I Cant Wait For the Raiding Scene To Die

[xcitng]

How can you be playing the same game for 12 years without wanting "change" to happen?
MMO's are a dying breed.
If this keeps up we will end up in disaster. Extinction.

MMO's are made out of "niches". Several groups of people with many different niches.
All developers need to do is give platforms so we can roleplay our niche gameplay.

Some people want to roleplay a bandit.
Some people want to be famous on the server.
Some people want to roleplay a king leading an armada.
Some people like to roleplay a merchant.

Do MMO's today give platforms to all this niches? No, they give us "raids" and thats it...

You think wow would be as successful/last 13 years if it had no type of raiding? MMO genre isn't dying because of change, its dying because people don't have the time to commit to MMOs, when you can get more satisfaction with a lot less play time & there is so many great games being released so often, sinking time into 1 game isn't an option for people.

If the games end game was PvP, it would have a playerbase at 100k nowadays, not in the millions.

[Dequanacus]

The developers don't decide what sticks in an MMO, the playerbase does. Raiding equals player retention, therefore MMOs receive a focus on raids. MMOs that do not do so generally do not hold players very well because players want raiding.

[Saberstrike]

Raids aren't the problem; The reward structure is. If PvP / 5-mans / Crafting were competitive with raiding in regards to rewards per time spent it won't be such a big deal. As is, raiding being the ONLY source of decent rewards breeds a certain type of player that destroys a sense of server community and reduces it to 10-25 people cliques.

Raids can stay. But they really need to tone down the rewards. They should be 'a' thing to do, not 'the' thing to do.

In an ideal world there would be a relatively easy to achieve 'item level ceiling' followed by a bunch of content like M+ / Arena / Mythic raids (with no gear drops) tuned around it that rewards transmog / titles / prestige / etc.; But unfortunately ye average pleb player just wants to increase their numbers, rather than play a game where skill decides who's progressing.

If there was a game with GW2's progression system but WoW's world and combat I'd jump on it instantly. What I'm seeing so far in BfA proves that Blizz agrees with the general thinking of how there should be more alternative paths of progression to raiding. I just hope they deliver and it won't turn into Apexis Crystals 2.0, where you can either spend 2 weeks grinding for 1 item or just do an LFR and come out with 3-5 items despite being dead for 90% of it.

[Seethe]

Yes, MMO's with gameplay or graphics that make my eyes bleed --__--
And thats a maybe.
What other MMOs are you talking about?

Or you just said that for the lolz?

Black Desert makes your eyes bleed?

[PACOX]

GW2 says what up.

[Veyne]

I refuse to believe that...MMO's are only a dying breed because they REFUSE to evolve.
If what it needs to evolve into is activities that dont take a lot of time then be it.

But i refuse to believe MMO's are a dying breed.

Literally every MMO that has "evolved" to what you want has "died" in its tracks. As a matter of fact, before WoW, what you want is what was commonplace in the MMO scene, a long-ass time ago.

The playerbase has changed. You're a dying breed.

- - - Updated - - -

How can you be playing the same game for 12 years without wanting "change" to happen?
MMO's are a dying breed.
If this keeps up we will end up in disaster. Extinction.

MMO's are made out of "niches". Several groups of people with many different niches.
All developers need to do is give platforms so we can roleplay our niche gameplay.

Some people want to roleplay a bandit.
Some people want to be famous on the server.
Some people want to roleplay a king leading an armada.
Some people like to roleplay a merchant.

Do MMO's today give platforms to all this niches? No, they give us "raids" and thats it...

The modern MMO has largely evolved past the raid and has focused on even smaller, more focused, less time consuming content.

- - - Updated - - -

No there not, not even close.

Provide some actually proof people are playing MMO's less now than 10 years ago.

I mean, people have been "ditching" WoW in "droves" since cataclysm, and yet the peak numbers of active players of the biggest MMORPGS around don't even add up to WoW in it's prime. World of Warcraft was -ALWAYS- the exception. MMORPGS have ALKWAYS been an extremely small niche. And that niche has been, for better or for worse, largely overtaken by the MOBA scene. *shudder*

[Mojo03]

He wants a great MMO where the main focus isn't raiding.

I'm with him. Raiding isn't fun and it's too time intensive and Blizzard has raiding tunnel vision (although have gotten better).

The model that will overtake it is a convincing living, breathing world/universe, with a creation element (vehicles, housing, fashion, etc.). Just no one has done it well yet and technology might not totally be there. Star Citizen wants to be it, we'll see.

[Jtbrig7390]

I mean, people have been "ditching" WoW in "droves" since cataclysm, and yet the peak numbers of active players of the biggest MMORPGS around don't even add up to WoW in it's prime. World of Warcraft was -ALWAYS- the exception. MMORPGS have ALKWAYS been an extremely small niche. And that niche has been, for better or for worse, largely overtaken by the MOBA scene. *shudder*

You do realize there is 100's of MMO's out there and people are playing them right? Just because WoW lost some numbers it doesn't mean MMO's are dying and last checked besides Runescape the only other MMO that reported actual numbers was WoW before WOD.

Just using Runescape as a example it is 2:12AM EST and there is 63k people playing RS3 and 42K playing OSRS for a total of 105k people. This isn't even prime time where those numbers will be higher.

Last reported FFXIV sold like 7 million copy's of the game.

MMO's are doing fine the difference between now and WoW's Prime is there is a lot of choice and people are spread out.

MMO's are not going anywhere even more so since now Consoles have them as well.

[Heladys]

No, get lost with your nonsense.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

a large majority enjoys them.

How is this true when it's only a small minority who do raid(in WoW, not counting LFR)?

[Jtbrig7390]

How is this true when it's only a small minority who do raid(in WoW, not counting LFR)?

Because counting LFR (Like blizzard does because its raiding) a vast majority do them. Above LFR yes it drops off hard and that is the MAIN reason why LFR is there.

[Super Kami Dende]

Yeah Imagine a game with No Endgame PvE content! It would totally thrive. Oh wait, Black Desert does exist.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

I mean you have black dessert and a few others where raiding isn't the main scene...but the thing is that just means theres pvp so you are removing a huge chunk of your potential player base by not having raids...and for the life of me despite BD having great combat it just becomes boring with grinding being your only means of content until you can pvp

[Taeldorian]

How is this true when it's only a small minority who do raid(in WoW, not counting LFR)?

Why are you not counting LFR? I don’t touch LFR but a ton of people do. You’re literally asking me why my statement is true but then cut out a portion of it that makes it true. LFR is raiding whether we like it or not and a lot of players participate.

[Schattenlied]

Its for the greater good...

Yeah, because only what you like is the greater good and fuck everyone else's preferences.

You are so full of yourself it's not even funny anymore... You don't know what the greater good is, you are one person who doesn't have a damn clue what the big picture looks like. If this is your "greater good", go support the other MMOs that are already doing it (BDO, Archeage, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Runescape, all seem to fit your needs more or less) instead of yelling at Blizzard to change, because Blizzard wont, because no one has made it work yet and they aren't going to take a risk that will almost assuredly fail. It doesn't matter how much you whine and complain, they will not take a risk that will cost them millions upon millions of dollars if it fails when it has a very high chance of failure.

- - - Updated - - -

How can you be playing the same game for 12 years without wanting "change" to happen?

Have you actually played Vanilla? TBC? Change has happened, quite a lot of it actually... Just because it didn't change in the direction YOU want doesn't mean change didn't happen.

Some people want to roleplay a bandit.
Some people want to be famous on the server.
Some people want to roleplay a king leading an armada.
Some people like to roleplay a merchant.

Do MMO's today give platforms to all this niches? No, they give us "raids" and thats it...

Yes, there are... We have told you, repeatedly, that there are other games that DO allow you do do these things, we have told you what games they are. Go and damn play them.

[Talvindius]

Its for the greater good...

WoW, im starting to sound like a supremacist dictator

You sound more like an angry troll TBH.

Luckily for you this is the perfect forum for angry trolls.

[Chaelexi]

This mentality is what keeps the genre from evolving.

"leave WoW alone"
"nothing needs to change"

WoW has one of the largest market shares, a large portion of that raids.... Raids allow story telling, why would they abandon this marketshare they have? Please explain this further than you current I don't like raiding, me want PVP.

[Deleted]

WoW has one of the largest market shares, a large portion of that raids.... Raids allow story telling, why would they abandon this marketshare they have? Please explain this further than you current I don't like raiding, me want PVP.

I just think MMO's in general would be in a different place today if raids were not the "end-all-be-all" (the ultimate form of gameplay in the genre)
If raids were not the "end-all-be-all" maybe the devs would implement more RPG elements to the game.
More platforms to roleplay by a niche community.

A lot more platforms given to the players to roleplay...whatever. So many things we could roleplay.

I'm pretty sure the MMO genre is formed by various "niche communities".
Everyone wants something different from the MMO they play. We already know this from WoW.

And instead of devs giving platforms to roleplay...they give us more raids as the ultimate form of content, the "end-all-be-all".

[Sparda Strife]

A lot more platforms given to the players to roleplay...whatever. So many things we could roleplay.

Your issue is that, you want the game to be like a pen and paper game. In an MMO that´s something almost impossible to achieve. Those who had tried to do something similar are way dead, the mayority of the players of these games aren´t roleplayers.

If you want to roleplay, you can, no one is stopping you. but if you want a game that encourages that, you shouldn´t look to forward to a MMO, there are NWN1&2 servers that are far better in that aspect than WoW.

[Aliven]

No now OP would say nonsense about RP instead of transmog and being unique snowflake?