streak again, you just complete the cast and then chain another Pyro. Only one of the 2 crits? You Fireblast again to turn it into an instant Pyro and shoot it as soon as Fireball completes. None of them scored a crit? Bummer, you keep chaining Fireballs until one of them crits, you convert it into an instant Pyro (while you are surely casting the following Fireball) and then shoot an instant Pyro.

Rince and repeat.

Basically, there are only two occasions where you use your Hot Streaks wihtout casting a Fireball before:

1 - you are on the move
2 - you need to use a legendary bracers proc

Hope this helps!

[Reachie10]

Snip

1 - you are on the move
2 - you need to use a legendary bracers proc

Hope this helps!

Got it! That's what I thought, thanks for clarifying!

How does getting the legendary bracers effect the rotation?

Another thing I seem to struggle with is, during combustion, after I've used my FB's, Phoenix flame travel time is quite a while, so I think that's another instance where, I fireball, PF, cast another fireball (even though I know I'll get heating up since FB+PF will both crit with combustion) and then continue? Or do I just cast PF, wait .5 seconds for it to hit the target, and then use the instant Pyro? (maybe casting scorch is better?) I never really cast scorch during combustion, which maybe a mistake.

Thanks for the help Mr Archmage!

[The Archmage]

Got it! That's what I thought, thanks for clarifying!

How does getting the legendary bracers effect the rotation?

Another thing I seem to struggle with is, during combustion, after I've used my FB's, Phoenix flame travel time is quite a while, so I think that's another instance where, I fireball, PF, cast another fireball (even though I know I'll get heating up since FB+PF will both crit with combustion) and then continue? Or do I just cast PF, wait .5 seconds for it to hit the target, and then use the instant Pyro? (maybe casting scorch is better?) I never really cast scorch during combustion, which maybe a mistake.

Thanks for the help Mr Archmage!

http://www.wowhead.com/item=132406/m...f-the-sun-king

Legendary bracers gives you a 15% chance everytime you consume Hot Streak to receive a buff for 15 seconds. While the buff is active, your next hard casted Pyroblast will consume the buff and hit for 300% increased damage. Hard casted means you have to cast it non-instant, meaning without a Hot Streak proc.

This is paramount for Fire, since you can easily crit for 8 millions and thus results in a massive Ignite that spreads on everyone. It's why bracers are often the best possible legendary in both pure Single Target aswell as AoE fights.

So, it changes your rotation because, when you get the proc, you want to cast that Pyroblast as soon as you can. With reasonable amounts of Haste it should take a little over 3 seconds to cast your empowered Pyroblast. Therefore, if you have Hot Streak active when Bracers proc happens, you want to consume it immediately and start hard casting your amazing Pyro as soon as you can.

As for Combustion, the goal is to squeeze in as many instant Pytoblast as possible in the given time, therefore instant cast take prio over casting anything, as long as you have them available. Ideally, your Combustion should look like this, provided it starts with a Hot Streak active (which you should always try to do):

Pyroblast
Fireblast
Pyroblast
Fireblast
Pyroblast
Fireblast
Pyroblast
Phoenix Flames
Pyroblast
Phoenix Flames
Pyroblast
Phoenix Flames
Pyroblast

At this point, you will still have seconds left (how many actually depends on your Haste). Casting Scorch is ideal because it has no travel time, it has a short cast time and is castable on the move, which sometimes helps.

Lastly, Pyroblast empowered via legendary procs take prio over everything, included during Combustion. However, make sure that you actually finish casting it before Combustion runs out, otherwise it will not gain any benefit and you end up wasting seconds of our precious damage cd.

[Reachie10]

[url]Snip.

Thank you!! Really hope to get those bracers soon! (if ever)!

I really appreciate your help!

[Pensylvestor]

A lot of people don't really know how to manage ignite well either, which in some cases can be a pretty large dps loss. With the t21/RoP on single target, there isn't a whole lot you can do to manage your ignite, but on fights with multiple targets, like HC, you want to frontload a big ignite before the adds come out so it spreads.

You can also load some extra damage into your bracer proc by casting a hot streak with it as well to get a bigger ignite rolling and remember you almost always have 1 charge of phoenix flames that you can use outside of your combust window, and still be able to go into your next combust with 3 charges.

Ignite management is pretty small on single target, but like I said, it can make a huge difference on fights with adds.

[Reachie10]

A lot of people don't really know how to manage ignite well either, which in some cases can be a pretty large dps loss. With the t21/RoP on single target, there isn't a whole lot you can do to manage your ignite, but on fights with multiple targets, like HC, you want to frontload a big ignite before the adds come out so it spreads.

You can also load some extra damage into your bracer proc by casting a hot streak with it as well to get a bigger ignite rolling and remember you almost always have 1 charge of phoenix flames that you can use outside of your combust window, and still be able to go into your next combust with 3 charges.

Ignite management is pretty small on single target, but like I said, it can make a huge difference on fights with adds.

What is the best way to manage ignite? Do you have an addon to track that or something?

[nickseng]

What is the best way to manage ignite? Do you have an addon to track that or something?

He means Combustion, as there really isn't any other way to frontload ignites.

For example, in High Command, if you combust on the boss before the adds spawn, you can spread the huge ignite created by the combust to the adds.

[Deleted]

Phoenix go before fb as it has a longer cd.

Hi sorry to ask but could you expand on this as I don't fully understand what you mean

[Deleted]

You cast at least one phoenix before fire blast for a couple reasons. One of which being we have a talent that causes the longer cd on phoenixes to reduce, the other being the the dmg from phoenix is higher than fb so you ramp up ignite more quickly. Since you also want at least 2 phoenixes every combust, start with phoenix.

Ah ok that's a very nice explanation tyvm

[satimy]

How much of a dps increase are the bracers? I have gloves and belt and seem to be at the 1.5 mil dps mark

[Zaketdb]

Hi all! I originally played a boomkin from vanilla until mid cata. I was forced to take a break due to some serious health issues. During the break my account was hacked and when I came back at the end of Draenor I was unable to get my account back. I created a new account and started to play a fire mage. I used to be in the top 5 of dps charts then around 7.3 I don't know what happened and I fell down the chart to the 6-13 range (all depending on what is in the raid). My ilvl is 949. I pretty much have every fire legendary there is available in game atm. Currently I am using Soul of the Archmage ring and Kil'Jaden's Burning Wish trinket as my legendary's. I have the 4 set bonus of the tier 21 gear set from Antorus. I have only done Antorus on normal and raid finder because with my low end dps I know I would not be much help in anything higher. If you want to look me up my fire mages name is my username here. I am trying to get some help to figure out what I am doing wrong so I can get my dps up again. I really don't want to have switch specs. I have tried to play frost and did not care for it, same with arcane. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!