Saurfang and Anduin [Spoilers-Speculation?]

[Niwes]

I think Saurfang is the kind of Orc who tries to avoid war and talk with the enemy, but if everything goes south he is the guy you can count among the frontlines.

this. saurfang would never do anything that harms the horde. even when this mean to fuck up his warchief. he is loyal to the horde. not loyal to sylvanas. when he have to talk with anduin, to save horde ppls life, he will do this. regardless what an undead warchief say.

[Alixie]

How is it minor? Genn basically pulled a pearl harbor on the Forsaken fleet.

The attacks on Goblin miners is what I would call a minor skirmish, but Stormheim was a straight up unprovoked act of war.

Sylvannas threw the first punch when she invaded an isolated city, assassinated one of its leaders, and bombed them into homelessness. Everyone seems to forget this important detail.

[Zulkhan]

Sylvannas threw the first punch when she invaded an isolated city, assassinated one of its leaders, and bombed them into homelessness. Everyone seems to forget this important detail.

The important detail is that the punch Sylvanas threw was consequence of a war campaign Garrosh instigated, the Warchief who endured a charge for war crimes by a trial that officialized a truce between Alliance and Horde.

Genn's moral justifications do not change the political weight of his actions, which indeed represented an unprovoked act of war effectively breaking the truce in question.

[Deleted]

The important detail is that the punch Sylvanas threw was consequence of a war campaign Garrosh instigated, the Warchief who endured a charge for war crimes by a trial that officialized a truce between Alliance and Horde.

Genn's moral justifications do not change the political weight of his actions, which indeed represented an unprovoked act of war effectively breaking the truce in question.

i remember when you voted genn 8/10 long ago in a thread does your opinion for him changed now? he has dome mistakes but i like him for what he is. i think he is a tragic character he sees anduin as the son he lost and i feel bad for him quite a few times. but i admit blizzard is not writing him good lately :/ in cataclym he was wiser i think?

[Dellis0991]

I think what he means by "buying time" and "meeting with Anduin" is that he want to fight Anduin possibly, maybe this is the fight he wants and the death he wants, a honorable fight with a honorable man. If Varian was alive it would be this way but he ain't so Anduin is there and he is a budding king and has ideas of honor and trying to live up to it. We may be seeing Varok on his last "Lok'tar Ogar". I could be terribly wrong.

[Zulkhan]

i remember when you voted genn 8/10 long ago in a thread does your opinion for him changed now? he has dome mistakes but i like him for what he is. i think he is a tragic character he sees anduin as the son he lost and i feel bad for him quite a few times. but i admit blizzard is not writing him good lately :/ in cataclym he was wiser i think?

What the hell made you think I changed my opinion on Genn? There's nothing wrong with him in my book.

[Doffen]

Sylvannas threw the first punch when she invaded an isolated city, assassinated one of its leaders, and bombed them into homelessness. Everyone seems to forget this important detail.

No doubt this is a good point when it comes to Genns motivation, and he is right from his point of view to go after Sylvanas. But at the start of the Stormheim-events, the Alliance attacks the Forsaken fleet first, and starts a proper battle. If this is the reasons for anything happening in BfA, we actually don´t know for certain(before the book comes) but the attack is a strong contender for being the reason.

[Deleted]

What the hell made you think I changed my opinion on Genn? There's nothing wrong with him in my book.

but he broke the truce because of his depression after losing his child

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I think Saurfang is sick of Sylvanas and rats on her and tells the Alliance what the Horde is up to while in SW.

[Deleted]

I think Saurfang is sick of Sylvanas and rats on her and tells the Alliance what the Horde is up to while in SW.

he seems to be sick of sylvanas but i don't think he will betray the horde saurfang would never do that

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

he seems to be sick of sylvanas but i don't think he will betray the horde saurfang would never do that

he would do that. he has nothing left in the horde and has to repay anduin.

[Combatbutler]

but he broke the truce because of his depression after losing his child

Greymane is very flawed , that makes him a good character, because he has done so many shitty things.

[Deleted]

Greymane is very flawed , that makes him a good character, because he has done so many shitty things.

he is very falwed yes but it's not the only reason he is a good character. i mean is this the only reason you like him? xD
in the end he wants the best for his people and to protect anduin.

[Zulkhan]

but he broke the truce because of his depression after losing his child

I only corrected the notion that Genn's action wasn't an unprovoked act of war when it actually was. It doesn't mean I hold that against him. That's precisely why I mentioned "moral justifications", since morally speaking Genn was 100% justified.

[Combatbutler]

he is very falwed yes but it's not the only reason he is a good character. i mean is this the only reason you like him? xD
in the end he wants the best for his people and to protect anduin.

Yep I like him because he is an hypocritical ass ;P

[Theoris]

he would do that. he has nothing left in the horde and has to repay anduin.

Wait, for what? Taking him prisoner when he specifically asked to die honorably and that it was not for a human king to decide his fate? Or are you referring to Varian allowing Saurfang to reclaim the body of his son, which Varok looks to somehow repay by talking to Anduin?

Whatever the case, Varok isn't gonna turn his back on the Horde. Hopefully not, anyway - been too many turncoats lately.

[Jastall]

Why do you talk about it, but don't link the transformation ;P

https://youtu.be/PWlH8PTijzA?t=7

This is the greatest thing I'll ever see.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Wait, for what? Taking him prisoner when he specifically asked to die honorably and that it was not for a human king to decide his fate? Or are you referring to Varian allowing Saurfang to reclaim the body of his son, which Varok looks to somehow repay by talking to Anduin?

Whatever the case, Varok isn't gonna turn his back on the Horde. Hopefully not, anyway - been too many turncoats lately.

i was talking about this one
and
if voljin can betray the horde so can varok

[Syegfryed]

i was talking about this one
and
if voljin can betray the horde so can varok

except he didn't, so Saurfang can't

besides there is a whole ground between vol'jin and saurfang.

[Zulkhan]

i was talking about this one

Saurfang doesn't owe anything to Anduin. Anduin being Varian's son does not make him Varian himself.

if voljin can betray the horde so can varok

Vol'jin only cared to search consensus among the Horde, he never cared to involve the Alliance until the Alliance itself didn't reach him later and sure as hell never thought about fucking join it.