Bring back ranged survival!!!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Maybe people don't raid with survival because they don't raid with a spec they never play.

maybe they don't but we have no way of knowing that one way or the other so the point is mute.

[MikeBogina]

Pretty sure having a melee spec makes the class much more versatile and it used to be a thing back in vanilla(my first toon was a melee hunter)... respec marksmen if you want to shoot stuff.

[Big Mama]

Now they will create a bullshit spec from it. The current survival was a lot better than most haters were bitchin about. It sure as hell wasn't good and fitting for raiding but it was a fun spec to level with. I don't know why so little people cannot see that. I guess they just changed their spec during the first 6 months of Legion and were disgusted by the lack of their AP (now there's plenty). The idea of a melee hunter was great. However should have been designed better. I am sad to see the spec getting another massive makeover. Wasn't necessary.

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Anyway I will give it a shot in BfA. But I doubt that any of these loosers who were the loudest to bitch about the spec during the whole Legion will play the new survival hunter in BfA. They will just stick with their Loque'nahak...

[endersblade]

You guys fucked up melee survival that me and a shitload of other people really, truly enjoyed. The BfA survival is a bag of crap on fire.
Thanks for that. I hope blizzard fucks up BM and MM, just so you get how it feels.

This. I've been wanting a melee hunter for years, I wanted SV to be like FFXI's Beastmaster. Melee + Pet. Now we finally get it and all anyone does is bitch about it.

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Pretty sure having a melee spec makes the class much more versatile and it used to be a thing back in vanilla(my first toon was a melee hunter)... respec marksmen if you want to shoot stuff.

Melee hunters have NEVER been a thing. Just because they could carry melee weapons doesn't even remotely mean they could pull off viable DPS as melee. They only had like, what, 3 melee abilities, and one of them was wing clip?

[Donkeywing]

maybe they don't but we have no way of knowing that one way or the other so the point is mute.

You just buried your own argument. Your limited interpretation of the stats is based on fuck all and I'm right because you eliminated your challenge yourself.

[Ashcrack]

Melee hunters have NEVER been a thing. Just because they could carry melee weapons doesn't even remotely mean they could pull off viable DPS as melee. They only had like, what, 3 melee abilities, and one of them was wing clip?

Yeah... raptor strike/wing clip/mongoose bite and I swear we had something that could only be used after a dodge or parry? Wing clip is the only thing I ever really used and even then it was only in pvp back when we had a dead zone

Survival should've stayed ranged while being more focused on traps/grenades/bombs and BM should've been melee... like did they just forget about warcraft 3? I would've loved to play a spec that was a more fleshed out version of the beast master from wc3. I really feel like it was a missed opportunity.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You just buried your own argument. Your limited interpretation of the stats is based on fuck all and I'm right because you eliminated your challenge yourself.

It's quite simple really. your trying to make a claim with no facts to back it up, if you were saying that people don't like to raid as survival that's fine but saying that no one plays it is competently unknowable when you don't have any proof to back that up outside of raid numbed. you can spout all the hog wash you wan't but at the end of the day you have no proof and are just not willing to admit that the numbers you have are a subset of the game and not the whole game.

[Donkeywing]

It's quite simple really. your trying to make a claim with no facts to back it up, if you were saying that people don't like to raid as survival that's fine but saying that no one plays it is competently unknowable when you don't have any proof to back that up outside of raid numbed. you can spout all the hog wash you wan't but at the end of the day you have no proof and are just not willing to admit that the numbers you have are a subset of the game and not the whole game.

What's simple about this is that you destroyed your argument and therefore your challenge. If the challenge in favour of a limited interpretation fails then wider interpretation is assumed. Because if there's no reason popping up as to why there would be more than minimal variance (and no reason explaining alleged insane deviations in this case), and no reason to expect either, then the logical conclusion is that the wider interpretation applies. Especially given the context of this game, in the case of raid stats over an entire expansion with shifting balances and especially in cases where no further information exists.

Just listen to yourself rambling about proof. Your requirements are insane, you've got nothing to show for and you cannot even defend your own argument. You're in denial about the state of the spec if you really need to see absolute proof in order to believe what is wellknown.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What's simple about this is that you destroyed your argument and therefore your challenge. If the challenge in favour of a limited interpretation fails then wider interpretation is assumed. Because if there's no reason popping up as to why there would be more than minimal variance (and no reason explaining alleged insane deviations in this case), and no reason to expect either, then the logical conclusion is that the wider interpretation applies. Especially given the context of this game, in the case of raid stats over an entire expansion with shifting balances and especially in cases where no further information exists.

Just listen to yourself rambling about proof. Your requirements are insane, you've got nothing to show for and you cannot even defend your own argument. You're in denial about the state of the spec if you really need to see absolute proof in order to believe what is wellknown.

bla bla bla either show some short of stats to cover the rest of the game or buzz off. you can babble all you want but you have nothing to back up your babbling.

[Donkeywing]

I think we're done here.

[Bepples]

I’m not bending stats at all and there’s only one argument needed. People don’t only play the spec they raid as I wouldn’t raid as survival but I’d still play it. YOU keep making claims about players numbers when you don’t have the numbers to back up the claims. You can babble all you want but at the end of the day you and I have no idea how many people play survival outside of the raiding scene, I’m willing to admit that people don’t like it for raiding but that we don’t have the numbers for the rest of the game your not willing to admit that you don’t know because you would rather try and use the raid stats as a absolute when they in fact are not.

It is unlikely the proportion of Survival Hunters out in the world is significantly higher than its raiding population. Saying Survival is extremely unpopular is not conjecture; even Blizzard has talked about it being an unpopular niche spec. Once again, you are basically banking on Survival having a massively higher proportion of casual non-raiding players than every other spec in the game (remember: all specs have a contingent of casual non-raiders, not just Survival) for no reason at all.

Ranged survival was literally "Apply dots" and use explosive shot on cooldown.

Hell, they even made it more braindead when they made explosive shot stack.

I have wanted a Melee Hunter spec since forever.

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Let's be honest. People only play Hunter because it's easy as fuck anyway with zero Nuance.

Melee Survival was literally "apply Lacerate" and use Flanking Strike on cooldown. See, I can generalise to a dishonest degree and overuse the word "literally" as well!

Also, your argument is not one positively arguing for a melee Hunter. If you think ranged Survival should have been more complex the solution was to add more mechanics to ranged Survival. Making it melee was not a real solution: it invented a whole new set of much more immediate problems.

I don't care what a niche contingent of players like you wanted. More people wanted Survival to be ranged and frankly we were here first.

And don't try to speak for other people when talking about what they want from the Hunter class; ESPECIALLY not to deliver the tired-old, insufferable Survival superiority complex. For example, I play a Hunter because I liked ranged weapons. If I only cared about what was "easy as fuck" I would play Havoc Demon Hunter.

Pretty sure having a melee spec makes the class much more versatile and it used to be a thing back in vanilla(my first toon was a melee hunter)... respec marksmen if you want to shoot stuff.

This "versatility" is a myth because a) most Hunters do not want to play melee and b) melee is rarely, if ever, preferred over ranged in any situation.

No, melee Hunter was not a thing in Vanilla just as ranged Warriors/Rogues were not a thing. It was absolutely never viable even if you talented for it: melee was always a weakness and never a strength. If you were playing melee Hunter back in Vanilla (and frankly I think you're full of shit) that was nothing more than an expression of your inexperience and naivete.

Marksman was not the same thing as Survival. This is akin to me saying "reroll Fury Warrior if you want to hit stuff". If you can understand the apathy and ignorance of that statement you can understand the same of yours.

The idea of a melee hunter was great.

It clearly wasn't if most Hunters rejected it right from the announcement.

This. I've been wanting a melee hunter for years, I wanted SV to be like FFXI's Beastmaster. Melee + Pet. Now we finally get it and all anyone does is bitch about it.

Because what everyone else wants is not the same as what you want. Most Hunters did NOT want a melee Hunter for years and liked the ranged Survival we had. That's where the angst comes from. The fact that you transitioned immediately from "I want this" to "Why do other people hate it when we got it?" speaks volumes about your sense of self importance.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It is unlikely the proportion of Survival Hunters out in the world is significantly higher than its raiding population. Saying Survival is extremely unpopular is not conjecture; even Blizzard has talked about it being an unpopular niche spec. Once again, you are basically banking on Survival having a massively higher proportion of casual non-raiding players than every other spec in the game (remember: all specs have a contingent of casual non-raiders, not just Survival) for no reason at all.

I don't think there are is a massively higher proportion of non raider players, i think we don't know the numbers and any claims about the numbers are nothing but hog wash as there is nothing to back it up.

[Big Mama]

It clearly wasn't if most Hunters rejected it right from the announcement.

Well I didn't, I play as a hunter too and I do think the initial idea to bring a melee hunter spec was really a good one, so please, don't try to change my opinion. You and everyone else have the right to think the opposite. I never said or thought I spoke for the majority.

[aikanaro]

Ranged survival was literally "Apply dots" and use explosive shot on cooldown.

Hell, they even made it more braindead when they made explosive shot stack.

I have wanted a Melee Hunter spec since forever.

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Let's be honest. People only play Hunter because it's easy as fuck anyway with zero Nuance.

I played hunter because I like pets and bows... but I don't want to be reliant on a pet and I don't want to cast spells (aimed shot).

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Pretty sure having a melee spec makes the class much more versatile and it used to be a thing back in vanilla(my first toon was a melee hunter)... respec marksmen if you want to shoot stuff.

Respec marksman if you want to "cast" stuff. There i fixed what you said.

[threads]

Pretty sure having a melee spec makes the class much more versatile and it used to be a thing back in vanilla(my first toon was a melee hunter)... respec marksmen if you want to shoot stuff.

how is it more versatile when ranged players have 2 specs now instead of 3 lmao

[Niwes]

Just do it. Millions would love to see it back.

i believe that.
i believe that MANY (maybe not millions, have they even millions of subs ? ^^) hunters want back old surv.
i belive that a lot hate that melee shit spec.
i believe some of them like surv or just dont care.
i believe many hunters also would like a rexxar style hunter, when made good.
i believe that no other class was that hard ruined and be torn appart than hunter.*
i also believe that blizzard give a damn fuck about their loyal customers or what they want.

conclusion: that surv shit wont go anywhere. because of blizzard give a fuck about us all.

*i play very much, and this since 13 years, and i played a LOT of classes. imo, and objectively when looking through all forums, the last 1-2 years, no other class was chopped up that hard. MM at least „tries“ to be somewhat of a ... spec. but also a fucked up, by pseudo shit mechanic, called vulnerable. BM is a slow, lame CS and KC spec and surv is utterly shit by high investment for zero gain. ... and NOW compare that, to hunter specs, i.e. MoP. not the class mechanics. thats taste. not the style. thats taste. but the fluidness. the overall package. well rounded. functional. from the same mould. „new“ hunter has nothing of that and is a patchwerk piece of loosly coupled shit.

[Roujeaux]

Ranged Survival has just as much chance as coming back as Metamorphosis Demonology. I don't think it's happening.

[aikanaro]

i believe that.
i believe that MANY (maybe not millions, have they even millions of subs ? ^^) hunters want back old surv.
i belive that a lot hate that melee shit spec.
i believe some of them like surv or just dont care.
i believe many hunters also would like a rexxar style hunter, when made good.
i believe that no other class was that hard ruined and be torn appart than hunter.*
i also believe that blizzard give a damn fuck about their loyal customers or what they want.

conclusion: that surv shit wont go anywhere. because of blizzard give a fuck about us all.

*i play very much, and this since 13 years, and i played a LOT of classes. imo, and objectively when looking through all forums, the last 1-2 years, no other class was chopped up that hard. MM at least „tries“ to be somewhat of a ... spec. but also a fucked up, by pseudo shit mechanic, called vulnerable. BM is a slow, lame CS and KC spec and surv is utterly shit by high investment for zero gain. ... and NOW compare that, to hunter specs, i.e. MoP. not the class mechanics. thats taste. not the style. thats taste. but the fluidness. the overall package. well rounded. functional. from the same mould. „new“ hunter has nothing of that and is a patchwerk piece of loosly coupled shit.

#ThisGuyKnowsWassup

[Deleted]

Well now they turned Survival into some weird fucked up, clunky hybrid thing.

Good job dudes.

[Trapstarz]

They can't buff Surv and make it stronger than MM and BM because the kind of whiner you are exist and will go full shitstorm (even more than now) if this was the case, with things in all caps like : "I don't wanna swap to melee to be competitv blablabla", "they gutter WoD SV and now melee is the best DPS option blabla"

You get what you deserve