Death Knights Shafted Once Again...

[Gaidax]

Shortsight on blizz part. From lore standpoint each race can be a dk. There is no difference from our pet dk and nazgrim for example.

I am pretty sure they considered it, but then they probably did not know how to spin the whole starting experience for them.

To say plainly - I am sure there are loopholes that would allow DK Void Elves, especially because a lot operates on "if there is a will there is a way" principle as a whole - that's why Void Elves exist to begin with, but the stretching lore-wise and game-wise that would be required for that was not worth the hassle especially because DK choices are so abundant anyway.

You will get your turn too. Ogre Death Knights!

[Aliven]

I am pretty sure they considered it, but then they probably did not know how to spin the whole starting experience for them.

To say plainly - I am sure there are loopholes that would allow DK Void Elves, especially because a lot operates on "if there is a will there is a way" principle as a whole - that's why Void Elves exist to begin with, but the stretching lore-wise and game-wise that would be required for that was not worth the hassle especially because DK choices are so abundant anyway.

You will get your turn too. Ogre Death Knights!

I wont ever make velf dk. Human or Undead only.

[Marrilaife]

Mages are open only when they make sense and they make sense for pretty much every race aside from Tauren (and bloody orcs, honestly, which is a case of huge stretch showing why these things should NOT be a thing).

No idea why back then they didn't give Orcs priests instead of mages. Since in WOD we've seen Orc culture how it was before they arrived on Azeroth and there were Orc priests. Don't think there were mages though. Ogres had mages, but not Orcs.

I still think several class combos are a stretch - for example Ironforge Dwarf mage and warlock. Dark Iron mage / lock - sure. But the bronzebeard Dwarves?

Or goblin shamans. Goblins have no tradition of shamanism. The way they exploit everything they touch reminds me of Garrosh' Dark Shamans and these were an abomination from the Earthen Ring's shamans' point of view.

There's a lot of inconsistency, for example apparently every race can learn to be a Monk, even Forsaken, Gnome or Void Elf. But suddenly not Goblin, Worgen or Lightforged Draenei. Logic.

[Noxina]

In the end there is only one thing that matters - Blizzards decision. If they decide tomorrow that they want to implement Void Elf DKs, they can. They just have to toss on some weak ass lore loopholes like "Belfs existed when the DKs where made, Belfs turned into Void Elfs, thus a Belf DK could have joined that expedition and then turned into a Void Elf DK".
And as far as I know, Zandalari have always existed? So no reason they shouldn't have had the opportunity as well.

But as I said, all up to Blizzard, as it is they who create all lore and could theoreticaly change what ever they want whenever they want.

I wouldn't mind Zandalari DKs atleast, would be great to be able to play my main class with one of the allied races (as I pretty much don't give two shits about alts), instead of just leveling up toons I will neglect the second they hit 110 because screw alts and the time they take to maintain.

[Marrilaife]

Death Knights are definitely not your casual Silvermoon citizens and would not be admitted to the club.

Umbric is an exile. Death Knights after Wrath of the Lich king are not exiles, they're often working for their old factions, how did Koltira and Thassarian end up in Andorhal if not because they were working for their respective factions. Yes, in Legion DKs went back to be more closed to themselves with the class orders (which seemingly was similar for every class), but after Legion is defeated the idea is class orders lose meaning as the faction takes priority, since we're going back to faction divide rather than members of the same class working together above faction boundaries (which was the case in Legion).

There was the same question about Demon Hunters - what with them now that their purpose is over and Legion is no more? And Blizzard said - exactly the same as with Death Knights, they go back to serve their own race / faction. Same thing with army of the light and lightforged draenei.

Where did you even get the idea Blood Elf Death Knights are banned from Silvermoon and exiled? The whole starting experience tells you you're going back to serve your faction, they might not like you, but they aren't gonna throw you out or execute you. It's a bit cheesy, but after you deliver the letter suddenly no one spits on you anymore or throws rotten eggs. And after that Death Knights served their factions for several expansions, so quite some time passed.

And it's even more justified in the Horde, since you're allied with the Forsaken (former members of the scourge), how is that different from Death Knights (also former members of the scourge?). Damn, the Horde current warchief, Sylvanas, was a personal banshee of Arthas until she managed to regain control. And one reason why Blood Elves are in the Horde is that Sylvanas helped them to get in after they felt betrayed and abandoned by the alliance. There are blood elf ambassadors in Undercity, in Sylvanas' room. Yes, scourge did destroy Silvermoon but playable Death Knights and playable Forsaken are not scourge anymore.

So the only reasoning here is "Umbric as a person did not allow blood elven death knights into his private club". Despite him chasing knowledge of a member of the scourge (Dark'khan's journal). His in-game attitude seemed more like "I don't care what it is or where did it come from, as long as it can be of help to me".

P.S. I'm just saying what I think is justified lorewise. I wouldn't even create a void elf DK myself, as my DK is Draenei and I'm satisfied with it. Even though Draenei DK are a stretch. Lorewise, the most sense to end up around plaguelands during the timeline DKs were created are Humans (both alliance kind and the ones that are Forsaken now), Blood Elves (citizens of Quel'Thalas with whichever name they were known under then, were they still High Elves before the transformation or already Blood Elves), and maybe other races that were in the area of Eastern Kingdoms, like Orcs from Arathi, Dwarves, maybe Gnomes.

We're saying allied races can't be DKs because they were sitting in their respective remote areas (like Highmountain Tauren in Highmountain), yet we have Goblin DKs and playable Goblins sat on Kezan until Deathwing nuked it at start of Cata. That didn't prevent them.

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But as I said, all up to Blizzard, as it is they who create all lore and could theoreticaly change what ever they want whenever they want.

Yep, indeed, they added Worgen DKs (and playable worgen are Gilneas people who were walled off, not some random worgen we saw in Shadowfang Keep or Grizzly Hills). Not even mentioning the whole thing with "worgen can't become undead but they can become dks, which are undead" that was just hand-waved away with "they were raised by more powerful members of the scourge or even Arthas himself, the val'kyrs in Silverpine in Cata are not powerful enough" (which I personally don't buy, either you're immune to undeath or you aren't).

So yeah, if they can justify Goblin of Kezan and Gilnean Worgen to be DKs, they could add anything they want. But they don't want to, that's all to it.

Demon Hunters are much much worse in a way the story they told leaves next to no space to add any other playable race for them.

[Steve French]

So to sum up all these arguments, DKs can't be allied races because "lore"? If that's the best you got I'd argue they will end up giving some allied races to DKs, blizz has made numerous changes to lore making in-game possibilities that you wouldn't normally find in warcraft lore. Saying, "no new DKs can ever or will ever exist" makes less sense to me than a retcon, all it takes is a little creativity.

[Eapoe]

New races have potential to be DKs, but they are going to be rare indeed. To go with lore, they have to be a race that wasn't prominent during the time of the LK. So things that could be viable are Dark Iron and Zandalari. None of the other new ones would work from an in game lore point.
VEs came about after the LK. Waaaaaaay after in terms of years. Same with the Highmountain and Nightborne. They could have been DKs if they hadn't been secluded on the Broken Isles all this time, 1 keeping to themselves and protected by a Black Dragon, and the other secluded and hidden under an arcane bubble.
If they added Vrykul, I could see them as DKs, as a section of them worked with the LK. Although part of their lore now being tied to Norse mythology-esque structure, it would seem that is unlikely as well.

[Steve French]

New races have potential to be DKs, but they are going to be rare indeed. To go with lore, they have to be a race that wasn't prominent during the time of the LK. So things that could be viable are Dark Iron and Zandalari. None of the other new ones would work from an in game lore point.
VEs came about after the LK. Waaaaaaay after in terms of years. Same with the Highmountain and Nightborne. They could have been DKs if they hadn't been secluded on the Broken Isles all this time, 1 keeping to themselves and protected by a Black Dragon, and the other secluded and hidden under an arcane bubble.
If they added Vrykul, I could see them as DKs, as a section of them worked with the LK. Although part of their lore now being tied to Norse mythology-esque structure, it would seem that is unlikely as well.

We know where the first dks came from, this point has been argued to death already. Where in the lore does it say no other DKs can ever or will ever exist?

[ohwell]

You can keep telling yourself that, but reality is yes - Lightforged, Void Elves and Nightborne simply did not exist when your DK initial quest took place.

Lore is already spotty, no need to make it worse just because someone wants something. I want to play Draenei Warlock, guess I have to sit down and wait until they make Eredar allied race if that ever happens.

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As long as that race existed or was present in Eastern Kingdoms at a time it would not be an issue to add them as Death Knight choice, for example Dark Iron can potentially be added there.

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This pretty much, but I am sure that eventually they will cave totally and just sweep the whole thing under the rug. We will have Death Knights eating void food, Draenei Warlocks fighting felfire with felfire and what not.

I, personally, can understand the frustration of some being exempt from the whole Sex Elves party, but I can't help and think it's a good thing for the game overall and the tables will turn eventually because these are very first allied races and if it goes well then the cat's out of the bag and who knows what we will have there... Vrykul or hell Valkyr Death Knights and Eredar Locks? May be a reality in patch 11.2.

Void elves can easily be death knights. If a blood elf can be the class a void elf can. The only exception is paladin I'd say.

[Eapoe]

We know where the first dks came from, this point has been argued to death already. Where in the lore does it say no other DKs can ever or will ever exist?

Well, considering they are agents of the Lich King who broke free from his will (much like Sylvanas) I'd say they are in pretty short supply. As Bolvar took over the role, he is keeping the existing scourge in check and not creating more for his undead army.

[Oneirophobia]

Well, considering they are agents of the Lich King who broke free from his will (much like Sylvanas) I'd say they are in pretty short supply. As Bolvar took over the role, he is keeping the existing scourge in check and not creating more for his undead army.

However, you clearly raise dozens of death knights with the order hall. You even get an NPC who you give order hall resources to so he can raise fallen heroes on the broken shore into more death knights to send on missions, which would include dead pandaren and dead nightborne. The velves and lightforged never end up at the broken shore, it would make sense why they can't be death knights.

[Steve French]

Well, considering they are agents of the Lich King who broke free from his will (much like Sylvanas) I'd say they are in pretty short supply. As Bolvar took over the role, he is keeping the existing scourge in check and not creating more for his undead army.

Arthas isn't the only one capable of raising powerful undead.

[Super Kami Dende]

We know where the first dks came from, this point has been argued to death already. Where in the lore does it say no other DKs can ever or will ever exist?

No where. Though requiring a completely new intro for new Race DK's seems like pointless resource spending. It's nothing to do with simply "no new DKS" and everything to do with the entire starting intro not making sense.

[Steve French]

However, you clearly raise dozens of death knights with the order hall. You even get an NPC who you give order hall resources to so he can raise fallen heroes on the broken shore into more death knights to send on missions, which would include dead pandaren and dead nightborne. The velves and lightforged never end up at the broken shore, it would make sense why they can't be death knights.

All they need to do is die for it to be possible IMO. You already made the case for it, we can seemingly make new dks out of anyone who has been killed. Can't warlocks raise DKs in lore(not in-game)? Wasn't gul'dan responsible for the first DKs? Might be wrong about this.

[Eapoe]

Arthas isn't the only one capable of raising powerful undead.

No, he's not. Those that are though, are Sylvanas Valkyr, which they can't do anymore (hence her questline in Stormheim), Helya (who actually can only give life back to the dead, not make undead), and Bolvar (the current LK) who I've already said won't do it.
The Deqth Knights of lore are those who were raised by the LK, and directly are only those who had ties with him (opposing or allied races) and therefore can't be races that come up in later parts of the overarcing story, such as VEs and NB.
If races like Tuskar, Oracles, Frenzyheart, and such up to LK ever become allied races, then they have a shot at being DKs.

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However, you clearly raise dozens of death knights with the order hall. You even get an NPC who you give order hall resources to so he can raise fallen heroes on the broken shore into more death knights to send on missions, which would include dead pandaren and dead nightborne. The velves and lightforged never end up at the broken shore, it would make sense why they can't be death knights.

As far as I know, those are all technically recruitments. Not raising new ones.

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Void elves can easily be death knights. If a blood elf can be the class a void elf can. The only exception is paladin I'd say.

Except, as stated, VEs were not around at the time DKs were created.

[Everwake]

Eventually they will run out of ideas and do a "Return of the Lich King!!!" expansion, at which point there will be new death knights created from every race.

[Ehrenpanzer]

To be honest just let every race be a Deathknight, and have the starting zone be, "Experience the legacy of the Ebon Blade"

Make every zone "Chapters" and then the levelling old-world-stays-the-same-stuck-in-time-mess is solved too.

Done. What up.

IMO at this point in the game, restricting classes to specific races is beyond silly.

[Agree the DK]

They didn't exist during BC, but that's not stopping them from going to Outland to fight Illidan

They didn't exist during Wrath (obviously), but they still need to stop the Lich King.

The whole, "The lore says they didn't exist/hadn't arrived" thing is bullshit.

[AlmightyGerkin]

So if I kill a Lightforge Draenei and use Raise Ally is he/she technically a Death Knight?

[Steve French]

No where. Though requiring a completely new intro for new Race DK's seems like pointless resource spending. It's nothing to do with simply "no new DKS" and everything to do with the entire starting intro not making sense.

What's the whole point of the DK starting zone? I've went through it many times and sure it tells how you became a DK but who cares at this point? We all know the story by now, if you don't you can make a normal dk, all allied race dks just get to start at 20 or 60 and skip it for all I care. Would anyone honestly be against this that would actually play a DK?

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No, he's not. Those that are though, are Sylvanas Valkyr, which they can't do anymore (hence her questline in Stormheim), Helya (who actually can only give life back to the dead, not make undead), and Bolvar (the current LK) who I've already said won't do it.
The Deqth Knights of lore are those who were raised by the LK, and directly are only those who had ties with him (opposing or allied races) and therefore can't be races that come up in later parts of the overarcing story, such as VEs and NB.
If races like Tuskar, Oracles, Frenzyheart, and such up to LK ever become allied races, then they have a shot at being DKs.

How does this account for the DKs we ourselves raise as part of our DK campaign? Either we did it, or the LK(bolvar) empowered us to do it, indirectly making new dks.