Active shooter situation at Florida high school, at least 20 injured so far

[Jastall]

A happy person doesn't kill people. There are millions of people with guns available to them that aren't killing anyone. So, it's not the act of having a gun that's the main problem. You have your logic ALL sorts of fucked up.

Thanks for not reading the rest of my post, because I did not say that everyone with a gun is running around shooting people at all. I said that the mental health problems + easily available guns is the deadly cocktail. Since removing mental health problems is all but impossible, removing easily available guns for these people seems like the better solution.

[Pickynerd]

I'm pretty sure the factor is dwarfed by the fact that the guns are there and available to buy in the first place. It is not my habit to shill for my country, but in Canada a 19 years old on medication and attending a mental health clinic would never, ever have been able to just waltz in a shop and buy an AR-15 plus ammo. So his mental state remaining the same, he is immediately far less dangerous. Yes, he could have used a knife and such, but that's a lot less lethal than a gun, and doesn't have the same fetishistic connotations that pushes some of these assholes to act.

That doesn't mean there are no shootings in Canada. There are. But per capita, there are far fewer of them. Zero risk doesn't exist, but that does not mean the nation needs to look at butchered children and tell themselves throwing more pills and shrinks at the problem will solve it, while in some states any idiot can buy a semi-automatic rifle for a couple hundred dollars.

https://www.statista.com/topics/1750...ime-in-the-us/

We can gather some data here, and I agree young adults with problems should not have any access to guns, let alone those who have mental issues. AR-15's and the like really have no place in any citizens hand.

Fact of the matter is guns don't make people violent, it just gives violent people access to violence.

[plagueshard801]

If you buy a car only because you want to look at it doesn't make it "not designed to drive you around".

That's fair. I can't remember that last time I saw a gun that was marketed for target shooting. Typically it's "the ultimate in personal safety and self-defense". You win this exchange.

[Zomis]

Bombs require more thought and knowledge to create. If you dont kill yourself making it. A car is easy to operate, just need to find a big enough crowd, which isnt hard.

Bombs are much easier to create than a handgun.

[Pickynerd]

Bombs are much easier to create than a handgun.

Killing people is easy, figuring out why people do it isn't and playing the blame game will get us no where.

Maybe people having hands is the problem, we can solve a lot of problems by lopping hands off children at birth.

[Slant]

Imprison? No, investigate especially someone with mental health issues, yup.

Looks like I am right again, they didn't follow protocol - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16...ns-missed.html

You do realise that taking conclusions from hindsight is quite different than investigating thousands if not tens of thousands of potential cases each year? Great, I heard the US is now super rich with Trump, I'm sure you'll be able to do the logistics and additional man hours without breaking your budget. Again.

[Orby]

Nice to see America has some smart people

[urasim]

Thanks for not reading the rest of my post

I read it. I don't care to respond to the rest. I snipped it to save space, and to make sure my point was directed at that point and the overall thought.

because I did not say that everyone with a gun is running around shooting people at all. I said that the mental health problems + easily available guns is the deadly cocktail. Since removing mental health problems is all but impossible, removing easily available guns for these people seems like the better solution.

Do you know why comparing Canada and the US is stupid? Look at the differences in health care. Do you really think if there was 300,000,000 guns in Canada, and they were easily purchasable, would they have the same problems as the US?

Do you think it's easier to remove all guns or to help people become stable functioning members of society? I think any attempt at removing guns, at this point with the US so politically divided, would ignite a civil war.

Nice to see America has some smart people

Smart? He's citing the false stat of "18th school shooting this year". Not smart when you fails to do research.

The thoughts and prayers bit is just like when liberals say "we stand with France" when Nice was attacked. It's a solidarity thing. Anyone who spits on "prayers and thoughts" but says "I'm sorry for your loss, and I'm here if you need to talk" needs to be smacked upside the head.

[plagueshard801]

Nice to see America has some smart people

No shit. I totally agree with this guy.

[Jastall]

https://www.statista.com/topics/1750...ime-in-the-us/

We can gather some data here, and I agree young adults with problems should not have any access to guns, let alone those who have mental issues. AR-15's and the like really have no place in any citizens hand.

Fact of the matter is guns don't make people violent, it just gives violent people access to violence.

So what's the problem with attempting to cut off said violent people's access to firearms? Obviously no solution is foolproof but surely there's some middle ground between ''foolproof solution'' and ''doing nothing''.

I'm not saying to take away all guns or whatever strawman is built up sometimes. But deny access to people who might be violent. It should be a privilege to own a gun, not a right. I know that would require a constitutional amendment, but it is insane to me that it's easier to buy a gun than a car, or that you can legally own an AR-15 or join the army but not drink.

[Xorzor]

So once again, a government agency fails to protect the American people.

Shame on the FBI for failing to protect the innocent. Shame on their cowardice and inaction.

Maybe if the shooter was anything but Caucasian you would have acted near-instantly!

[urasim]

So what's the problem with attempting to cut off said violent people's access to firearms?

If you're not a violent person, you're not going to attempt to purchase a gun. I'll expand on this below...

Obviously no solution is foolproof but surely there's some middle ground between ''foolproof solution'' and ''doing nothing''.

I've seen some good suggestions about mental health tests, but they can be tricked and normal people can snap at anytime and at anything. This instance could have been prevented if the FBI did their job. He was reported to the FBI and there was enough evidence to hold him for questioning, and well, they fucked up... The kids at the school even joked about him being the next school shooter. If any of them took the time to report it or help him, it might not have happened at all. The best preventative defense against someone like this is to embrace and love him. A happy person isn't going to do anything against anyone else.

I'm not saying to take away all guns or whatever strawman is built up sometimes. But deny access to people who might be violent. It should be a privilege to own a gun, not a right. I know that would require a constitutional amendment, but it is insane to me that it's easier to buy a gun than a car, or that you can legally own an AR-15 or join the army but not drink.

First, as stated above... A violent person is the only type of person who'd purchase a gun. There's a spectrum of violent tendencies, but it's almost impossible to screen for it. You'd need to have access to everyone the person knows and everything they've said and done.

Second, it's a privilege to own a car. Yet more people die by car than by gun. If you truly want to end senseless deaths, you'd advocate for more restrictions on cars as well.

Third, it wouldn't require a constitutional amendment. Do you think all the gun laws the US has is amended on the constitution? The constitution would be the longest document in history if all laws were just amendments to it.

Fourth, it's easier to buy a car than to buy a gun. I don't know where you heard this bullshit from, but if you have the cash you can walk up to the person selling the car and drive away within 10 minutes.

[Chaelexi]

I would argue it is a slightly different situation. Regulations are required because driving is a privilege given by the state and the regulations are to be followed if you are to drive on publicly funded roads.




I dont know how you change a culture, over time I guess. Then again, one only has to turn on the local news to figure out why we are all scared. The majority of the stories are about someone getting killed, or robbed or whatever. So the perception is everyone is bad.

The issue is that crime and fear sell, it gets TV ratings, it get people to buy security systems for everything(home, car, computer). Many crime rates have decreased over time except for one glaring stat in recent years, gun violence and even more disturbing is mass shootings. The scary part is that when Columbine happened it was a huge deal and discussed for weeks on the cause and effects it caused, where as this shooting will be just another shooting in a week. Americans have become numb to it until it directly affects someone they love. Then they rise up, but the rise up is not organised and ends up turning into gun control vs guns did not cause the issue debate we have here. But the thing is that the rest of the developed world has most of the same influences that America has, news, TV, movies, video games but they do not have the volume of gun violence that the US has.

I mean vehicles kill something like 3,000 people a day, and you are worried about 100 people killed with guns?

Do you want to save lives, or just complain about guns?

I think we should start with mental health and happiness first.

Comparing a means of transportation that is rarely used as a weapon(yes it does get used but how often do you hear of a mass car ramming) to something whose purpose is to be a weapon and is getting used on a daily basis to kill people and currently this year, once ever 1.5 days, for a mass shooting is a strawman argument. DO you want to save lives or walk around in an environment where the only way people feel safe is by carrying a weapon and have people shooting people every day....

Can you honestly answer what the difference is between the mass shooting rate in developed world vs the mass shooting rate in the United States?

The biggest one is the number of firearms that are available and the fact that they are able to left in the open, loaded with no proper storage, or even worse able to be carried loaded in the general public....... People will point to illegal immigrants but look at Germany with over 1 million refugees in makeshift living conditions. As a male, I would feel safer walking through there then rough areas in the US.

Once again this turns back to everywhere has similar mental and happiness issues, but the difference is that these people have easy access to guns in the US. If you remove the guns or at least control them you should see a decrease in the occurrence of these shootings.

[Casterbridge]

Smart? He's citing the false stat of "18th school shooting this year". Not smart when you fails to do research.

To be fair that number is being reported just about everywhere, hell I thought it was accurate until I started looking at it more and more. And honestly the true number is still ludicrous, 7 unquestionable school attack shootings where the intent was to kill, that's still pretty horrific.

Though it also goes to show the problem when trying to find facts on firearms in general, different people are calling different incidents different things. It's frustrating.

[Pickynerd]

So what's the problem with attempting to cut off said violent people's access to firearms? Obviously no solution is foolproof but surely there's some middle ground between ''foolproof solution'' and ''doing nothing''.

I'm not saying to take away all guns or whatever strawman is built up sometimes. But deny access to people who might be violent. It should be a privilege to own a gun, not a right. I know that would require a constitutional amendment, but it is insane to me that it's easier to buy a gun than a car, or that you can legally own an AR-15 or join the army but not drink.

Most people here have been going on about taking all guns, and it's not going to happen anytime soon, so it is a pointless topic there. Other than that, I am not a rich, and money makes laws.

[urasim]

So once again, a government agency fails to protect the American people.

Shame on the FBI for failing to protect the innocent. Shame on their cowardice and inaction.

Maybe if the shooter was anything but Caucasian you would have acted near-instantly!

No need to bring race into this. They fucked up, but we don't know where they fucked up. They gave us a bullshit excuse about not even knowing what his real name was, but we all know his real name was plastered everywhere he talked. He wasn't shy about it. He was reaching out for help. No one gave it to him.

[Kiljaedon]

https://www.statista.com/topics/1750...ime-in-the-us/

We can gather some data here, and I agree young adults with problems should not have any access to guns, let alone those who have mental issues. AR-15's and the like really have no place in any citizens hand.

Fact of the matter is guns don't make people violent, it just gives violent people access to violence.

AR-15 is actually weaker then several hunting rifles on the market. The wording semi automatic is misleading. Its one pull of the trigger for one bullet. It's either automatic or it is not. Silly word play to mislead people.

- - - Updated - - -

You literally just compared making toys to making a functioning firearm. Never give your opinion again, you're being very ignorant about this. The toys he made didn't have to fire a projectile at over 1000 mph. Plastic doesn't hold up very well at that stress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF9kmPQCH98

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. Never comment about something you have no knowledge of. Your ignorance should be the one questioned. That is just the lower receiver being printed. A full 3d printed gun has been created and shot over 300 bullets. Also you can use juse a CMC machine and pretty much create what modifications for just a few hundred bucks to alter a large range of weapons to be fully automatic.

[urasim]

disclaimer: I haven't followed this story much.

Apparently the shooter was a white nationalist but also was really into r/the_donald. So now you got reddit yelling at u/spez saying "he has blood on his hands, etc".

Yeah, and? If he came here and posted every once in a while, would we all be to blame as well? What if he played video games... Should we say that games are to blame?

Let the idiots be idiots about this. We should be better than that.

[Chaelexi]

AR-15 is actually weaker then several hunting rifles on the market. The wording semi automatic is misleading. Its one pull of the trigger for one bullet. It's either automatic or it is not. Silly word play to mislead people.

Yes it usually fires .223 caliber but it has plenty of stopping power the difference is a hunter rifle is large and not design for urban combat. Where as an Assault Rifle design is exactly that design for assaulting in multiple terrains and in an urban theatre. Also AR-15's can easily be modified to be full auto or have a bump fire stock added which makes them very close to full auto.

[Tiwack]

To be fair that number is being reported just about everywhere, hell I thought it was accurate until I started looking at it more and more. And honestly the true number is still ludicrous, 7 unquestionable school attack shootings where the intent was to kill, that's still pretty horrific.

Though it also goes to show the problem when trying to find facts on firearms in general, different people are calling different incidents different things. It's frustrating.

It's fully intentional by people to just sow chaos and ruin any meaningful discussion with semantics. That's what you do when you're frustrated because you don't see the flaws in your own arguments and hate seeing them rebuked. Good argumentation is at the heart of every matter. Perspective beyond our own ego-centered realities the challenge. Tempers get the best of us and too many are just looking for a good show or making sure them and theirs are cared for instead of looking at it as a whole.