Army of the Dead is a boring cooldown and doesn't need to be in BFA

[franksredhot]

You're not wrong. But I think it's okay to have some abilities like that.

This comment actually kind of changed my mind. I never thought of it that way, and for some reason I'm way more okay with it now that I've read your response.

I think I may just be concerned that (as of this moment) Apocalypse is not going to be in BfA. I am just prematurely assuming that they are going to justify its removal by having AOTD.

[Kaver]

Look at me I'm an holy is plenty enough reason to me.

I am sad when army is on cd

Don’t get me wrong I also love the “Look at me I’m an unholy DK” abilities, but I just think there should be some practical use. If army was a 3 minute CD it would be great. Although I think apocalypse and army are too similar. But the whole idea of summoning an army of ghouls is perfect and should definitely be kept

[Deleted]

Its one of the most iconic dk ability .I hope it always stay , maybe lower cooldown

5min cd would be good, alsong doesnt go to wod lvls of dmg, where just auto attacking would do like double dmg army did over 40seconds.

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I've never been a fan of Army of the Dead either. Would much rather see it gone and have Apocalypse stay instead.

id much much much rather keep army then apocalypse and preferbly for all specs; but have it be like wod where taunted for blood, and maybe slow for frost and does shadow dmg or dots for unholy.

[Deleted]

Don’t get me wrong I also love the “Look at me I’m an unholy DK” abilities, but I just think there should be some practical use. If army was a 3 minute CD it would be great. Although I think apocalypse and army are too similar. But the whole idea of summoning an army of ghouls is perfect and should definitely be kept

Very true. I'm still using old 4pc because I love my little fellas so much.


Probably best ignoring most of what I say

[Saberstrike]

both Army and Gargoyle feel awful because its literally press button -> receive damage if pet AI doesn't spaz out. At least with things like f. example ret wings you have to actually still use your rotation and it 'feels' more satisfying to see those bigger numbers come from your character;

Besides that. 3m CD? 10m CD!? It's just outrageously unfun. Esp. for PvPers. "Okay I have a battle every 30 seconds. I use gargoyle ... Now I don't have any DPS CDs and I'm walking around doing mediocre damage for the rest 66% of time. Yay." -- multiply that by 3 with the army. I feel like this cooldown + pet based design is what's keeping unholy unplayable in PvP, along with generally non-existent scaling and a need for buffs every patch to stay competitive.

As many people already said, Apocalypse is just Army but not designed 10 years ago. As things stand, just replacing Army with baseline Apocalypse would do unholy a lot of good in the long run. and maybe bringing hysteria back as a talent that replaces gargoyle.

[DeuZWw]

bring back the battle ress where the player would come back as a ghoul minion. lul that was kinda of fun.


anyway, i think AOTD could be baseline with Apocalypse being a talent that replaces it. since both are very similar.

i like the visual effect of AoTD, instantly summoning an army of dead from the grave is pretty awesome.


but to be fair, i think blizzard should redo completely their pet system. its a shame when you have pets, enslaved demons, undead army. and all they do is sit on the back of the boss on top of eachother turning into a visual nightmare of making no sense while hitting the boss.

i still think pets should always be at your side, attacking wherever you are and having some synergy or special move for when you use some special move.

[Ange]

AOTD as the best tank cooldown in game for Sartharion-3D-solo-tanking or as wipe prevention utility cooldown in dungeons was great and fun to use.

TODAYS 6-second-prepull AotD for ~1% DPS is just anoying to use. A 10min DPS cooldown not even providing additional DPS in many situations.

Todays AOTD is just a sad and broken relict from the past of the DK class. What is even more sad, that people believe the whole lore reasoning for its poor implementation - we all know how little development time the DK class got in alpha/beta in the previous expansions.

BFA seems like Legion2.0, so I just hope for the Frost spec in BFA. Appart from scaling issues in legion, the Frost spec is at least mechanical wise solid and fun to play.

[Jngizu]

This comment actually kind of changed my mind. I never thought of it that way, and for some reason I'm way more okay with it now that I've read your response.

I think I may just be concerned that (as of this moment) Apocalypse is not going to be in BfA. I am just prematurely assuming that they are going to justify its removal by having AOTD.

For me removing AoTD is again removing an iconic spell from the game. I agree they should make it better and Apocalypse is a better designed-spell. But I remember the first time I saw a DK use Army and thought it was the coolest shit in the game. I feel there's a line where min-maxing goes too far and we lose in class flair. Blizzard certainly crossed that line in Legion. I loved the idea of Reck+Death Wish as a warrior. You could almost get OS if you popped both at the wrong time, but it was part of the class fantasy. It was the closest we had to a berserker. Now Fury feels bland. Battle Cry just doesn't have the same feel to it. It's a boring spell.

DK, and UH in particular is one of the rare spec left in the game that kept some of its flair, in part because of spells like Army, so I wish they keep it. I do think they should tweak it though. 10m CD for that little damage and 3 runes is a bit much.

[kail]

On one hand, I'd miss the iconic spell that looked badass during the Wrath reveal trailer.

On the other hand, Apoc fulfills that same look IMO and should just stay baked into UH play.

[Rothulean1]

Having to worry about specific amounts of Wounds for Apoc is dumb. Just buff the hell out of AotD.

[nathrizarri]

http://www.wowhead.com/dressing-room...8tR8HYM8tR87md

use the animation:

locspellprecastboth

Imagine channelling army like this

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/dressing-room...8tR8HYM8tR87md

use the animation:

locspellprecastboth

Imagine channelling army like this

Unholy blizz-gods, grant us this sick animation

[Lithostrotos]

both Army and Gargoyle feel awful because its literally press button -> receive damage if pet AI doesn't spaz out. At least with things like f. example ret wings you have to actually still use your rotation and it 'feels' more satisfying to see those bigger numbers come from your character;

Besides that. 3m CD? 10m CD!? It's just outrageously unfun. Esp. for PvPers. "Okay I have a battle every 30 seconds. I use gargoyle ... Now I don't have any DPS CDs and I'm walking around doing mediocre damage for the rest 66% of time. Yay." -- multiply that by 3 with the army. I feel like this cooldown + pet based design is what's keeping unholy unplayable in PvP, along with generally non-existent scaling and a need for buffs every patch to stay competitive.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. The top DKs in the leaderboard play unholy and as far as I've heard, it's becoming more common in higher ratings. It being unplayable is a player skill issue for you. If you don't like pets doing damage because it doesn't feel as satisfying for you, pick a different class. Unholy is all about summoning undead minions to do your bidding.

[Saberstrike]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. The top DKs in the leaderboard play unholy and as far as I've heard, it's becoming more common in higher ratings. It being unplayable is a player skill issue for you. If you don't like pets doing damage because it doesn't feel as satisfying for you, pick a different class. Unholy is all about summoning undead minions to do your bidding.

The thing with that is it's not that unholy is better but that those players are tryhards on voice-comms abusing the fact that every spec and class has been streamlined to a point that you can p. much play anything in 3s and ride your healer to victory as long as you line your burst + cc correctly. Few crazy people got gladiator as outlaw / arcane / etc.; but that doesn't mean the spec is in a good place overall.

Unholy fares awfully in any more general PvP situation than getting carried by 2 teammates with perfect coordination. World PvP, BGs, 1v1 -- it just sucks at all of these, when put next to frost. All due to frost having similar brutal burst but on a 1m cooldown as opposed to 3, + much higher sustain when not pocketed.

[Gephyrophobia]

It's fine to have flavor spells, and the concept definitely fits the class. The issue is that there is absolutely nothing you do with the spell that can set you apart or be better/worse depending on how it's used. It's totally without strategy.

Good thing WoW isn't a strategy game.

[msdos]

BFA seems like Legion2.0, so I just hope for the Frost spec in BFA. Appart from scaling issues in legion, the Frost spec is at least mechanical wise solid and fun to play.

Frost is truly the ray of light shining through the proverbial darkness. You already know it's going to tear it the F up out of the gate in Mythic+.

Blood is nervous right now. It didn't get good treatment in Legion and it relies drastically on the artifact traits to even function properly. Still riddled with unusable talents.

Unholy is a head scratcher. Some of the placement of the talents and some of the talents themselves don't make sense and the spec in general feels bloated as hell. It has a super duper AOE build (epidemic, defile), a wound pop build, a garbage double minion "build", a DA build, an SR build, a Necrosis build which actually changes your rotation. Then you have sludge belcher which you pretty much have no choice but to pick, but it's in the same tier as Asphyxiate and some other garbage talent that is completely useless.
The choice is nice, but it seriously needs to be cleaned up.

[Deleted]

Good thing WoW isn't a strategy game.

Some big groups for weeklies seem turn based at times

[Dayn9]

Unholy fares awfully in any more general PvP situation than getting carried by 2 teammates with perfect coordination. World PvP, BGs, 1v1 -- it just sucks at all of these, when put next to frost. All due to frost having similar brutal burst but on a 1m cooldown as opposed to 3, + much higher sustain when not pocketed.

Unholy has other strengths. Unlike Frost, it can deal a good amount of damage outside melee. Unlike Frost, it actually has survival outside cooldowns (20% avoidance from weapon, larger ams, more damage reduction from IBF, access to Corpse Shield). Unlike Frost, it has a lot of reliable crowd control options such as DT Leap or Asphyxiate, whereas Frost has a stun that requires several seconds to hit or a blind very susceptible to breaking from your teammates' damage.

Frost is easier to play and has a better place at entry level in PvP, but Unholy isn't bad or unviable in the slightest. There is a reason if it has become the favored spec in higher ratings. Frost is a damage machine with a Death Grip, nothing else, and that damage was nerfed. If one of the specs is a bad design as far as PvP is concerned, it's Frost. It can never be balanced as its damage will always either be too strong (and, thus, oppressive) or too low, at which point you would rather bring an Unholy DK because they bring more than just damage.

[elaina]

They'll take it away when Necromancer goes live.

[Noxina]

I wish they just made T20 baseline. Getting to use it two-three times in a boss fight was amazing! And that is exactly how it should have been from the start, not just some pre-pull buttong to press to get a nice openerer burst.