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  1. #41
    OP does not understand Vanilla Hunter b/c he never played it. It is actually quite simple:

    1. Beast Mastery was the Levelling tree and the tree of choice for those that used their Hunter for grinding.

    2. Marksmanship was the Raiding tree.

    3. Survival was the PvP tree used by Hunters who exclusively PvP'd. 0/21/30 and 0/20/31 with wyvern sting were incredibly strong PvP specs.

    OP also does not understand the meaning of "Survivalist". A Vanilla "Survivalist" is actually a true hunter conforming to the Native American Hunter/Gatherer archetype. A "Beast Master" in WoW is more of a Beast Tamer who trains his pet to do stuff as opposed to forming a bond with it like original Hunters did.

    P.S.: Not interested/not applicable to Retail as I don't play Retail and don't want to.
    Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    There were 3 archer specs in the game, and 11 specs that hit things with melee weapons.

    Now there are only 2 archer specs in the game and 13 melee.

    Variety is important.

    We chose the hunter class because we wanted to play a ranged DPS role. Making one of the ranged specs melee does nothing except leave us with less choices as spec.

    As far as I am concerned the hunter class only has 2 specs now. I will never play Melee DPS.
    who is "we"? and why you make difference between range specs but not melee specs? I actually know a lot of people who play SV as alt, but surely you don't see much of them in raids...or m+. Because they aren't really good for higher keys and because if you have the choice between range or melee people tend to range because of the already melee heavy competition in raids. ALSO SV somehow has a bad reputation, I got declined so often with my SV hunter I can't even count.

    Also you think variety is important. I see more variety in the choice of playing 2 range and 1 melee spec, than playing 3 range specs tbh.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Einst3in View Post
    who is "we"? and why you make difference between range specs but not melee specs? I actually know a lot of people who play SV as alt, but surely you don't see much of them in raids...or m+. Because they aren't really good for higher keys and because if you have the choice between range or melee people tend to range because of the already melee heavy competition in raids. ALSO SV somehow has a bad reputation, I got declined so often with my SV hunter I can't even count.

    Also you think variety is important. I see more variety in the choice of playing 2 range and 1 melee spec, than playing 3 range specs tbh.
    If talents were done right, MM could have 2 viable play styles. But thats more resources than blizzard wishes to dedicate to a class.

  4. #44
    SV on Alpha is getting more fun to play so that's really all that matters.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Einst3in View Post
    who is "we"? and why you make difference between range specs but not melee specs? I actually know a lot of people who play SV as alt, but surely you don't see much of them in raids...or m+. Because they aren't really good for higher keys and because if you have the choice between range or melee people tend to range because of the already melee heavy competition in raids. ALSO SV somehow has a bad reputation, I got declined so often with my SV hunter I can't even count.

    Also you think variety is important. I see more variety in the choice of playing 2 range and 1 melee spec, than playing 3 range specs tbh.
    There are 12 other Melee specs in the game already. We didn't need one in the hunter class for the sake of variety.

    Archery and the archer fantasy is a huge factor in the genre. Having only 2 specs that can be archers (and only 1 that actually comes with a bow and shoots things rather than yelling at their pet) but 13 melee DPS specs is not variety. It's world of meleecraft.

    As for "Who is we"? "We" refers to the 98% of hunter players who have no interest whatsoever in playing survival. And the ones who simply quit playing hunter when 1 of the specs was removed. Hunter went from the most popular class in the game since release, to the 4th most popular this expansion. Because they removed a spec and replaced with a useless, nothing, piece of shit that nobody wanted and nobody plays.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2018-02-14 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #46
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    There are 12 other Melee specs in the game already. We didn't need one in the hunter class for the sake of variety.

    Archery and the archer fantasy is a huge factor in the genre. Having only 2 specs that can be archers (and only 1 that actually comes with a bow and shoots things rather than yelling at their pet) but 13 melee DPS specs is not variety. It's world of meleecraft.

    As for "Who is we"? "We" refers to the 98% of hunter players who have no interest whatsoever in playing survival. And the ones who simply quit playing hunter when 1 of the specs was removed. Hunter went from the most popular class in the game since release, to the 4th most popular this expansion. Because they removed a spec and replaced with a useless, nothing, piece of shit that nobody wanted and nobody plays.
    That’s not how variety works, just because other specs have meele doesn’t make them all the same just as all the range specs are not the same.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    OP's post is a perfect example of how bad the "class fantasy" design paradigm is for the game. Now we are advocating massive pruning and contraction of available playstyles just to chase some impossible-to-measure quality of "spec distinction". We are tearing apart the whole game just to be able to say "now the specs are more different" as if that's the ONLY thing that matters. You sicken me, @FAILoZOFF



    Here's me playing MM:



    ...and here's me playing Survival:



    I can tell you with absolute certainty from experience that Survival was nothing like MM. I do think it was similar to MM at points in the past but as of WoD they were not.
    Survival is more Instant cast shots.

    That is literally it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Survival is more Instant cast shots.

    That is literally it.
    That is not "literally it"; that's "figuratively it if you selectively generalise".

    It's also having Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot, Black Arrow, and Lock and Load. Marksman had Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Kill Shot, and Careful Aim. Literally the only ability they shared was Multi-Shot and the fact they had a casted focus generator. You are so god-damned pathetic that you need to generalise to the maximum degree to try to prove a point and in doing so you gloss over every key mechanical difference between MM and SV. The different toolkits amounted to a different playstyle: MM was much more of a traditional caster ranged spec while SV was about high movement and fast-paced. This is exactly the same as the difference between Arcane and Fire yet you don't bitch that Fire should be melee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einst3in View Post
    ALSO SV somehow has a bad reputation, I got declined so often with my SV hunter I can't even count.
    I can't speak for other players, but personally I decline SV players to group/initiate votekicks on pure principle. SV represents all the worst aspects of Legion class design rolled into one spec (namely the blind focus on nebulous concepts of "class fantasy" and "variety" over absolutely everything else) as well as being a direct attack on Hunters and Hunter class design. I'll have nothing to do with the spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    That’s not how variety works, just because other specs have meele doesn’t make them all the same just as all the range specs are not the same.
    You people apparently think the three Hunter specs all having ranged weapons makes them the same.

  9. #49
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    You people apparently think the three Hunter specs all having ranged weapons makes them the same.
    i have never once said that so you can go bark up some ones else's tree.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    That is not "literally it"; that's "figuratively it if you selectively generalise".

    It's also having Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot, Black Arrow, and Lock and Load. Marksman had Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Kill Shot, and Careful Aim. Literally the only ability they shared was Multi-Shot and the fact they had a casted focus generator. You are so god-damned pathetic that you need to generalise to the maximum degree to try to prove a point and in doing so you gloss over every key mechanical difference between MM and SV. The different toolkits amounted to a different playstyle: MM was much more of a traditional caster ranged spec while SV was about high movement and fast-paced. This is exactly the same as the difference between Arcane and Fire yet you don't bitch that Fire should be melee.



    I can't speak for other players, but personally I decline SV players to group/initiate votekicks on pure principle. SV represents all the worst aspects of Legion class design rolled into one spec (namely the blind focus on nebulous concepts of "class fantasy" and "variety" over absolutely everything else) as well as being a direct attack on Hunters and Hunter class design. I'll have nothing to do with the spec.



    You people apparently think the three Hunter specs all having ranged weapons makes them the same.
    You intentionally screw players for choosing a spec you don't like. That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard in-game, and I suspect such pathetic behavior extends into your life beyond the game. Congratulations on being a cancer to the game, good sir.

  11. #51
    Deleted
    Pretty same to me difference between those two was just cobra shot and explosive plus one dot survival is Good spec now

  12. #52
    So we who play survival shouldnt enjoy it just cause you other butthurt ranged people dont want it to be melee?
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    In other countries like Canada the population has chosen to believe in hope, peace and tolerance. This we can see from the election of the Honourable Justin Trudeau who stood against the politics of hate and divisiveness.

  13. #53
    I think making survival a melee only spec was a mistake. It should be the hunter that does anything to get a win or stay living. Explosive shot and black arrow should come back as a temporary ammo system sort of like a finishing move.
    Last edited by Varvara Spiros Gelashvili; 2018-02-18 at 02:17 AM.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuen View Post
    Still don't know why they don't just do this:

    Beast Mastery - Based on Rexxar, you have a pet and fight in melee.


    Survival - Based on Alleria, the archer with traps, poisons and stealth.


    Marksmanship - Based on Dwarf mountaineers, wields guns and explosives.
    yep. always thougt the same.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibito View Post
    So we who play survival shouldnt enjoy it just cause you other butthurt ranged people dont want it to be melee?
    its been melee for like a year dude. people should be butthurt they were forced off a spec that existed for almost a decade as ranged.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    its been melee for like a year dude. people should be butthurt they were forced off a spec that existed for almost a decade as ranged.
    12 years. More than a decade.

  17. #57
    I like survival as melee. Having a wide variety of playstyles makes a class more appealing. Didn't really play Hunter at all before Legion. Logged on my surv hunter right now and playing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also as a guy who mains a shaman, I have no idea why having three ranged specs is an absolute necessity.

    Shaman has one ranged spec and does just fine. Wtf can't you be satisfied with two?

    Why are you upset that your class is now more versatile and has wider appeal?

  18. #58
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuen View Post
    Still don't know why they don't just do this:

    Beast Mastery - Based on Rexxar, you have a pet and fight in melee.
    I agree. I don't know why this wasn't the default. Survival is cool and all but there is very little focus on the pet. Battle For Azeroth adds more focus on the pet but also adds a lot of ranged abilities that honestly feel out of place. Raptor Strike throwing ghostly owls? Get out of here.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    yet there's another part of the class fantasy that's not covered by MM/BM, that of Rexxar:the muscular rugged huntsman that apart from his skills has a feral side and prefers to fight alongside his beasts rather than watch them shred the target while he snipes them from a safe distance

    a hunter does not have to be an archer (or gunner if dwarf), this is not all the class is about, hunters have a primal side, a true connection to the wild and nature, they understand nature's struggles and survival of the fittest better than anyone
    When I first created my Hunter, this was EXACTLY my 'RP' process. I wanted to be side by side with my companion ripping to shreds any and ALL enemies that dared cross our paths or stand in our way.

    My Scorpion would Dash in for the Daze while I shot arrows as I close the distance, draw out my swords and hack those pesky damned humans to tiny bits o food for my lovely family of bugs to feed on. They did prefer the occasional Dwarf from time to time but they LOVED those humans..... Musta been the sweat that added flavor to the meat.

    On topic though, I tried hunter over in Pandaria WoD and Legion as Surv, I just dont get its role in the game anymore. Marksman you were a Distance killer, BM your and your pet were One but Surv........ what exactly are we Surviving from? Even as the other 2 specs I rarely used Traps except on Moroes as Frost Kiting the add but other than that ........ it was fun lighting up a mob or two but even the traps just didnt fit the class. For me at least.

    After playing my hunter for about 2 weeks in all specs..... I just dont like him anymore. Perhaps I will start a brand new hunter and pretend it is my first and forget that my other ever existed and perhaps that will help me fall in love with that class again

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    That is not "literally it"; that's "figuratively it if you selectively generalise".

    It's also having Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot, Black Arrow, and Lock and Load. Marksman had Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Kill Shot, and Careful Aim. Literally the only ability they shared was Multi-Shot and the fact they had a casted focus generator. You are so god-damned pathetic that you need to generalise to the maximum degree to try to prove a point and in doing so you gloss over every key mechanical difference between MM and SV. The different toolkits amounted to a different playstyle: MM was much more of a traditional caster ranged spec while SV was about high movement and fast-paced. This is exactly the same as the difference between Arcane and Fire yet you don't bitch that Fire should be melee.
    It's funny because you take the WoD example where Marks got pruned out of his Sting mecanics with Chimera Shot, just add Serpent Sting into MM core spells and you just have a 24sec CD + single target shadow dot more between Marks and Surv.

    Cata had both Steady and Cobra shot avaible but because Marks got talents for Steady shot she was the only spec to use it instead of Cobrashot + Chimera reseting the SS so :
    Cobrashot extending SS for Chimera reapplying SS (both spec put SS almost right as the fight start and forget about this bind)
    Cobra for Steady Shot
    Explo for Chimera (6s cd vs 9s cd with the mandatory glyph)
    Rapid fire as only CD for all 3 spec (was kinda useless for all spec but MM)
    Arcane Shot both spec (pruned in WoD for Marks)
    Insta aimed for LnL
    just add this mongo 24cd spell into surv rotation, on CD use without thinking OMEGALUL.


    BOOM !

    I got gladiator as SV and MM(mostly) since s11 to s16 (disgusting Surv WoD), I know my class and trust me I just kept the same bind and pressed the change spec button almost nothing changed for me.

    I played them both the same way, explo on CD because MoP made LnL stupid and mongo af, keep SS, Aimed proc vs LnL proc when it's shiny + don't forget to click on a 24s cd when it's up. I don't know if this is different spec for you but for me it wasn't.
    Last edited by Trapstarz; 2018-02-18 at 12:41 PM.

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