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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren-dorei View Post
    Provide a valid and clear source from Blizzard to back your bold statement. Otherwise, I will not take your tantrums and speculation as a fact.
    Tantrums and speculation?! LOL, dude, you crack me up everytime.

    No one here takes your RP obsession as a fact either, just a heads up. Everything you tend to say is personal hyperbole based on your raging hard-on for Void Elves. Like especially how you repeat the words, "The Void Elves are the first mortals to defy the whispers of the Void..." that's not true. When someone called you on it, you threw a tantrum. I can link that post if a source is needed.

    I really wish people would stop taking datamined info as gospel. We don't know the context of how Void Elves are becoming "endless" in BFA. So when that valid and clear source is available to show these are High Elves, I'll just consider all this gibberish as a tantrum until we have solid proof one way or another.
    Last edited by Enkrypt; 2018-02-17 at 12:08 AM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Embracing a dark power out of pragmatism is not the high elven mindset though.
    High elves were always pragmatic, but they also had morals and a nobility to them. I would agree that generally blood elves are more pragmatic culturally, but people tend to forget that they are the same race, so if a blood elf desires to research void magic, you can bet there would be high elves with the same desire too.

    Now it may be that after TFT, blood elves could research more "dangerous" forms of magic more openly, but judging by what that high elf said, I would guess that, the desire has always been present, just more fearful to do so.. they do say


    It could mean any number of things, but there is a sense that the door has been opened for high elves to study this magic without fear of alienation, exile or isolation from either blood elf or high elf society... as they were already alienated from blood elf society, I assume it is more likely they are referring to high elf society, they may now study this magic without fear of isoaltion or exile.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Hsnip.
    Those are not typical high elves and you know it, high elves are not pragmatists as a rule of thumb, the very reason they are still high elves to begin with, is because they are idealists.

    Though there was a character who walked a very similar path like Alleria from Quel'thalas, his name was Kael'thas Sunstrider, he too made a bargain to save his people and got lost in the end.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Those are not typical high elves and you know it, high elves are not pragmatists as a rule of thumb, the very reason they are still high elves to begin with, is because they are idealists.

    Though there was a character who walked a very similar path like Alleria from Quel'thalas, his name was Kael'thas Sunstrider, he too made a bargain to save his people and got lost in the end.
    I disagree, that's just speculative, the race is portrayed to be pragmatic in general, but it's not an either or, it's a scale, their a lines that a high elf won't cross that a blood would, and it appears the reverse may be true.. depending on the circumstance and the blood elf.

    Blizzard seemed to frame thalassian elves coming into void differently than they came into fel. There is a difference. Void is framed as more noble, selfless - a route Alleria takes to save her world and her son, a route Umbric takes to defend Silvermoon, versus the issue of fel where it was framed as self preservation/survival to sate a chronic addiction, but one that wasn't fatal. Also blizzard showed blood elves using fel to suck life out of people to sate their thrist - i.e. self centred in addition to all the kinds of wrong they felt fel usage was. Void usage by Alleria and umbric was never shown to be for self preservation, involve sucking life out of others to feed one's self - you can see how a high elf would have had a moral issue with the fel usage done in TFT to TBC even IF it would have made them defend themselves. Void usage by the void elves isn't shown in that light.

    High elves are also pragmatic, they just won't cross that line their friends crossed in TFT, and as this void magic is shown to be different. I would not interpret TFT - TBC as some sort of evidence that they are not in general.
    Last edited by Mace; 2018-02-17 at 12:27 AM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I disagree, that's just speculative, the race is portrayed to be pragmatic in general, but it's not an either or, it's a scale, their a lines that a high elf won't cross that a blood would, and it appears the reverse may be true.. depending on the circumstance and the blood elf.
    When? I don't recall a single time they were actually seen as pragamtic, the whole reason they became exiles was because they chose idealism over pragmatism.


    High elves are also pragmatic, they just won't cross that line their friends crossed in TFT, and as this void magic is shown to be different. I would not interpret TFT - TBC as some sort of evidence that they are not in general.
    The void is different indeed, it is more corrupting and far more destructive than fel energy and more difficult to handle, leading to eventual insanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Void is framed as more noble, selfless - a route Alleria takes to save her world and her son, a route Umbric takes to defend Silvermoon, versus the issue of fel where it was framed as self preservation/survival to sate a chronic addiction, but one that wasn't fatal. Also blizzard showed blood elves using fel to suck life out of people to sate their thrist - i.e. self centred in addition to all the kinds of wrong they felt fel usage was. Void usage by Alleria and umbric was never shown to be for self preservation, involve sucking life out of others to feed one's self - you can see how a high elf would have had a moral issue with the fel usage done in TFT to TBC even IF it would have made them defend themselves. Void usage by the void elves isn't shown in that light.
    The void is not noble, neither is embracing it at the very least it is the same, though actually worse due to the far more severe side effects of its use. Not to mention the blood elves never fully embraced fel magic, those that did were put to the sword.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    When? I don't recall a single time they were actually seen as pragamtic, the whole reason they became exiles was because they chose idealism over pragmatism.




    The void is different indeed, it is more corrupting and far more destructive than fel energy and more difficult to handle, leading to eventual insanity.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The void is not noble, neither is embracing it at the very least it is the same, though actually worse due to the far more severe side effects of its use. Not to mention the blood elves never fully embraced fel magic, those that did were put to the sword.
    I ddin't say the void was noble, I was pointing out the differences between the Thalassian elves' experience to highlight that it is not an absence of pragmatism that caused the high elves not to follow the blood elven direction.

    Also High elf pragmatism is shown very often in the races history, especially their interactions with humans, are you failing to keep in mind that they are the same race. A high elf is quite capable of behaving like a blood elf and vice versa. The moral standards they abide by set them apart, and not by much either, one is just more noble/moral than the other, but they are on the same side of the scale. Like Democrats and republicans are both on the right, just that reps moreso than dems.

    There is a moral difference also in the void and fel experiences, that also is clear, and even if you disagree, the fact that the high elves are willing to go there is evidence of their intrinsic pragmatism.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post

    There is a moral difference also in the void and fel experiences, that also is clear, and even if you disagree, the fact that the high elves are willing to go there is evidence of their intrinsic pragmatism.
    I don't even see the slightest hint of pragmatism in their text snippet, just a thirst for forbidden power, which is more or less hypocrisy nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing noble in embracing the void, nothing self sacrificing, it isn't even necessary, to ensure the survival of the world, actually quite the opposite. Using the void to this particular extent is far too dangerous to the point, that void elves are nothing but an anomaly, while pretty much every other being that has ever existed fell to its whispers and the fact that Alleria herself knows that she will fall.

  8. #128
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    I just want to chime in and say all those group of elves by locus walker say the same exact thing, doesn't matter if it's from the blue eye high elf wayfarers or green eye silvermoon w/e.

    They regurgitate the same NPC lines if you keep clicking them, each one, it's not specific to the High Elf wayfarers, and in turn they will say the things that the Silvermoon people say.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    I don't even see the slightest hint of pragmatism in their text snippet, just a thirst for forbidden power, which is more or less hypocrisy nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing noble in embracing the void, nothing self sacrificing, it isn't even necessary, to ensure the survival of the world, actually quite the opposite. Using the void to this particular extent is far too dangerous to the point, that void elves are nothing but an anomaly, while pretty much every other being that has ever existed fell to its whispers and the fact that Alleria herself knows that she will fall.
    The indication of pragmatism, is not in the text, but the fact they are willing to delve into the void. I'ts like you're trying very hard to mis-understand what I'm trying to say. As if you can't see further than your own conclusions about how hypocritical the high elves are which is not what I was addressing you about.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    The indication of pragmatism, is not in the text, but the fact they are willing to delve into the void. I'ts like you're trying very hard to mis-understand what I'm trying to say. As if you can't see further than your own conclusions about how hypocritical the high elves are which is not what I was addressing you about.
    Embracing the void is not pragmatic, for the mere fact that they are in no situation that would demand them doing so, they simply do it because they want to. So I see nothing noble, nothing self sacrificing and most certainly nothing pragmatic in their decision to wield the void to this extent.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I just want to chime in and say all those group of elves by locus walker say the same exact thing, doesn't matter if it's from the blue eye high elf wayfarers or green eye silvermoon w/e.

    They regurgitate the same NPC lines if you keep clicking them, each one, it's not specific to the High Elf wayfarers, and in turn they will say the things that the Silvermoon people say.
    Ah, good catch - serves to show they are pretty much the same race/people. Philosophy and politics separating the two main grous, and this new group finding a shared common ground they are one over, finding acceptance in the allinace but still distinct from the high elves.
    @Combatbulter IT is also noted that while some high elves become void elves, not all do, so far we aren't shown high elves to be at odds or disapproving of the void elves, but they may very well be. So you can't conclude all high elves are being hypocritical. Afterall, blood elves don't approve of void magic, yet blood elves become void elves, if blood elves can become void elves without the approval of their race, it stands to reason that high elves too can become void elves without the approval of their race.

    I am not saying high elves approve of void maigc, but I am also not saying they do not. I am merely pointing out that the morality invovled in the adoption of void magic by the void elves is very different from that of the blood elves with fel magic in TFT -TBC and also fromt hat of the Illidari. I could see the high elves not being as disapproving over the void elves as they were over their colleagues on fel. I can also see how some blood elves might view it as hypocritical and can easily see how and why some high elves will entirely disagree, and some might agree. Because of how they came to void.

    Void is a dangerous thing, I don't see high elves flocking to study it at all like Ravenmoon seems to be suggesting, just because it is quite dangerous, however I don't see them feeling it is the same thing as what happened with fel usage in TBC either. Blood elves avoid it generally because they feel it is too dangerous to the sunwell, not because they are reluuctant to study dangerous magics, high elves aovid it because it is dangerous and they are reluctant to puruse dangeorous magics. Only the few amongst each group go there, and they go their in purusit of knowledge and power to defend and save.

    Hence the alliance. I do not think it's rubbish lore. I think it has that logic to it, and it fits, while giving the alliance elves a more dangerous edge than we are use to, almostsimilar to how the night elves looked dangerous in wc3, But we know how that turned out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Embracing the void is not pragmatic, for the mere fact that they are in no situation that would demand them doing so, they simply do it because they want to. So I see nothing noble, nothing self sacrificing and most certainly nothing pragmatic in their decision to wield the void to this extent.
    I'm not speaking in absolutes Combat, it is why I used the term "indiciation" rather than "clear evidence".

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Not just that. Their connection with the Ethereals means that the Void Elves were the result of the people who wanted both Ethereals AND High Elves as playable.
    In my case I am a die-hard Ethereal fan and like the Elf aesthetics. In the end, I got a sweet deal. Not to mention that I used to be a Blood Elf Shadow Priest before switching to Alliance a few years ago.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    In my case I am a die-hard Ethereal fan and like the Elf aesthetics. In the end, I got a sweet deal. Not to mention that I used to be a Blood Elf Shadow Priest before switching to Alliance a few years ago.
    If you were a die-hard Ethereal fan, you probably wouldn't consider yourself sated over blue blood elves.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by ninthbelief View Post
    If you were a die-hard Ethereal fan, you probably wouldn't consider yourself sated over blue blood elves.
    Being a die-hard fan is not something you prove, especially on forums. Also, the "blue blood elves" satisfy the flavour and the cosmic aspect of the race, even if they don't satisfy the flesh-less aesthetic.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Being a die-hard fan is not something you prove, especially on forums. Also, the "blue blood elves" satisfy the flavour and the cosmic aspect of the race, even if they don't satisfy the flesh-less aesthetic.
    You proved that you weren't, not that you were.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by ninthbelief View Post
    You proved that you weren't, not that you were.
    Sorry to disappoint you but the argument "You like Void Elves, therefore you could not be die hard Ethereal fan" is pure garbage. Try to say anything logical other than simply being toxic.

  17. #137
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    It is likely the Void Elves will be expanded a bit during BfA, but then forgotten.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It is likely the Void Elves will be expanded a bit during BfA, but then forgotten.
    They are too popular for that.

  19. #139
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They are too popular for that.
    That's the declared point of allied race - something they can just toss to the wolves after expansion they were part of is over. I imagine if Void Elves would end up being something silly like 30% of the Alliance OR some super relevant content to Void Elves (which honestly is very likely), then they will get thrown a bone or two.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The blood elves drained mana to survive
    That was propaganda based on the fear that they would die without the Sunwell, and was used to justify leeching mana off creatures and using fel energy. IIRC, there were NPC events in Silvermoon were dissenters would be arrested and exiled by Lorthemar after calling out this lie. And it was a lie, because the High Elves survived by practicing restraint, mediation, and getting magic from trinkets instead of creatures.

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