A New Idea About How to Stop School Shootings (nationwide teacher walkout)

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Great. So new teachers in poorer schools who are living paycheck to paycheck can then get blamed by the right for not having a gun when the next shooting happens.

The right blames us for everything anyway. This won't be any different.

No fucking way I'm arming myself either.

[Masark]

They need to be concealed.

You're going to conceal the fact that they're the teacher?

[szechuan]

The right blames us for everything anyway. This won't be any different.

No fucking way I'm arming myself either.

Highschoolers are starting to Stand Up against this too

[ipaq]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ng-stupor.html



This may be the only way to get something done.

Stop voting republican.

[Ghostpanther]

You're going to conceal the fact that they're the teacher?

The handgun. lol! I would rather have one if I was a teacher than not have one when some nut comes in and starts shooting. A big part of learning to carry concealed, is learning to be aware of your surroundings. This is basic self defense 101. It is not the only solution of course. Just one important part.

[Celista]

I read on social media today that high school students are organizing their own walkout. Which IMO should mean a lot more to us.

Poor kids. We are really failing them on a number of levels.

[Wyrt]

The handgun. lol! I would rather have one if I was a teacher than not have one when some nut comes in and starts shooting. A big part of learning to carry concealed, is learning to be aware of your surroundings. This is basic self defense 101. It is not the only solution of course. Just one important part.

Or, you know, we could address the problem of nuts coming in to shoot up schools in the first place, instead of slapping a bandaid on it by making teachers carry guns.

I read on social media today that high school students are organizing their own walkout. Which IMO should mean a lot more to us.

Poor kids. We are really failing them on a number of levels.

When high school kids take something more seriously than the government there's a pretty big problem.

[Sunseeker]

How about people recognize that guns are not the problem? If the news reported every time someone with a gun saved someone that would be all the news would be reporting.

If this is true you should be able to compile a brief list, lets say, within the last month, of numerous instances of guns saving someone.
I'll even accept links to right-wing rags as long as the instance itsself can be verified.

But I'm sure you're not going to do this.
And I'm sure you're going to claim you can't because THE MEDIA!
But...if that were true, why aren't the sites on your side reporting it?
I'm sure the answer will be something something mass conspiracy.
Probably that police agencies are being told by the shadow government not to report on this.

Did I miss anything?

[Mormolyce]

I read on social media today that high school students are organizing their own walkout. Which IMO should mean a lot more to us.

Poor kids. We are really failing them on a number of levels.

Dear children, we can't protect you from being murdered by your classmates, because of the NRA's money. You'll understand when you're older.

Just do your best to avoid incoming fire,

Sincerely,
Adults.

[Flarelaine]

How about people recognize that guns are not the problem? If the news reported every time someone with a gun saved someone that would be all the news would be reporting.

You forgot to link the source to prove the prevalence of such incidents.

[Felya]

The handgun. lol! I would rather have one if I was a teacher than not have one when some nut comes in and starts shooting. A big part of learning to carry concealed, is learning to be aware of your surroundings. This is basic self defense 101. It is not the only solution of course. Just one important part.

What happens when a teacher chooses to do this? You think more or less people would be dead, if instead of dropping his guns and running for it... he had a fire fight with teachers? What is the acceptable number of dead children? One?

[Kronik85]

What happens when a teacher chooses to do this? You think more or less people would be dead, if instead of dropping his guns and running for it... he had a fire fight with teachers? What is the acceptable number of dead children? One?

All of them I'd imagine. If the answer is to arm more people then you've already accepted that at least one person is going to die (because the shooter has initiative), what is obviously more important than protecting your children is that you push the "Good Guy with a Gun" narrative and have someone heroically stop the incident earlier than now.

[Dontrike]

Yes, remove guns from idiots, but also please for the love of everything, find out what the fuck has messed up your society so that it breeds school shooters.

That would be great if the U.S. hasn't been scaling back on the mental health services while also making the CDC unable to research gun violence. The last time one of these incidents happened that outraged the nation they tried to let the CDC do its work with guns and it was shut down, it's always shut down. The NRA has its hands in so many wallets that it will never be allowed.

[Tijuana]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ng-stupor.html



This may be the only way to get something done.

What a fantastic idea. I hope they do walk out. Then they can be fired, despite their tenure, and you can replace them with competent workers.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be great if the U.S. hasn't been scaling back on the mental health services while also making the CDC unable to research gun violence. The last time one of these incidents happened that outraged the nation they tried to let the CDC do its work with guns and it was shut down, it's always shut down. The NRA has its hands in so many wallets that it will never be allowed.

Why is the left obsessed with CDC gun studies, exactly? I really don't get it. What is it you want to study? Murder? What is there to study? Crazy people do crazy things. End of study. Please explain your position on this, because I really don't see how not doing a study, is the root cause of murder.

If you can do it without name calling and flaming, that would be nice also. =D

As for the mental health services, the root of that problem is literally just a few words. We passed a law under Reagan, that abolished the practice of forced mental health care. Under the new law, surely you have heard these words: They cannot be forced to stay for care, unless they are deemed to be an immediate threat to themselves or others. If that word, immediate, were changed to say, probable, or likely you could lock up some of these nut jobs. But as it stands now, we need an actual, real, specific threat, in order to act.

But the issue is not "funding" as Democrats like to blame everything on. You could fund a million mental heath hospitals, but they would all still be empty, due to federal law.

[mvaliz]

Yes, remove guns from idiots, but also please for the love of everything, find out what the fuck has messed up your society so that it breeds school shooters.

It's this is the mentality displayed above here that I really don't get nor understand...

Why the fuck do the gun-nuts think those wanting common-sense gun laws believe that we think it's going to solve all violent crime?

Why the Hell is it to the gun-nuts that it has to be an either-or thing!? I really don't get it....

This is to stop MASS SHOOTINGS, not solve all violent crime!

Do they think gun-control advocates are going to be like "OK, that's done - we've achieved utopia....yay" if tough legislation on guns get passed? Fuck no and they damn well know that! That's just one step in a whole bunch of steps that NEED to be done that work!

[Spectral]

That would be great if the U.S. hasn't been scaling back on the mental health services while also making the CDC unable to research gun violence. The last time one of these incidents happened that outraged the nation they tried to let the CDC do its work with guns and it was shut down, it's always shut down. The NRA has its hands in so many wallets that it will never be allowed.

Do you have a citation for the claim that the United States has been scaling back mental health services? The first data a quick Google shows me is this, which looks like sustained, massive growth from 1986-2009, but doesn't have more recent years. This article seems to indicate that the projections in that Statista link have more or less come true, with spending now over $200 billion/year.

[Dontrike]

Why is the left obsessed with CDC gun studies, exactly? I really don't get it. What is it you want to study? Murder? What is there to study? Crazy people do crazy things. End of study. Please explain your position on this, because I really don't see how not doing a study, is the root cause of murder.

What do you mean, what's there to study? The CDC can research how best to prevent gun violence, for one. With the Dickey ammendment the funding for it gun control research fell 96%. That would be pretty nice to find out why people do what they do with guns.

There's no reason not research it, dozens of reasons to do so, and add another reason each time we have massacres like this and more people die.

Did you also know that the ATF can't have an electronic database for gun owners?

Really I'm just repeating this video, but I knew you wouldn't watch it.

As for the mental health services, the root of that problem is literally just a few words. We passed a law under Reagan, that abolished the practice of forced mental health care. Under the new law, surely you have heard these words: They cannot be forced to stay for care, unless they are deemed to be an immediate threat to themselves or others. If that word, immediate, were changed to say, probable, or likely you could lock up some of these nut jobs. But as it stands now, we need an actual, real, specific threat, in order to act.

But the issue is not "funding" as Democrats like to blame everything on. You could fund a million mental heath hospitals, but they would all still be empty, due to federal law.

The difference here is that this person was pretty unhinged already and this guy somehow fell through the cracks.

Also, I don't know how many mental health facilities you've been in, but they are in fact not all empty, even with them letting folks go for a myriad of reasons. I've been in two, as a patient, for wanting to kill myself (I know, waste of time, right? and I know I should have offed myself, believe me, I get it) and on one visit there was literally one person in there by accident and they had to try for two days to be let out. Those places are not as easy to get out of as you think.

Do you have a citation for the claim that the United States has been scaling back mental health services? The first data a quick Google shows me is this, which looks like sustained, massive growth from 1986-2009, but doesn't have more recent years. This article seems to indicate that the projections in that Statista link have more or less come true, with spending now over $200 billion/year.

Seems like a lot of my sources were from 2009 when spending was lower, and that's me being a paint fucker for not looking at the dates, although with the new budget some things are down and others are up.

[Tijuana]

What do you mean, what's there to study? The CDC can research how best to prevent gun violence, for one. With the Dickey ammendment the funding for it gun control research fell 96%. That would be pretty nice to find out why people do what they do with guns.

There's no reason not research it, dozens of reasons to do so, and add another reason each time we have massacres like this and more people die.

Did you also know that the ATF can't have an electronic database for gun owners?

Really I'm just repeating this video, but I knew you wouldn't watch it.





The difference here is that this person was pretty unhinged already and this guy somehow fell through the cracks.

Also, I don't know how many mental health facilities you've been in, but they are in fact not all empty, even with them letting folks go for a myriad of reasons. I've been in two, as a patient, for wanting to kill myself (I know, waste of time, right? and I know I should have offed myself, believe me, I get it) and on one visit there was literally one person in there by accident and they had to try for two days to be let out. Those places are not as easy to get out of as you think.



Seems like a lot of my sources were from 2009 when spending was lower, and that's me being a paint fucker for not looking at the dates, although with the new budget some things are down and others are up.

What is there to research, specifically. Walk me through how this would go, in your mind. Do you think they will discover a pill that makes people not commit murder? Do you think they will invent a gun that only kills bad guys? What is it, specifically, that you hope can be accomplished by gun studies, that we don't already know? I'm completely serious. Tell me what you think they will find, that can't be found by private research?

To the greater point, I support a NUMBER of proposals to assist with locating potential crazy people. Based on the FL story, it seems like we have SOME structure in place to address this, but it's riddled with holes and incompetence.

The obvious solution is to just put cops at schools, and arm the teachers that are willing. But, let's get real. That doesn't address what this is REALLY all about, now does it?

My point about empty loony bins seems to have flown right over your head. The point was, when you could FORCE people to live in them, there was obviously a much greater need. If you had the same number of beds you had in the 1950's, yes, most would be empty. That's just a fact. Most people refuse care, particularly in patient care.

But, thanks for actually discussing the actual topic, instead of just calling me a lair or whatever. You may find people actually agree with you, when you take the time to keep things civil.

[Acidz]

The handgun. lol! I would rather have one if I was a teacher than not have one when some nut comes in and starts shooting. A big part of learning to carry concealed, is learning to be aware of your surroundings. This is basic self defense 101. It is not the only solution of course. Just one important part.

Handguns? These kids are carrying AR-15s and your solution is to give teachers a handgun?? I'd say set up a heavy machine gun in every class room.

[Spectral]

What do you mean, what's there to study? The CDC can research how best to prevent gun violence, for one. With the Dickey ammendment the funding for it gun control research fell 96%. That would be pretty nice to find out why people do what they do with guns.

There's no reason not research it, dozens of reasons to do so, and add another reason each time we have massacres like this and more people die.

Something I personally found interesting when looking into the Dickey Amendment a bit more:

In a 2012 op-ed, Dickey and Rosenberg argued that the CDC should be able to research gun violence,[6] and Dickey has since said that he regrets his role in stopping the CDC from researching gun violence,[7] saying he simply didn't want to "let any of those dollars go to gun control advocacy."[8]

So, the pro-gun representative from Arkansas now says he regrets how this shook out. I'm sure he'll stand by the motives, but he clearly thinks it was inartfully done and counterproductive. This should highlight just how extreme of a position it is to not allow CDC research into gun violence, accidents, and suicides.

- - - Updated - - -

What is there to research, specifically. Walk me through how this would go, in your mind. Do you think they will discover a pill that makes people not commit murder? Do you think they will invent a gun that only kills bad guys? What is it, specifically, that you hope can be accomplished by gun studies, that we don't already know? I'm completely serious. Tell me what you think they will find, that can't be found by private research?

I think it'd be worth looking at risk factors for accidents and suicide. With the advent of electronic health records (as one example), there's more data available at present than what there used to be. It would be worth assessing what criteria are consistent with significantly elevated risk and what behavioral health strategies mitigate those risks. This really shouldn't even be all that political - this sorts of look at accidents and suicide is amenable to the same sorts of epidemiological science as other sorts of accidents and suicide.

This is easier for the CDC to carry out than a private institution due to network effects - it's literally what the CDC does. They have researchers that are in a much better position to handle this and much more likely to be given the data by health networks than I'd expect any private organization to be.