Missing the 10 man Raids

[Jastall]

Yeah 10 man in cata was great, if you haven't got class x for a certain fight it was gg.

To be fair, that also happened in Legion, especially in ToS, and is more of a raid/class design problem than a 10m vs 20m problem.

[judgementofantonidas]

I understand that if you actually enjoy raiding. I only raided mythic, because I felt I had to for the TIER sets, which I needed to perform well in the contect I actually enjoyed, which is M+.

That's flawed game design, imo. Next xpac I can do whatever I like doing, without being punished for skipping what I don't like.

Interesting how you have the gearing mechanism ass backwards.

[Deleted]

I, for one don't miss it in the slightest.

And scaling? Please keep that out of mythic raids.
"We are having trouble with a boss? Oh, let's just bench half the raid because the encounter is easier with 10 people!" - we all know it would happen.

[nocturnus]

Interesting how you have the gearing mechanism ass backwards.

I do?

Care to elaborate?

Oh, let's just bench half the raid because the encounter is easier with 10 people!" - we all know it would happen.

There have been plenty of fights that were harder with 10 men, but your point in general is valid: people will take the path of least resistance and that's because those people do not actually enjoy raiding but consider it a chore; something they have to do for X reason.

It's like the example I gave before: I don't like raiding; I find it boring and have nothing in common with most people in the group. So my friends and I raid mythic until we have our 4 set bonus and stop right after we fill our last slot so we can pursue whatever it is we enjoy. This xpac it was M+.

[Ophenia]

those people do not actually enjoy raiding but consider it a chore; something they have to do for X reason.

No, but there is no point in wiping 500 times on a boss when you can faceroll it by switching from 25 to 10 (obviously switching from 10 to 25 was a lot more complicated as there were no 10man-guilds able to find 15 additional guys ).

[nocturnus]

No, but there is no point in wiping 500 times on a boss when you can faceroll it by switching from 25 to 10 (obviously switching from 10 to 25 was a lot more complicated as there were no 10man-guilds able to find 15 additional guys ).

I don't think there are many instances where the discrepancy in difficulty between 10 and 25 mythic is significant enough to warrant the use of the word "faceroll". if you did experience it that way, chances are your guild was carrying 15 baddies.

Eliminating the weak links will in fact make the encounter easier to beat, but it will not necessarily result in an easier encounter.

[Gaidax]

I don't think there are many instances where the discrepancy in difficulty between 10 and 25 mythic is significant enough to warrant the use of the word "faceroll". if you did experience it that way, chances are your guild was carrying 15 baddies.

Eliminating the weak links will in fact make the encounter easier to beat, but it will not necessarily result in an easier encounter.

I think you are wrong, even something as silly as having to deal with 1 less circle to soak in encounter like Avatar is huge, because believe it or not - far from every guild is blessed with a stock of geared rogues to cheese things like that.

It's not the point of "ur guild is baed", it is genuinely a case where there are more than enough lean Mythic guilds that can't just shit out whatever X class/spec that cheeses the encounter at the moment notice.

Heck, we're on Argus now and it certainly would be nice to have 1 less Rage to care about, for example and by nice I mean it would be shitton easier... same with chains. Alternatively if number of Rages and Chains would not change with lower amount of people then more people would be easier and yes something like an ultimate boss of the instance is faced with best odds you can produce, it's not the point of being "bad" or nonsense like that, it's simple optimization.

[nocturnus]

I think you are wrong, even something as silly as having to deal with 1 less circle to soak in encounter like Avatar is huge, because believe it or not - far from every guild is blessed with a stock of geared rogues to cheese things like that.

It's not the point of "ur guild is baed", it is genuinely a case where there are more than enough lean Mythic guilds that can't just shit out whatever X class/spec that cheeses the encounter at the moment notice.

Heck, we're on Argus now and it certainly would be nice to have 1 less Rage to care about, for example and by nice I mean it would be shitton easier... same with chains.

In all fairness, you're using an irrelevant example since Argus is (badly) designed around 20 players only. My point was that the discrepancy between 10 and 25 has never been big enough to warrant calling either one "faceroll". Fact of the matter is that some fights were harder in 25 man mode and others in 10 man mode.

I sincerely believe the quantity of participants does not say anything about the encouter's difficulty. I've seen 8 man FFXIV raids that were harder than quite a few 25 man mythic raids, for example.

Anyway, further discussing this really is like flogging a dead horse. The point is that we will not be forced to raid for tier sets anymore and that's a very, very good thing.

[MrKnowItAll]

This is simple, I used to raid 10 man for about as long as it was available, but I do buy all the reasons to make mythic 20 only, if that is what makes encounters more complex and smarter and makes content flow - I am all for it, after all bunch of excuses aside - anyone who wants to raid Mythic is able to do so, unless he is not really up to a challenge.

Well im not up to the challenge of raiding with randoms so its no mythic raiding for me.I get that its appealing for blizzard to have it easier for them in just having one raidsize to do properly (since heroic is loosely tuned bs) but its a shame that they made it a lot more exclusive at the same time.Having 10man mythic was a dream come true for my guild since we could finally raid with the core group of 10 years and have fun.But now its all gone and we along with pretty much all the not-english-speaking guilds are fucked when it comes to mythic raiding.Some people in here brought up the difficulty issue between the old 10man and 25man versions but we didnt care even if every encounter would have been harder in 10 man.We were just happy to be able to raid with tight-knit group and have a blast.

[judgementofantonidas]

I do?

Care to elaborate?

Isn't really necessary. You are just being willfully obtuse apparently. Mythic plus is a leg up for raiding. Not the other way round.

[nocturnus]

Isn't really necessary. You are just being willfully obtuse apparently. Mythic plus is a leg up for raiding. Not the other way round.

Foolish insinuations are far more entertaining when they are explained and therefore can't be taken back.

Not necessary to elaborate, yet you do. I'd rather be obtuse than, well, like you. We raided mythic for the tier set which we need to perform well in M+, ergo M+ isn't necessarily in service of raiding.

Well im not up to the challenge of raiding with randoms so its no mythic raiding for me.I get that its appealing for blizzard to have it easier for them in just having one raidsize to do properly (since heroic is loosely tuned bs) but its a shame that they made it a lot more exclusive at the same time.Having 10man mythic was a dream come true for my guild since we could finally raid with the core group of 10 years and have fun.But now its all gone and we along with pretty much all the not-english-speaking guilds are fucked when it comes to mythic raiding.Some people in here brought up the difficulty issue between the old 10man and 25man versions but we didnt care even if every encounter would have been harder in 10 man.We were just happy to be able to raid with tight-knit group and have a blast.

We felt exactly the same. I play this game with my brothers and 4 friends. Before Legion we only needed to recruit 3 decent dpssers to raid mythic, now we would have to recruit 13. Next xpac will be amazing for us because we won't have to rely on anyone but our own group to do what we enjoy doing.