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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I know, i don't have any, that is compared to you really not impressive, not at all. Anyhow, i don't trust your facts as you don't present any, you could of course start to link to something for a change.
    With all due respect sir, I can't even sort out that first sentence. You will have to reword that for me to understand your point there, sorry.

    It's fine if you don't trust my facts. You seem to be operating from the idea that I'm here to "win" or "prove you wrong". I'm not. I'm just sharing my views. If you disagree, share yours and maybe a conversation will ensue. If you don't trust my facts, that's ok. Nobody is forcing you to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I didn't call you names. I said you acted stupid. You did so my point stands. One addresses you, the other addresses your behaviour. Learn the difference and stop playing the victim card.

    Prove they are all solvable by an uncorrupt government? I mean, when it doesn't rain in an African country for 3 years, how does not being corrupt solve crop shortages? Hint, it doesn't.
    Dig a well. Build infrastructure. It doesn't rain in Phoenix, yet there are millions of people living there. /shrug

    The reality is, the world has been trying to help African nations for many years, and corruption is the #1 inhibitor of that aid being effective.

  2. #22
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    With all due respect sir, I can't even sort out that first sentence. You will have to reword that for me to understand your point there, sorry.

    It's fine if you don't trust my facts. You seem to be operating from the idea that I'm here to "win" or "prove you wrong". I'm not. I'm just sharing my views. If you disagree, share yours and maybe a conversation will ensue. If you don't trust my facts, that's ok. Nobody is forcing you to.
    Na not worth it. You're right though, they are your facts, nothing more. Everytime you talk in absolutes its just your opinion presented in a way that makes them look like facts.
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    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post

    Dig a well. Build infrastructure. It doesn't rain in Phoenix, yet there are millions of people living there. /shrug
    Phoenix gets its water from a lake on the Colorado River. Not all countries have that luxury. Another dumb post, your basically assuming they can build dams when they don't even have rivers. Also, many of the rivers that are "dammable" run through multiple countries and there are treaties that govern them, wars have been fought over water rights. But yea, herp derp, its all solvable by tackling corruption!

    Just admit you're wrong.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Phoenix gets its water from a lake on the Colorado River. Not all countries have that luxury. Another dumb post, your basically assuming they can build dams when they don't even have rivers. Also, many of the rivers that are "dammable" run through multiple countries and there are treaties that govern them, wars have been fought over water rights. But yea, herp derp, its all solvable by tackling corruption!

    Just admit you're wrong.
    I only admit I'm wrong when I am wrong, sorry. Your argument has not changed my mind. The argument that NOTHING can be done in Africa, is ludicrous. They have water in Africa. The entire continent is not the Sahara Desert. Much of the Middle East is in low rainfall, near desert areas. How is it that they are working it all out? Maybe it's because their governments are not as corrupt. What is your explanation for African nations that DO have a ton of water, yet still suffer from corrupt governments?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I only admit I'm wrong when I am wrong, sorry. Your argument has not changed my mind. The argument that NOTHING can be done in Africa, is ludicrous. They have water in Africa. The entire continent is not the Sahara Desert. Much of the Middle East is in low water, near desert areas. How is it that they are working it all out? Maybe it's because their governments are not as corrupt.
    Or maybe its because they are sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the world and can afford to. I mean, those countries even spend ludicrous amounts of money making indoor ski slopes when its over 100F outside. Oh, and they are also corrupt as fuck, they just have oil money.

    Stop oversimplifying to the point of stupidity. Reducing corruption would help, I'm not denying that, thats not at all what you said though is it?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Or maybe its because they are sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the world and can afford to. I mean, those countries even spend ludicrous amounts of money making indoor ski slopes when its over 100F outside. Oh, and they are also corrupt as fuck, they just have oil money.

    Stop oversimplifying to the point of stupidity. Reducing corruption would help, I'm not denying that, thats not at all what you said though is it?
    You mean, EXACTLY like Africa is? Are you unaware of how much oil drilling is going on in African nations? Are you aware of how many of the world's diamonds come from Africa? Are you aware of how much coal there is in Africa? They are not resource starved, by any stretch of the imagination.

    No amount of money, can overcome corruption. If one guy just takes all the money, and builds nothing, there is no progress. This is the tale of Africa, and it's being played in loop mode.

    Lastly, please do not call me, or my arguments stupid. I have treated you with respect. Please do the same.

  7. #27
    Ha! I knew developmental economics was not a course only used just for knowing models! It depends. Some obvious things like better healthcare, an improved access to education, building much-needed infrastructure (even if its high tech China comes to mind) are obvious ones. Corruption can ruin them as all things. On wages, it depends. Some first world nations just like to fuck over their workers and reduce their wages just to export but to each their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Or maybe its because they are sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the world and can afford to. I mean, those countries even spend ludicrous amounts of money making indoor ski slopes when its over 100F outside. Oh, and they are also corrupt as fuck, they just have oil money.

    Stop oversimplifying to the point of stupidity. Reducing corruption would help, I'm not denying that, thats not at all what you said though is it?
    He is not wrong. Corruption is a pretty big factor on why countries are poor despite the abundance of natural resources and a lot of the problems in Africa could be solved if their leaders gave a fuck about their people instead of acquiring more wealth like investing in simple things as mosquito nets, deworming campaigns, agriculture initiatives and so on. And even when executed, their succes largely depends on corruption. Also, abundance of natural resources can be a curse as it enables this flawed systems instead of having the leaders of these poor nations face them. For example Chavez.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gouky View Post
    Hello,

    Would implementing 15$ minimum wage or liberal attitudes towards crime and drug addiction and other vices benefit the 3rd world?
    You can also add free schooling collage including, healthcare, high end infrastructure ect to the list.

    Yes/Not why?
    Let's rephrase the question.

    Would you, as a third world country citizen, seek to improve the life of people in your country?

    Yes/Why not?

    --

    Because that's the actual question here. The 15$ threshold is incredibly unimportant, and in 100 years will be utterly outdated. It's about strengthening a working class with more buying power. Thus strengthening the economy as a whole.

    You generally have to be a moronic sociopath to think this making people's lives better is a bad idea. Those people exist, of course, but they certainly aren't representing anyone. The eternal question is down to distribution of wealth. Who gets to benefit, who gets to pay for it. An archetypical third world country generally has much bigger problems than low wages. Most people are no-income farmers. The country suffer from a devastating lack of infrastructure (schooling, water, sewage, roads, healthcare etc), and what taxes are made are drained away by corruption. The leaders supposed to fix this situation are openly the topical being moronic sociopaths in question.

    So yeah, you could fix the wage gap issue. It would be unpopular with the rich, the right-wingers, and a subset of the mmo-champions forum posters - and short term it would require much political capital to get such a thing passed. In the long term, it's genuinely a good idea, because you end up with a stronger economy, which improves the lives of everyone. But in a stereotypical country where most people are no-income self-providing farmers, the impact is not major, and it has an opportunity cost to spend that political capital at such a change. The goal is to improve the life for people in the country. You start by improving the bare necessities, and rooting out corruption.

    Third party countries are getting much better at the former and gradually stop looking like the stereotype. Most third world countries have basic infrastructure outside of remote villages these days. Few countries are like Sudan anymore. But the corruption is still rampant, and it'll take a major change of mentality to fix this.
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  9. #29
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Depends on the specific policies.

    You've already got places like India giving serious consideration to systems like basic income, which is jumping ahead of most first world governments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Yup, water shortages, poor education, famine, AIDs, ebola and malaria. All caused by government corruption. You are so myopic it actually hurts to read such stupid. The world isn't that black and white or simple.
    Well, 1, 2, 3, and possibly 4 can be considered to be caused or exacerbated by ineffective governance, and corruption plays a major part in making the government ineffective.

    Dealing with corruption may not be a one-shot solution, but it would definitely help matters.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Depends on the specific policies.

    You've already got places like India giving serious consideration to systems like basic income, which is jumping ahead of most first world governments.



    Well, 1, 2, 3, and possibly 4 can be considered to be caused or exacerbated by ineffective governance, and corruption plays a major part in making the government ineffective.

    Dealing with corruption may not be a one-shot solution, but it would definitely help matters.
    I said that in a later post. The person I was quoting said that removing corruption was the only thing needed. Thats where we disagree.

  11. #31
    No, take the Middle East for example. Foreign policy has practically never worked because it's such a complex place. I daresay we lost the wars in the Bush Jr era!

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